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Old
08-05-2013, 10:27 AM
  #176
RangerBoy
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The math can still work. I demonstrated how you could fit a roster under a $68m cap for next season, including Girardi getting $5.5m and Callahan getting $5.7m, on the first page in this thread.

The real question is whether or not we can keep our RFAs in line and retain the UFAs, but a lot of that is going to depend on how players play. If DZ establishes himself as a top PP player and maintains his decent level at even strength, he'll get more than the $3.5m I put down. John Moore and Derick Brassard are other possibilities of players who might earn bigger raises than I've given them. However, it's probably only off by about $500k-$1m for each one if they exceed my expectations. If the cap gets over $70m, we could still end up with a complete roster and sign Girardi at $5.5m.

All of that being said, we've known for a while now that they aren't going to be able to keep all of our defensemen indefinitely. Just imagine how much more difficult this problem would be if we hadn't traded Tyutin. All I know is that, if the choice is between giving Girardi $5.5m and having to deal Staal, I'd much rather do that than lose Girardi for nothing and keep Staal, even though I think Staal is a better defenseman.
I really like Girardi. I thought his 2010 contract was an excellent contract for the Rangers. Most of the people here thought it was ridiculous. Girardi is not worth $5M-$5.5M because Calgary gave Wideman crazy money or TB gave Carle $5.5M. Those contracts were mistakes from the moment they were announced. Even Bouwmeester at $5.4M. He took a paycut from his current contract. Don't repeat other teams mistakes. Tyutin has an AAV of $4.5M. Girardi is worth a deal in that range.

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08-05-2013, 10:40 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
I really like Girardi. I thought his 2010 contract was an excellent contract for the Rangers. Most of the people here thought it was ridiculous. Girardi is not worth $5M-$5.5M because Calgary gave Wideman crazy money or TB gave Carle $5.5M. Those contracts were mistakes from the moment they were announced. Even Bouwmeester at $5.4M. He took a paycut from his current contract. Don't repeat other teams mistakes. Tyutin has an AAV of $4.5M. Girardi is worth a deal in that range.
I would prefer to keep Girardi in that range, for sure. Just don't know that it will be possible and I'd prefer to keep him given the alternative. Another really good comparable for him is Robyn Regehr, who got a $4m contract on a $56.7m cap, which inflates to about $5m on a $70m cap. Of course, Regehr was also 28 at the time. I'm willing to give Girardi an extra $500k if we have to.

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08-05-2013, 10:40 AM
  #178
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Edler signed a 6 year extension for $30M to avoid group III. He could have gotten much more as a free agent. He took less to stay in VAN.

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08-05-2013, 10:41 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
What do you think Lundqvist will get?
If he wants an 8 year deal he should get exactly what he's getting now...or perhaps a slight bump to 7M or at most 7.25M. If he wants 9M it's got to be for a 5 year deal max. We can't be on the hook paying a 39 year old goalie 9M/year. He's going to be 32.5 years old when his new contract begins, so we have to be practical with what kind of performance we should expect as he starts getting up there.

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Old
08-05-2013, 03:41 PM
  #180
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Yeah, but Mike Green is also an example of how D's really isn't that talented anymore. He is seen as a top 3-5 D in terms of raw talent (but held lower in other areas).

But he just isn't that talented. If you look at explosiveness, stickhandling, speed etc he is way behind a Kovalchuk.

Karlsson is very talented, I would hold him a little notch above Zubov in Zubov's prime. Doughty in raw talent is up there with Blake/Pronger/Bourque. I think DD is a helluva gifted D. Subban is also very talented. But neither Subban nor DD are offensive wiz's.
Can't compare Green to Kovy, we're talking about offensive defenceman and the fact that they get bashed because they are less than stellar defensively.

That was a MAJOR knock on Leetch when he first arrived on the scene and into the 90's. He was knocked for his defensive game pre and post cup win. While he was never as bad as the critics alluded to, he was never a defensive standout.

My point is that until we get away from knocking guys that are less than stellar defensively, we are always going to have the problem of having too few real offensive defenceman such as Karlsson.

These guys need to be celebrated for what they CAN do and not frowned upon for what they cannot do.

Karlsson is not a great defensive defenceman, but he's not that bad either.

Mike Green before the injury bug decided to mess with him was similar. Before the groin issue, Mike Green was a fabulous skater (not Karlsson, but good regardless), had a cannon of a shot, offensive hockey IQ was sky high.

Left alot to be desired in the defensive zone, but you don't score 68 goals as a defenceman over a 3 year period by being a decent offensive defenceman.

I'd love to get an offensive defenceman in here that had the ability to post 50+ points and have the only off-set be that he's not that great defensively.

Would make the attack that much more dangerous.

I wonder who could fit that description on the Rangers now.

hmmmmm


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Old
08-05-2013, 05:38 PM
  #181
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Stu Bickel

I really thought we should've taken Fowler or at least Tarasenko instead of McIlrath. Never liked that pick.

