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Old
08-05-2013, 01:52 PM
  #76
TGWL
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Also, I'm pretty sure NYR don't have the room to match unless they buy out Richards
I'm pretty sure we do have room to match as we can go 10% over and then figure out a way to get rid of Pyatt, Boyle, or somebody else we might not need as much as Stepan.

We missed the boat on buying out Richards.

I don't view Fayne as highly as you do. I'd leave as a #4 on some teams, but there's a lot of teams where he'd be playing a #5 bottom pairing role. Devils have a great team system. I think these dman get exposed on other teams.


Last edited by TGWL: 08-05-2013 at 01:57 PM.
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08-05-2013, 01:59 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Vancouver and STL went back and forth.

You really don't think a smaller market team would think twice about throwing an offer sheet at a player on the Leafs or Rangers or Habs considering their budgets?
Considering every team is on a budget, nope. With a salary cap in place, offer sheet revenge is a minor risk and a major nuisance for the team trying to get revenge.

Vancouver and STL exchanged offer sheets over Steve Bernier and David Backes. Don't think either of those were breaking the bank..

Do you think the Rangers would immediately offer-sheet a player to a contract that the other team couldn't match (and the player likely doesn't deserve) just to get revenge? Or do you think they'd more likely weigh the salary cap ramifications and how the player fits into their roster/system? I'm sure they'd love to be stuck with a player they don't necessarily want for way too much money just to stick it to a team..

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08-05-2013, 02:06 PM
  #78
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Yeah, that's what I thought about Fayne but for some reason people on the Sens board keep telling he's 3rd pair and not very good. I think he would stabilize Ottawa's top 4. But no, I didn't think about him being a UFA.
Mark Fayne is an excellent defenseman. No one has ever heard of him so they assume he's fodder but I'd argue he's the 2nd best defenseman on our roster.

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08-05-2013, 02:08 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Mark Fayne is an excellent defenseman. No one has ever heard of him so they assume he's fodder but I'd argue he's the 2nd best defenseman on our roster.
Thank you. That's exactly what I've been telling everyone.

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08-05-2013, 02:20 PM
  #80
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Our defence is just fine with Methot/Karlsson Cowen/Gryba Phillips/Wiercioch Corvo personally would not trade Spezza for 1st + 2nd + Fayne + Karlsson and we can't guarantee that NY wont match they WILL buy out Richards for Stepan only way i can see NY not matching is if its 2 1st's + 2nd + 3rd

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08-05-2013, 02:24 PM
  #81
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This would make the Sens worse.

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08-05-2013, 02:30 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
Considering every team is on a budget, nope. With a salary cap in place, offer sheet revenge is a minor risk and a major nuisance for the team trying to get revenge.

Vancouver and STL exchanged offer sheets over Steve Bernier and David Backes. Don't think either of those were breaking the bank..

Do you think the Rangers would immediately offer-sheet a player to a contract that the other team couldn't match (and the player likely doesn't deserve) just to get revenge? Or do you think they'd more likely weigh the salary cap ramifications and how the player fits into their roster/system? I'm sure they'd love to be stuck with a player they don't necessarily want for way too much money just to stick it to a team..
A budget of 100 million and a budget of 200 million are not the same.

No, but Sather I'm sure wouldn't mind paying a player like Henrique for future production now with a 7 year contract that would of course be hard for the Devils to match or not. Where did I say overpay? You don't have to overpay a player in order to throw a wrench into a teams plans.

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08-05-2013, 02:33 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
So tell me guys, how exactly is this bad for Ottawa?

Stepan + Fayne > Spezza and Gryba


And the Sens get younger.
How drunk do I have to be to believe that nonsense?

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08-05-2013, 02:34 PM
  #84
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The deal without Severson (Spezza, Gryba for Henrique, Fayne and 2nd) is better for the Devils.. but I dunno.

Spezza would be ****ing awesome but I'm not sure the substantial upgrade over Henrique is worth a very underrated Fayne and our highest draft pick next year..
I wouldn't stress over it. The part involving the Ducks isn't really well thought out. We don't need Severson. This is just... 'hey, can we please have our first round pick back?'

