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08-06-2013, 12:29 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm guessing its due to the fact that most think he is NHL ready and plays a position where we currently only have 3 players for 4 spots. I really don't think for many its more complex than that.





So for you this is about Rochester not really whats best for the Sabres or Larsson.
Disagree. SF is right, Larsson on the 4th line is not what is best for his development. He played wing with the Amerks at the end of last year and had chemistry with ZG. So at the beginning of the year I see Cassidy putting them together.

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08-06-2013, 12:35 PM
  #252
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Disagree. SF is right, Larsson on the 4th line is not what is best for his development. He played wing with the Amerks at the end of last year and had chemistry with ZG. So at the beginning of the year I see Cassidy putting them together.
Why is that exactly? How is learning to play a defensive game at the NHL level on the 4th line a bad thing for him? I'm not saying playing in Rochester would be bad for him. It wouldn't be. But being on the 4th line in the NHL, getting worked onto the PK units and possibly usurping Porter as the season progresses are all possibilities and none seem bad for Larsson. If we were taking about Grigs and his one dimensional game I could see your argument. But Larsson is a two way center/wing that could very much learn things in a bottom 6 role.



Btw he centered Girgs in the playoffs. Lets not start pretending he doesn't play the position.

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08-06-2013, 12:41 PM
  #253
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Why is that exactly? How is learning to play a defensive game at the NHL level on the 4th line a bad thing for him? I'm not saying playing in Rochester would be bad for him. It wouldn't be. But being on the 4th line in the NHL, getting worked onto the PK units and possibly usurping Porter as the season progresses are all possibilities and none seem bad for Larsson. If we were taking about Grigs and his one dimensional game I could see your argument. But Larsson is a two way center/wing that could very much learn things in a bottom 6 role.



Btw he centered Girgs in the playoffs. Lets not start pretending he doesn't play the position.
Because playing 6 minutes a night is worse for his development compared to 15 or 16 minutes while playing the PP and PK and in all different game situations.

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08-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #254
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Because playing 6 minutes a night is worse for his development compared to 15 or 16 minutes while playing the PP and PK and in all different game situations.
He's not going to play 6 mins a night and to argue he will is pretty absurd.


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08-06-2013, 01:15 PM
  #255
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So SF27, your stance is unless a player can get the same amount of ice time and role in the NHL as they can in the AHL they won't benefit or develop playing in the NHL? Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems to be your argument.

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08-06-2013, 01:25 PM
  #256
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Does Cat have a shot at a top 9 center spot?

Also, how did he look in his very brief stint late last year?

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08-06-2013, 01:30 PM
  #257
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Does Cat have a shot at a top 9 center spot?

Also, how did he look in his very brief stint late last year?
I think it's very safe to say that he has a "shot". Problem is that he has to beat out Girgensons, Ellis, Zigomanis and Varone who I believe are all expected to play center.

Catenacci was very good in the 2 games I watched, that might have been all he played in... And I don't think he saw very much ice time in either game. He looked good in his ice-time though, quick, around the puck a lot and full of energy.

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08-06-2013, 01:31 PM
  #258
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So SF27, your stance is unless a player can get the same amount of ice time and role in the NHL as they can in the AHL they won't benefit or develop playing in the NHL? Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems to be your argument.
No, that's way too black and white. And I was more making the argument of what I think Sabres management will be thinking. If the choices are 4th line minutes NHL, or 1st line minutes AHL I think they'd rather have the latter.

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08-06-2013, 04:28 PM
  #259
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You're trying awfully hard to dismiss the idea of Larsson making the team. Do you have some sort of issue with him?

1) Why are we going to carry 8 dmen? And even if we did, why would this prevent Larsson from making the team? Not only will we carry 8 dmen but we are also going to sign a UFA forward to take the last spot as well.