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08-05-2013, 05:47 PM
  #182
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So i havent been keeping up with team news but what the hell is taking so long to resign stepan? Isn't he the last one left after MZA?

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Old
08-05-2013, 08:25 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Can't compare Green to Kovy, we're talking about offensive defenceman and the fact that they get bashed because they are less than stellar defensively.

That was a MAJOR knock on Leetch when he first arrived on the scene and into the 90's. He was knocked for his defensive game pre and post cup win. While he was never as bad as the critics alluded to, he was never a defensive standout.

My point is that until we get away from knocking guys that are less than stellar defensively, we are always going to have the problem of having too few real offensive defenceman such as Karlsson.

These guys need to be celebrated for what they CAN do and not frowned upon for what they cannot do.

Karlsson is not a great defensive defenceman, but he's not that bad either.

Mike Green before the injury bug decided to mess with him was similar. Before the groin issue, Mike Green was a fabulous skater (not Karlsson, but good regardless), had a cannon of a shot, offensive hockey IQ was sky high.

Left alot to be desired in the defensive zone, but you don't score 68 goals as a defenceman over a 3 year period by being a decent offensive defenceman.

I'd love to get an offensive defenceman in here that had the ability to post 50+ points and have the only off-set be that he's not that great defensively.

Would make the attack that much more dangerous.

I wonder who could fit that description on the Rangers now.

hmmmmm

That's because they are still referred to as DEFENCEman. The game has evolved well past that term.

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08-05-2013, 11:01 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by FromTheSide View Post
So i havent been keeping up with team news but what the hell is taking so long to resign stepan? Isn't he the last one left after MZA?
stepan is insulted by the rangers choosing pouliot, mashinter, moore, hags and zucc over him and is no demanding a 1 year $8 million contract and will walk next year no matter what the organization does. teflon gm strikes again.

seriously though no one seems to know much. its mostly speculation at this point.

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Old
08-05-2013, 11:17 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by nsvoyageurs View Post
If you watch games on YouTube from the 1980's and compare them to what's played now, the difference is beyond comprehension. Back then, the players look like they are skating in slow motion. The goals goalies gave up back then; whoa, holy bleep. If a goalie gave up those kinds of goals now, he'd be sent to a league so far down on the totem pole, no one would ever be able to find them again.

In some ways, the play now is better than then, but in other ways, it was better then. I hate that everything now is so so structured that there is little creativity/spontaneity. The players are more skilled now, but with the tight checking systems played now, you don't get to see it. The skill level is on a more even level now than back in the 1980's. Everyone is fast, strong, big, etc.; the offensive players are good at what they do, but so are the defensive players, evening up the skill level. You can blame the systems for part of this.
Agreed.

There was a huge skill gap back then between not just teams, but the top line versus the rest of the team. And yes, that awful goaltending (although that equipment back then getting waterlogged and low visibility masks, etc, didn't exactly help, either) was comical.

Not to mention, what would happen today if we have those kind of line brawls and dirty, dirty play....or something a la Milbury in the stands whacking that poor sap with his shoe...

The game today is so fast and exciting...but I would dearly love to see that creativity of yesteryear. The game is simply being "overcoached". It's a game of mistakes...and no one is making mistakes.

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Old
08-06-2013, 01:36 AM
  #186
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In my opinion.. as far as our UFAs go for next year..

Lundqvist will be paid as the highest Ranger as well as the highest goalie in the NHL (8M)

Callahan's contract will be right around what Brown got (maybe not years, but money). 5.8M, maybe he gives us a slight discount in the 5.5 range.

Girardi I think comes in at about 4.5M similar to guys like Regehr, Tyutin, etc. He just doesn't put up enough points to justify 5M+

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08-06-2013, 02:22 AM
  #187
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Hank shouldn't get anything more than $7.5M, Cally and G stay the same, and Brass/DZ's hits depend on their play next year. Done.
It's hard to value.

One could think that around 7m per for the absolute last years would be fair if nothing else and bring down the avg.

But, the best paid players in this league hasn't made 9m per in a long time. They have made 12m per. Or even 20+m per. Early in the contract. Then have the aav been lowered by funny years at the end.

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08-06-2013, 07:10 AM
  #188
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So i havent been keeping up with team news but what the hell is taking so long to resign stepan? Isn't he the last one left after MZA?
It's very common for non-arb RFAs to take a long time to sign. Look around there league. Kadri isn't signed yet. Petro isn't signed yet. Hodgson, Rundblad, Cowen.

Neither side is under any pressure to get a deal done quickly. It will get done. No worries.

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08-06-2013, 07:25 AM
  #189
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Agreed.

There was a huge skill gap back then between not just teams, but the top line versus the rest of the team. And yes, that awful goaltending (although that equipment back then getting waterlogged and low visibility masks, etc, didn't exactly help, either) was comical.

Not to mention, what would happen today if we have those kind of line brawls and dirty, dirty play....or something a la Milbury in the stands whacking that poor sap with his shoe...

