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Rochester Amerks / Minors Thread 2013

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Old
08-05-2013, 11:38 AM
  #226
gallagt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnish Gordon View Post
I'm no expert on the CBA, but doesn't this apply to Ristolainen:

8.7. Age 18 and 19 Players.

(a) During the first two seasons next succeeding the draft
of an age 18 player, the Club he signs a contract with must first
offer him to the club from which he was claimed before it may
assign him out of the NHL.

http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/cba_agreement8.asp
That's a very dated version (mid 90s) of the cba if I'm not mistaken.

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08-05-2013, 11:56 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
I'd say the following line-up could work:

Tropp - Zigomanis - Armia
Larsson - Girgensons - Tardif
Adam - Ellis - Varone
Schaller - Catenacci - Sundher
*** Roy, Parker, Jacobs, Szydlowski, Schofield/Legault?

McNabb - Ristolainen (or a send-down, possibly Sulzer)
Bagnall - Ruhwedel
Crawford - MacKenzie
***Gauthier-Leduc, Lepkowski

Hackett
Makarov
***Knapp, Lieuwen

Tropp would have to be assigned on a conditioning stint, don't think that they'd want to subject him to Waivers. At least one of the Forwards in this line-up could be in the NHL to start the season as well.

That's a pretty sweet line-up if you ask me, with a lot of depth at Forward, something we've been sorely missing in the recent past, and quite some experience throughout the line-up. Only thing that's still missing at the moment is a tough-guy up front, I could see them looking for another Tarnasky-type of player. Maybe McCormick could fill this role, but iirc Regier has said that he doesn't expect him to be in the AHL next season.
I don't think teams are going to be claiming Tropp. Every organization has a player like him. He's played only a handful of pro games in the last year and suffered a major knee injury.

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08-05-2013, 12:06 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
I don't think teams are going to be claiming Tropp. Every organization has a player like him. He's played only a handful of pro games in the last year and suffered a major knee injury.
This is exactly what people said about Brennan or Gragnani too, and in the end we even got something for these two guys via trade (even though Gragnani only was a throw in, I know). And Forwards get claimed more frequently than Defensemen as well...

I'm not saying that I'm sure that Tropp will be claimed, but I think we'd be better off not risking it altogether. A conditioning stint to start the year shouldn't be a problem, and then we can re-evaluate his status after he is back in pro hockey rhythm. Or am I missing something about the rules for a conditioning sting?

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08-05-2013, 12:06 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
That's a very dated version (mid 90s) of the cba if I'm not mistaken.
The same paragraph can be found here, this is definitely the new CBA:
http://cdn.agilitycms.com/nhlpacom/P...A_2013_CBA.pdf


Last edited by Finnish Gordon: 08-05-2013 at 12:16 PM.
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Old
08-05-2013, 12:15 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
This is exactly what people said about Brennan or Gragnani too, and in the end we even got something for these two guys via trade (even though Gragnani only was a throw in, I know). And Forwards get claimed more frequently than Defensemen as well...

I'm not saying that I'm sure that Tropp will be claimed, but I think we'd be better off not risking it altogether. A conditioning stint to start the year shouldn't be a problem, and then we can re-evaluate his status after he is back in pro hockey rhythm. Or am I missing something about the rules for a conditioning sting?
I don't know, every team deals with these risks year in and year out. If he makes the team, then he makes it. But if he doesn't he'll be waived. Conditioning stint would be a very short term solution.

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08-05-2013, 12:16 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
This is exactly what people said about Brennan or Gragnani too, and in the end we even got something for these two guys via trade (even though Gragnani only was a throw in, I know). And Forwards get claimed more frequently than Defensemen as well...

I'm not saying that I'm sure that Tropp will be claimed, but I think we'd be better off not risking it altogether. A conditioning stint to start the year shouldn't be a problem, and then we can re-evaluate his status after he is back in pro hockey rhythm. Or am I missing something about the rules for a conditioning sting?
I agree with you.

Regier hates losing assets for nothing. I don't think he will risk putting Tropp on waivers. We will never know if someone would claim him (unless someone trades for him like Brennan).

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08-05-2013, 12:19 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnish Gordon View Post
The same paragraph can be found here, this is definitely the new CBA:
http://cdn.agilitycms.com/nhlpacom/P...A_2013_CBA.pdf
The way this paragraph is phrased makes it sound like it isn't referring to AHL-assignments, but assignments outside of NA pro hockey. So the Sabres couldn't just try to assign Ristolainen to a rival team like Assat or some team in Sweden or the KHL without talking with Turku first. This is just how I interpret it though...

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08-05-2013, 12:21 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
I don't know, every team deals with these risks year in and year out. If he makes the team, then he makes it. But if he doesn't he'll be waived. Conditioning stint would be a very short term solution.
How long do conditioning stints usually list? Is let's say 10-15 games a possibility or would this already be too much?