2) Why would Larsson get the spot of Tropp or Armia? Because the likely opening is a bottom 6 center spot and they aren't centers. Armia and Tropp's only realistic shot at making the team is if Vanek gets traded . I don't see how they make it otherwise with Stafford, Leino, Flynn, Kaleta in the mix for the RW spots. On the LW its Vanek, Ennis, Ott, Foligno, Larsson in the mix and even Leino here as well.
I don't have any issues with him at all, as you might have seen from reading my earlier posts I want him to be one of our go-to guys in Rochester. And I think that does more for him than playing bottom-six on an NHL-team that will most likely be struggling to score a lot, a situation where it will be tough for him to develop the offense side of his game.

And when I look at Larsson, I see a guy who scored 41 points in the AHL, which is decent but not great, and who Rochester fans say was okay in his time there last season, but not great. Those are not bad numbers/reports at all, but I think they shouldn't make a player like him a lock to be in the NHL, not even close. I'd rather sign another plug forward or two and let Larsson come into the NHL if injuries hit, than basically gifting him a spot after the organisation didn't have more than a few games to evaluate him yet.
I want Larsson to become the best player possible and I think the best way to do this is to let him further develop his game in the AHL, a league where he has only spent one season in so far anyway.

Edit: Yeah the 8 D-Men thing might have been wrong, the number was based on the assumption that Ristolainen would be in Buffalo next year and obviously this isn't necessarily the case. But 7 D-Men or 8, it doesn't really change my point as I don't think it would mean that much for Larssons role if there is a 14th Forward spot or not, the team won't want him to sit in the press-box most nights.

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08-06-2013, 05:15 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
No, that's way too black and white. And I was more making the argument of what I think Sabres management will be thinking. If the choices are 4th line minutes NHL, or 1st line minutes AHL I think they'd rather have the latter.
I agree with this. If the expectation is having a horrible team this year, it's a much better idea to fill the NHL roster with warm bodies and have your AHL team be able to go together and be a powerhouse. Seems like a better solution for a rebuilding team than to stick key rookies on lines with inadequate linemates.

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08-06-2013, 05:27 PM
  #261
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I agree with this. If the expectation is having a horrible team this year, it's a much better idea to fill the NHL roster with warm bodies and have your AHL team be able to go together and be a powerhouse. Seems like a better solution for a rebuilding team than to stick key rookies on lines with inadequate linemates.
The thing is if you think long term Larsson is a guy who should be getting tough defensive assignments, it might not be a bad thing to let him grow into that role on the fourth line in the NHL. He can slot in behind Porter and get some protection, while still getting defensive assignments. He can learn on the job in a position where failure isn't the end of the world. Plus, he can help the other young centers like Grigorenko and Hodgson by not putting them in a position they aren't ready for.

Obviously, this requires Larsson to be able to handle that role, but really that should go without saying. No one thinks he should be up in the NHL if he isn't ready yet.

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08-06-2013, 06:03 PM
  #262
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Why? And who does he make the team over? For anyone who watched him in Rochester, he was less than spectacular.
Really? I didn't get a chance to watch him in Rochester, but he was on the verge of being called up by Minnesota until the trade happened. I think he's the closest to NHL ready, and I'm not sure Regier is adding any more veterans unless Vanek is traded.

Larsson is in the thick of the competition, imo. I wouldn't mind seeing him in the AHL to start the year, though.

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08-06-2013, 06:05 PM
  #263
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Larsson was NHL-ready when he was playing in Houston.

So he didn't set Rochester on fire when he came. There's always the "adjusting to new team" business to keep in mind. He'll have to earn his spot, but I think he will do just that: earn it in camp.

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08-06-2013, 07:44 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Larsson was NHL-ready when he was playing in Houston.

So he didn't set Rochester on fire when he came. There's always the "adjusting to new team" business to keep in mind. He'll have to earn his spot, but I think he will do just that: earn it in camp.
Perhaps more importantly, he doesn't seem a "set the world afire" type. He's no super-dynamic star player. While there is wiggle room with regards to his offensive upside, we more or less know what kind of player he will be at the next (or any) level.

Take Pysyk for example: he wasn't setting Rochester afire with his scoring, yet he was clearly ready for the NHL when called upon. His game translates to immediate NHL success via a heady two-way game, the same as Larsson's will.