The game today is so fast and exciting...but I would dearly love to see that creativity of yesteryear. The game is simply being "overcoached". It's a game of mistakes...and no one is making mistakes.
I agree with you that today's game is overcoached; it's WAY overcoached. There is too much structure, and coaches are control freaks. They should just let the players play, show what they do best. It seems the only way scoring chances are created now is because of defensive mistakes. I also agree that the equipment the goalies had back then were almost crude compared to today; but I think there's a way they can have similar equipment to that today and still be kept "safe" and protected from major injury, outside of minor bumps and bruises.

If the players today wore the same equipment now they wore then, the game would be safer as they wouldn't be using their equipment as weapons. But players now are so much bigger, stronger and faster, I'm not sure how much difference that would make. The players are in so much better shape now than then; back then players used training camp to get into shape (part of that was some spend their offseasons running around partying), now they show up in camp already in shape.

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08-06-2013, 08:22 AM
  #190
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teflon gm strikes again.
Woah woah woah...watch how you use that nickname here. It'll get you yelled at

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08-06-2013, 09:44 AM
  #191
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The players without arbitration rights are the toughest contracts. Unless there is an offer sheet,the player has little or no leverage. Can't file or arbitration and isn't eligible to walk to another team. The Rangers have the money to give Stepan a 2 year bridge contract right now. Subtract $600,000 for Johnson. The Rangers aren't carrying 8 D. Camp begins 5 weeks from tomorrow. Maybe both sides are waiting for the Rangers to clear some money to give Stepan a longer term than 2 years or Stepan's agent wants more in a 2 year contract. Couture got 2 yrs and $5.75M in 2012. Couture had 63 goals and 121 points in first 2 full NHL seaons before signing the 2 year deal. $2.875M. I really like Stepan but Couture is a better player. Its not an old contract. It was signed last summer. Less than that for Stepan.

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08-06-2013, 10:04 AM
  #192
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In my opinion.. as far as our UFAs go for next year..

Lundqvist will be paid as the highest Ranger as well as the highest goalie in the NHL (8M)

Callahan's contract will be right around what Brown got (maybe not years, but money). 5.8M, maybe he gives us a slight discount in the 5.5 range.

Girardi I think comes in at about 4.5M similar to guys like Regehr, Tyutin, etc. He just doesn't put up enough points to justify 5M+

I really hope that's not true, I like Callahan but I think brown brings a little more

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08-06-2013, 10:09 AM
  #193
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In my opinion.. as far as our UFAs go for next year..

Lundqvist will be paid as the highest Ranger as well as the highest goalie in the NHL (8M)

Callahan's contract will be right around what Brown got (maybe not years, but money). 5.8M, maybe he gives us a slight discount in the 5.5 range.

Girardi I think comes in at about 4.5M similar to guys like Regehr, Tyutin, etc. He just doesn't put up enough points to justify 5M+
I cant agree on the Callahan front. I just dont think hes worth that much. I think something like 6/30 is more than fair for him. We should pay him for what he is, a gritty forward capable of 60 points, but has never gotten there due to injuries, etc.

He should not be paid for intangibles because, with each passing year, its quite clear that his leadership skills do not extend to off the ice.

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08-06-2013, 10:25 AM
  #194
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@NYRangers: New #NYR Numbers: @mooredom #28, @JuicerFalk #44, Aaron Johnson #47, Benoit Pouliot #67.
Poor Emi and JT

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Old
08-06-2013, 10:40 AM
  #195
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Miller wore #10 in the AHL and #12 in Plymouth. Both of those numbers are available. Falk wore #44 in Minnesota. Moore wore #18 with the Rangers.

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08-06-2013, 10:43 AM
  #196
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From: @mooredom
Sent: Aug 6, 2013 11:37a

I'll hit @TheGarden ice On Oct. 28 for home opener with @NYRangers for the 1st time since 2006. That night is also Katie's birthday. #28

sent via Twitter for iPhone
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/mooredom/status/364772190111019008

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08-06-2013, 10:44 AM
  #197
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Miller wore #10 in the AHL and #12 in Plymouth. Both of those numbers are available. Falk wore #44 in Minnesota. Moore wore #18 with the Rangers.
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@mooredom: I wore #28 my first @NHL games in @NYRangers blue, and more importantly, it's my wife's birthdate. #28
Was 28 not his set # or did he change?

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08-06-2013, 10:49 AM
  #198
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https://twitter.com/NYRangers/status/364771214973087746
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@spobri: @NYRangers if Johnson's 47 what's that change Miller's # too? 10 #NYR

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08-06-2013, 10:50 AM
  #199
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Was 28 not his set # or did he change?
28 was his 2003-04 number, when he played 5 games. He changed to 18 for his first full season.

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08-06-2013, 10:54 AM
  #200
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The Hainsey headlines made me think of this: If you trade Del Zotto for a center and sign Hainsey, this team is better, no?

Not the perfect solution, depends on the center coming back.

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