I would just hate subjecting Tropp to Waivers, because I still think that he can be a pretty good 3rd liner who can even be used in the Top-6 from time to time in the NHL.

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08-05-2013, 12:32 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
How long do conditioning stints usually list? Is let's say 10-15 games a possibility or would this already be too much?

I would just hate subjecting Tropp to Waivers, because I still think that he can be a pretty good 3rd liner who can even be used in the Top-6 from time to time in the NHL.
I think the assignment is no longer than 14 days and you need player consent.

I know other teams used this last season, but I don't recall the Sabres using this much at all for a few years. They used to do this more often (even HOF'er Grant Fuhr played 5 games for the Amerks).

Who was the last player the Sabres put on a conditioning assignment?

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08-05-2013, 12:34 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
How long do conditioning stints usually list? Is let's say 10-15 games a possibility or would this already be too much?

I would just hate subjecting Tropp to Waivers, because I still think that he can be a pretty good 3rd liner who can even be used in the Top-6 from time to time in the NHL.
A week or two, at most, for conditioning. When you look at the numbers, players getting claimed on waivers is extremely rare. It really becomes an overblown issue every year, in my opinion. Especially in September/October. Players are healthy and there are very few open roster spots. Waivers become more of an issue during the season when injuries mount.

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08-05-2013, 12:35 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
The way this paragraph is phrased makes it sound like it isn't referring to AHL-assignments, but assignments outside of NA pro hockey. So the Sabres couldn't just try to assign Ristolainen to a rival team like Assat or some team in Sweden or the KHL without talking with Turku first. This is just how I interpret it though...
You might be right. It's just peculiar that both Ristolainen and Barkov have explicitly stated that they can not be assigned to AHL. Confusion remains.

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08-05-2013, 12:40 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
I think the assignment is no longer than 14 days and you need player consent.

I know other teams used this last season, but I don't recall the Sabres using this much at all for a few years. They used to do this more often (even HOF'er Grant Fuhr played 5 games for the Amerks).

Who was the last player the Sabres put on a conditioning assignment?
I remember them doing it with Lalime, I think it was for two games. Don't know if there has been anyone after him...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
A week or two, at most, for conditioning. When you look at the numbers, players getting claimed on waivers is extremely rare. It really becomes an overblown issue every year, in my opinion. Especially in September/October. Players are healthy and there are very few open roster spots. Waivers become more of an issue during the season when injuries mount.
Well it's still more of a risk than I'd be willing to take, but looks like you just have a different opinion, which is fine...

Sorry for the triple post... @sabrefan27 and the other Amerks fans, what would your expected line-up look like?


Last edited by Chainshot: 08-05-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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Old
08-05-2013, 07:12 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
I remember them doing it with Lalime, I think it was for two games. Don't know if there has been anyone after him...



Well it's still more of a risk than I'd be willing to take, but looks like you just have a different opinion, which is fine...

Sorry for the triple post... @sabrefan27 and the other Amerks fans, what would your expected line-up look like?
Tough to guess at this point:

Tropp - Zigomanis - Tardif
Catenacci - Larsson - Armia
Adam - Girgensons - Ellis
Sundher - Varone - Roy

McNabb - Ristolainen
Bagnall - Ruhwedel
Crawford - Mackenzie
JGG
Lepkowski

Hackett
Makarov

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08-05-2013, 10:44 PM
  #239
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Larsson-Girgensons-Tardif
Adam-Zigomanis-Armia
Catenacci-Ellis-Tropp
Sundher-Varone-Roy

McNabb-Ristolainen
Bagnall-Ruhwedel
Crawford-MacKenzie
Lepkowski-JGL

Hackett
Knapp


They will sign an enforcer so Roy/Sundher will be a healthy scratch likely to start. I wonder if Legault is resigned to an AHL deal as well.

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Old
08-06-2013, 01:33 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnish Gordon View Post
You might be right. It's just peculiar that both Ristolainen and Barkov have explicitly stated that they can not be assigned to AHL. Confusion remains.
There's no NHL-IIHF transfer agreement. Ristolainen and Barkov are under contract by their teams in Finland. I assume that the only out clause in their contracts is for play in the NHL. The NHL is bound to honor contracts signed with other leagues. NHL teams are prohibited from individually negotiating player transfers so fans can forget about Pegula making TPS Turpo an offer they can't refuse.

When they do get around to ratifying a new transfer agreement I suspect it will have the same AHL eligibility restrictions as the CHL agreement.

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08-06-2013, 07:21 AM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Larsson-Girgensons-Tardif
Adam-Zigomanis-Armia
Catenacci-Ellis-Tropp
Sundher-Varone-Roy

McNabb-Ristolainen
Bagnall-Ruhwedel
Crawford-MacKenzie
Lepkowski-JGL

Hackett
Knapp


They will sign an enforcer so Roy/Sundher will be a healthy scratch likely to start. I wonder if Legault is resigned to an AHL deal as well.
I think Larsson starts the year in Buffalo.