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08-06-2013, 09:03 PM
  #265
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I agree with this. If the expectation is having a horrible team this year, it's a much better idea to fill the NHL roster with warm bodies and have your AHL team be able to go together and be a powerhouse. Seems like a better solution for a rebuilding team than to stick key rookies on lines with inadequate linemates.

Inadequate linemates? He's likely to be playing with Foligno and Kaleta.

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08-06-2013, 09:51 PM
  #266
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I don't have any issues with him at all, as you might have seen from reading my earlier posts I want him to be one of our go-to guys in Rochester. And I think that does more for him than playing bottom-six on an NHL-team that will most likely be struggling to score a lot, a situation where it will be tough for him to develop the offense side of his game.

And when I look at Larsson, I see a guy who scored 41 points in the AHL, which is decent but not great, and who Rochester fans say was okay in his time there last season, but not great. Those are not bad numbers/reports at all, but I think they shouldn't make a player like him a lock to be in the NHL, not even close. I'd rather sign another plug forward or two and let Larsson come into the NHL if injuries hit, than basically gifting him a spot after the organisation didn't have more than a few games to evaluate him yet.
I want Larsson to become the best player possible and I think the best way to do this is to let him further develop his game in the AHL, a league where he has only spent one season in so far anyway.

Edit: Yeah the 8 D-Men thing might have been wrong, the number was based on the assumption that Ristolainen would be in Buffalo next year and obviously this isn't necessarily the case. But 7 D-Men or 8, it doesn't really change my point as I don't think it would mean that much for Larssons role if there is a 14th Forward spot or not, the team won't want him to sit in the press-box most nights.
This is getting ridiculous. Why would he be in the press box? Like sabrefan27, you're creating a nonsense argument. There is no way in hell he is kept in Buffalo if the coaches/management think he can only handle 6mins or will need to sit most nights. Also I'm not arguing that is what I think he will be doing. I see him getting starting at about 9- 10mins a night at ES, eventuality some PK time and filling in on upper lines when others are struggling. My hope is he eventually usurps Porter as the 3rd line center. So why don't we debate some actual realistic scenarios not scenarios with little basis in reality. The idea that Larsson is going to be kept up on the Buffalo roster to get 6mins a night as sabrefan27 suggests or will sit many nights as you suggest is absurd and you should know that.


Next year we are going to have a young center thats likely to get minimal, sheltered ES minutes and its not Larsson, its Grigs. Our bottom 2 lines will be more of a 3a/3b setup because of it and thats regardless of Larsson making the the team.


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08-06-2013, 10:46 PM
  #267
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There is no way in hell he is kept in Buffalo if the coaches/management think he can only handle 6mins or will need to sit most nights.
I agree and this is exactly why I think that he will NOT be in Buffalo. Both his numbers and the reports from the people who have seen him play in Rochester indicate that he is not ready for the NHL yet, or at least not to play significant minutes. Of course he can work his way into the line-up in training camp just like everyone else, but just penciling him in like you do at the moment is "ridiculous", to use your words.

Don't forget that Larsson isn't a big guy either, for a 5'11 guy to be effective in a bottom-line/checking role his game needs to be that much more polished and well-rounded. And I believe that he is better off gettting that polish by playing in all situations in the AHL.

Quote:
Also I'm not arguing that is what I think he will be doing. I see him getting starting at about 9- 10mins a night at ES, eventuality some PK time and filling in on upper lines when others are struggling. My hope is he eventually usurps Porter as the 3rd line center.
Good to see that you at least admit that those are your hopes, instead of an actual...

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So why don't we debate some actual realistic scenarios not scenarios with little basis in reality.
I hope that Larsson will be successful as soon as possible as well, but we shouldn't let the hopes we have for our players cloud our judgement.

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The idea that Larsson is going to be kept up on the Buffalo roster to get 6mins a night as sabrefan27 suggests or will sit many nights as you suggest is absurd and you should know that.
Either my English is worse than I thought or you should work on your reading comprehension... I explicitely said that the team would NOT want Larsson to sit in the press-box most nights, and because of that it doesn't matter if we will carry 13 or 14 Forwards, because Larsson would never be the 14th Forward. If he stays up then it will be to play, I think we can at least agree on that...