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08-05-2013, 02:37 PM
  #85
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I wouldn't stress over it. The part involving the Ducks isn't really well thought out. We don't need Severson. This is just... 'hey, can we please have our first round pick back?'
Not to mention that this deal would in fact cripple the sens whether the op wants to believe it or not. Giving up our top line center for two prospects is a terrible trade. Its not even worth offersheeting stepan being that the rangers would match any offer. My brain hurts just by thinking of this trade.

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08-05-2013, 02:37 PM
  #86
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Really bad for the Sens. The chance of the Rangers not finding a way to much would be close to 0%.

If the cost to get Spezza is just this then I hope the Wings jump in, if we get the out of conference discount we'll move back West.

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08-05-2013, 02:44 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Thank you. That's exactly what I've been telling everyone.
It's always the same thing anyways, when talking about our "no name blueline". That goofball who does the play-by-play for Ottawa (I think it's Potvin) says the same crap each and every time.

Who the **** cares if you're dressing a All-Star blueline? What's important is that they're effective in what they do and the rest is just for show. How often did the Rangers try and build a All-Star team during free agency, only to have their "master plan" backfire?

Fayne is a steady 2nd pairing d-man who's on a cheap contract that no one ever heard of... he must suck ass. What's ironic is that our most known blueliner, who's also our highest blueliner, is without a doubt our worst d-man out of our entire roster heading to camp (Volchenkov).


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08-05-2013, 02:46 PM
  #88
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This trade is not well thought out in my opinion.

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08-05-2013, 02:53 PM
  #89
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I would cry if we made that trade.

I don't want to take these "what if" prospects, when we already have them, and a "what if" offer sheet when its not a guarantee.

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08-05-2013, 02:56 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
A budget of 100 million and a budget of 200 million are not the same.

No, but Sather I'm sure wouldn't mind paying a player like Henrique for future production now with a 7 year contract that would of course be hard for the Devils to match or not. Where did I say overpay? You don't have to overpay a player in order to throw a wrench into a teams plans.
There's this thing called the salary cap.. that's the budget I was talking about. It kinda prohibits teams from acting on a budget of 100 million, let alone 200 million.

You keep thinking about how it would screw with the other team but aren't considering how it would work with the offering team at all. Do the Rangers need a player like Henrique? Does he fit in with the roster? Does he work with the system? Will his cap hit (overpayment or not) hurt the team in the future re: signing players?

Offer sheets rarely happen because its a matter of ridiculous timing. Not only does the RFA have to hit the market but he also has to want to leave his current team for your team, fit in with your roster/system and have a cap hit that will be manageable for your team while disastrous for the other.

Again, I ask where all these revenge offer sheets are? They certainly do exist but you're kidding yourself if you think GMs throw offer sheets for revenge purposes without care for the impact on their own team. How the player fits into your future plans comes first and foremost.. revenge is only talked about on HFBoards.

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08-05-2013, 03:04 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
It's always the same thing anyways, when talking about our "no name blueline". That goofball who does the play-by-play for Ottawa (I think it's Potvin) says the same crap each and every time.

Who the **** cares if you're dressing a All-Star blueline? What's important is that they're effective in what they do and the rest is just for show. How often did the Rangers try and build a All-Star team during free agency, only to have their "master plan" backfire?

Fayne is a steady 2nd pairing d-man who's on a cheap contract that no one ever heard of... he must suck ass. What's ironic is that our most known blueliner, who's also our highest blueliner, is without a doubt our worst d-man out of our entire roster heading to camp (Volchenkov).
Nobody said he sucked ass. People are saying he doesn't add much to this trade. And I'm saying on teams with more of a solid defense, he's playing more of a bottom role. I praise the devils for what they can do as a team.

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08-05-2013, 03:22 PM
  #92
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For any kind of guarantee Ottawa would have to offer sheet Stepan first. To get Stepan they're probably going over $5mil and for several years and maybe substantially over $5 mil and then you'd have to wait out the period for the Rangers to match. Generally in Rangers land it's figured Stepan is going to sign for several years somewhere in the $5 mil range. So to get him to move a team is probably going to have to overpay and to a point where the Rangers wouldn't match. Good luck with that.

Then turn around and trade Spezza?--for the package outlined by the threadstarter? I just don't know. Ottawa fans would certainly be confused. Why go to all this trouble just to try to make the New Jersey Devils a better team when you're not substantially making your own team better (and acting like a tool (or fool) for LL pissing off the Rangers management)--maybe even worse? I mean WTF! That's what I'd be thinking if I were a Senators fan.