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08-06-2013, 07:37 AM
  #242
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I think Larsson starts the year in Buffalo.
Me too. And if he doesn't, he is playing C in Rochester.

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08-06-2013, 07:42 AM
  #243
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Me too. And if he doesn't, he is playing C in Rochester.
Why? And who does he make the team over? For anyone who watched him in Rochester, he was less than spectacular.

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08-06-2013, 08:16 AM
  #244
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I really think it will take an injury or a trade for a one of the young prospects (Larsson, Armia) to make the team.

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08-06-2013, 09:06 AM
  #245
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Yeah I wonder why so many people seem to think that Larsson is almost a lock to start in the NHL. We have 12 Forwards already and with Buffalo likely carrying 8 Defensemen on their roster there is only room for one other. And I wouldn't be surprised if we signed another UFA-Forward, be it a depth veteran to lead the young guys or a higher profile guy like Brunner. And even if we don't what makes you so sure that Larsson gets the last spot over people like Tropp, Armia or maybe even Tardif? I think Larsson has to prove a lot in training camp if he wants to be on the NHL-roster to start the year.

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08-06-2013, 11:53 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
Yeah I wonder why so many people seem to think that Larsson is almost a lock to start in the NHL. We have 12 Forwards already and with Buffalo likely carrying 8 Defensemen on their roster there is only room for one other. And I wouldn't be surprised if we signed another UFA-Forward, be it a depth veteran to lead the young guys or a higher profile guy like Brunner. And even if we don't what makes you so sure that Larsson gets the last spot over people like Tropp, Armia or maybe even Tardif? I think Larsson has to prove a lot in training camp if he wants to be on the NHL-roster to start the year.
You're trying awfully hard to dismiss the idea of Larsson making the team. Do you have some sort of issue with him?

1) Why are we going to carry 8 dmen? And even if we did, why would this prevent Larsson from making the team? Not only will we carry 8 dmen but we are also going to sign a UFA forward to take the last spot as well.

2) Why would Larsson get the spot of Tropp or Armia? Because the likely opening is a bottom 6 center spot and they aren't centers. Armia and Tropp's only realistic shot at making the team is if Vanek gets traded . I don't see how they make it otherwise with Stafford, Leino, Flynn, Kaleta in the mix for the RW spots. On the LW its Vanek, Ennis, Ott, Foligno, Larsson in the mix and even Leino here as well.

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08-06-2013, 11:56 AM
  #247
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How many people have even watched Larsson? He's not going to make the team just because he's an able bodied center. He needs to be good enough. I didn't see anything resembling an NHL player in Rochester. Maybe it was a small sample size, maybe he comes to camp much better.

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08-06-2013, 12:12 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
How many people have even watched Larsson? He's not going to make the team just because he's an able bodied center. He needs to be good enough. I didn't see anything resembling an NHL player in Rochester. Maybe it was a small sample size, maybe he comes to camp much better.
I've watched him and I think he is ready to make the jump. I think you and others that are so hard on the idea of him making the team need to remember he is likely to center the 4th line. A role that is developmental for a player like Larsson who has a higher ceiling. Obviously if he isn't ready he won't be on the roster. Not really sure what the point is in saying that. You and a few others are acting as if folks are lobbying for him to center our top line or a top 6 line. I fully anticipate Porter to resume his role from last year as the 3rd line center whose line does the defensive heavy lift. That would allow a kid like Larsson to ease his way into the NHL as the 4th line center.

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08-06-2013, 12:15 PM
  #249
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I've watched him and I think he is ready to make the jump. I think you and others that are so hard on the idea of him making the team need to remember he is likely to center the 4th line. A role that is developmental for a player like Larsson who has a higher ceiling. Obviously if he isn't ready he won't be on the roster. Not really sure what the point is in saying that. You and a few others are acting as if folks are lobbying for him to center our top line or a top 6 line. I fully anticipate Porter to resume his role from last year as the 3rd line center whose line does the defensive heavy lift. That would allow a kid like Larsson to ease his way into the NHL as the 4th line center.
I'm just confused as to why so many people are convinced he'll make the team. Based on what? I think he can make it if he comes to camp and plays extremely well. But I also don't think they'll give him limited 4th minute time. Better off with him playing a top 6 role in Rochester.

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08-06-2013, 12:21 PM
  #250
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I'm just confused as to why so many people are convinced he'll make the team. Based on what? I think he can make it if he comes to camp and plays extremely well.
I'm guessing its due to the fact that most think he is NHL ready and plays a position where we currently only have 3 players for 4 spots. I really don't think for many its more complex than that.


Quote:
But I also don't think they'll give him limited 4th minute time. Better off with him playing a top 6 role in Rochester.

So for you this is about Rochester not really whats best for the Sabres or Larsson.

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