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Next year we are going to have a young center thats likely to get minimal, sheltered ES minutes and its not Larsson, its Grigs. Our bottom 2 lines will be more of a 3a/3b setup because of it and thats regardless of Larsson making the the team.
So BECAUSE we already have one young center that needs to be sheltered we should instantly insert ANOTHER young center who might need to be sheltered as well? That might be the most nonsensical argument I've read in quite a while...

At the end of the day I think it's very simple. Larsson will be up in the NHL if he is ready for it and the staff thinks that's what's best for his development (which could even be on opening night if he impresses at camp, I won't deny that that is a plausible scenario), he will not be up though if the team just needs a warm body to center the 4th line.


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08-06-2013, 11:11 PM
  #268
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It's not a nonsense argument at all. You just don't like the opposing opinion.

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08-06-2013, 11:29 PM
  #269
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I hope you are talking to jj not me, I was just using his own words to answer him

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08-07-2013, 08:41 AM
  #270
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New assistant for Rochester:

http://echl.com/wroblewski-heads-to-...-coach-p185560

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08-07-2013, 08:50 AM
  #271
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Larsson is going to have to beat out a few guys for that final center spot in Buffalo. Most fans think he's capable of running with the opportunity and will do so. Nobody is granting him a roster spot, they're just expecting him to earn it.

Because he's good. And likely ready.

That's it.

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08-07-2013, 09:41 AM
  #272
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http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=49596

He played and coached for the USNTDP.

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08-07-2013, 11:59 AM
  #273
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I agree and this is exactly why I think that he will NOT be in Buffalo. Both his numbers and the reports from the people who have seen him play in Rochester indicate that he is not ready for the NHL yet, or at least not to play significant minutes. Of course he can work his way into the line-up in training camp just like everyone else, but just penciling him in like you do at the moment is "ridiculous", to use your words.
What about the reports from Houston, which got to view him over a larger, more "normal" sample size? He's the furthest along defensive center prospect in the pool, and developing from AHL top-liner to "strong" fourth line minutes in the NHL over the course of a summer is something that's completely within his curve.

Quote:
Don't forget that Larsson isn't a big guy either, for a 5'11 guy to be effective in a bottom-line/checking role his game needs to be that much more polished and well-rounded. And I believe that he is better off gettting that polish by playing in all situations in the AHL.
He's also got an excellent center of gravity and solid core strength. And he'll get meaningful deployments in the NHL.


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Good to see that you at least admit that those are your hopes, instead of an actual...
More like reasonable projections.



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So BECAUSE we already have one young center that needs to be sheltered we should instantly insert ANOTHER young center who might need to be sheltered as well? That might be the most nonsensical argument I've read in quite a while...
Larsson doesn't have to be sheltered in the same way Grigs does. Neither has to face tough competition because Steve Ott's line exists, but Grigs (and to a lesser extent Hodgson) need offensive zone starts to be successful.

Deployments at the start of the year will prolly look like this:

Hodgson - offensive zone starts, against shutdown units and two way players
Grigs - offensive zone starts, against depth lines
Ott/Porter - defensive zone starts, against top scoring lines
Larsson - defensive zone starts, against depth lines

Quote:
At the end of the day I think it's very simple. Larsson will be up in the NHL if he is ready for it and the staff thinks that's what's best for his development (which could even be on opening night if he impresses at camp, I won't deny that that is a plausible scenario), he will not be up though if the team just needs a warm body to center the 4th line.
Says you and everybody else. The difference is, you apparently feel as though Larsson actually doing that is less than 50% likely.

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08-11-2013, 10:01 AM
  #274
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This is hilarious.. instead of arguing about Larrson.. Why not take Reigers word.. he has already stated Larrson is ready for the NHL..so the spot on the big club is his to lose.

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08-11-2013, 11:25 AM
  #275
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This is hilarious.. instead of arguing about Larrson.. Why not take Reigers word.. he has already stated Larrson is ready for the NHL..so the spot on the big club is his to lose.
Do you have that article? Just curious to hear his context. I remember him saying at the deadline that Chuck Fletcher told him that he was ready.

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