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08-05-2013, 03:26 PM
  #93
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This trade is brutal for Ottawa

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08-05-2013, 03:26 PM
  #94
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For any kind of guarantee Ottawa would have to offer sheet Stepan first. To get Stepan they're probably going over $5mil and for several years and maybe substantially over $5 mil and then you'd have to wait out the period for the Rangers to match. Generally in Rangers land it's figured Stepan is going to sign for several years somewhere in the $5 mil range. So to get him to move a team is probably going to have to overpay and to a point where the Rangers wouldn't match. Good luck with that.

Then turn around and trade Spezza?--for the package outlined by the threadstarter? I just don't know. Ottawa fans would certainly be confused. Why go to all this trouble just to try to make the New Jersey Devils a better team when you're not substantially making your own team better--maybe even worse? I mean WTF! That's what I'd be thinking if I were a Senators fan.
Trust me, every sens fan is thinking that. Just go to the senators forum and click on the offseason thread.

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08-05-2013, 03:27 PM
  #95
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Nobody said he sucked ass. People are saying he doesn't add much to this trade. And I'm saying on teams with more of a solid defense, he's playing more of a bottom role. I praise the devils for what they can do as a team.
That's the thing... Fayne IS solid, he's just flying under the radar that is called New Jersey Devils.

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08-05-2013, 03:33 PM
  #96
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Spezza >> Stepan

so no thanks

NOTE:
Fayne is decent but not needed
we have enough prospects honestly

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08-05-2013, 03:34 PM
  #97
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Mandy, with all due respect from a fellow Sens fan, you are part of the reason Jason Spezza is criminally underrated around the league. If you think Stepan is even on the same planet as Spezza in terms of talent or impact, you're out to lunch. Stepan is not a #1 center, nor is he a #1 center on a contender. Turris isn't either; he's a #2.

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08-05-2013, 03:34 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
For any kind of guarantee Ottawa would have to offer sheet Stepan first. To get Stepan they're probably going over $5mil and for several years and maybe substantially over $5 mil and then you'd have to wait out the period for the Rangers to match. Generally in Rangers land it's figured Stepan is going to sign for several years somewhere in the $5 mil range. So to get him to move a team is probably going to have to overpay and to a point where the Rangers wouldn't match. Good luck with that.

Then turn around and trade Spezza?--for the package outlined by the threadstarter? I just don't know. Ottawa fans would certainly be confused. Why go to all this trouble just to try to make the New Jersey Devils a better team when you're not substantially making your own team better (and acting like a tool (or fool) for LL pissing off the Rangers management)--maybe even worse? I mean WTF! That's what I'd be thinking if I were a Senators fan.
What the hell are you going on about

Let's go over this again.

Even if revenge was in the cards.. why is Sather mad at Lou for the Senators offer sheeting one of his players?

May as well be mad at Anaheim also I guess.. he should just offer sheet all the RFAs!! In fact, since the OP proposed this trade, Sather should go out and try to buy the OP's employer and get him fired.. right?

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08-05-2013, 04:19 PM
  #99
eco's bones
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What the hell are you going on about

Let's go over this again.

Even if revenge was in the cards.. why is Sather mad at Lou for the Senators offer sheeting one of his players?

May as well be mad at Anaheim also I guess.. he should just offer sheet all the RFAs!! In fact, since the OP proposed this trade, Sather should go out and try to buy the OP's employer and get him fired.. right?
Why would the Ottawa GM go to all the trouble of making the New Jersey Devils a much better team while at the same time not making his own team substantially better (that's 'if' he can even get Stepan to sign on board) while at the same time pissing off the Rangers?--more than less acting like he's a tool for the Devils GM? The only team here that is substantially upgraded for next season is your team--unless you think that is that Stepan is a big upgrade over Spezza. I like Stepan a lot. BTW he's as good defensively as Zajac and a lot better offensively--younger too--yet I wouldn't call him a legit 1st line center--at least not yet. Spezza OTOH I think I would.


Last edited by Kane One: 08-05-2013 at 04:38 PM. Reason: removed flaming
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Old
08-05-2013, 04:29 PM
  #100
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Here's another thing the threadstarter hasn't mentioned. A lot of Devils fans seem to like Fayne a lot but if memory serves me right he was a healthy scratch numerous times last year so saying he's a top 4 guy--I just don't know.

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