HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Non-Sports > Geek Emporium
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Geek Emporium Discuss computers, hardware, software, electronics, video games, internet, etc.

Fair for Canada Ads (Foreign providers coming to Canada)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-06-2013, 04:21 PM
  #1
29dryden29
Registered User
 
29dryden29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,797
vCash: 50
Fair for Canada Ads (Foreign providers coming to Canada)

Has anyone heard the Fair for Canada ads that Bell Telus and Rogers are running in regards to Verizon coming to Canada?

Here is my different opinion in light of what they are saying.



Last edited by 29dryden29: 08-11-2013 at 07:25 PM.
29dryden29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 10:23 AM
  #2
optimus2861
Registered User
 
optimus2861's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bedford NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Has anyone heard the Fair for Canada ads that Bell Telus and Rogers are running in regards to Verizon coming to Canada?
I've heard the radio ads. Disgustingly self-serving garbage. I've bounced around a couple of thoughts on the matter. One, it's pretty bad that we have to hope for a company like Verizon to enter our market just to get our telecom pigs to behave a little better. Two, if Canadians don't support the smaller and newer firms with our business when we have the chance, then ultimately we've got nobody to blame for our rotten market but ourselves.

optimus2861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 11:08 AM
  #3
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
I've heard the radio ads. Disgustingly self-serving garbage. I've bounced around a couple of thoughts on the matter. One, it's pretty bad that we have to hope for a company like Verizon to enter our market just to get our telecom pigs to behave a little better. Two, if Canadians don't support the smaller and newer firms with our business when we have the chance, then ultimately we've got nobody to blame for our rotten market but ourselves.
Why should giant foreign companies get huge discounts when bidding on Canadian Spectrum?

The Canadian companies have invested Billions of dollars into their networks and employ hundreds of thousands of Canadians.

Does anyone actually believe that these foreign companies are going to do the same?

They won't even invest the capital to build their own networks. Why should they get special treatment from the Canadian government?

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 11:22 AM
  #4
Towers
Is it on Origin?
 
Towers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,649
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Towers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Why should giant foreign companies get huge discounts when bidding on Canadian Spectrum?

The Canadian companies have invested Billions of dollars into their networks and employ hundreds of thousands of Canadians.

Does anyone actually believe that these foreign companies are going to do the same?

They won't even invest the capital to build their own networks. Why should they get special treatment from the Canadian government?
Why should we care? The Canadian telecoms have ****ed us for long enough, does it matter if it's an American telecom?

If any Canadians fall for the self-serving drivel that the telecoms are talking about then they need to educate themselves.

Will an American company give us better prices? Maybe, I honestly don't care. More competition will be good.

Towers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 11:51 AM
  #5
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towers View Post
Why should we care? The Canadian telecoms have ****ed us for long enough, does it matter if it's an American telecom?

If any Canadians fall for the self-serving drivel that the telecoms are talking about then they need to educate themselves.

Will an American company give us better prices? Maybe, I honestly don't care. More competition will be good.
You should care because those Canadian companies have been contributing to the Canadian economy through jobs, capital investment and taxes for years.

Competition is fine as long as it's a level playing field. Foreign companies shouldn't get special benefits. The bidding process for Canadian Spectrum should be the same for all bidders.

And if you think that you're going to get vastly lower prices then you're in for a big shock as Verizon isn't going to spend the billions of dollars that the Canadian companies did to build their own network. They'll be paying Rogers or Bell/Telus to use their network.

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 12:09 PM
  #6
Towers
Is it on Origin?
 
Towers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,649
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Towers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
You should care because those Canadian companies have been contributing to the Canadian economy through jobs, capital investment and taxes for years.

Competition is fine as long as it's a level playing field. Foreign companies shouldn't get special benefits. The bidding process for Canadian Spectrum should be the same for all bidders.

And if you think that you're going to get vastly lower prices then you're in for a big shock as Verizon isn't going to spend the billions of dollars that the Canadian companies did to build their own network. They'll be paying Rogers or Bell/Telus to use their network.
I don't think prices are gonna be any lower. No reason for Verizon to do that.

Halliburton provides tons of jobs for people across the world. Doesn't make them any less ******.

You reap what you sow. The Canadian companies fought tooth and nail for the monopoly and don't want to share.

This article from 2008 (yes, that 2008 when the market collapsed) shows that the Canadian telecoms were above and beyond the largest in gross margin throughout the entire world.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/st...ch-profit.html

Since then they've bought sports teams and other things while still maintaining great profit margins.

Meanwhile, prices continue to go up and I'm supposed to give a **** because they built the infrastructure? Whoopity doo. They've been treating us consumers unfairly for years and now the shoe is on the other foot and we're supposed to care?

**** that.

Towers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 12:39 PM
  #7
Sined
The AndroidBugler!
 
Sined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Does hangouts have its own servers? Encryption? Groups? Free Voice Chat? Free Video Chat? Send Receipts? Delivery Receipts? Read Receipts? App Integration?
- It's own servers (Source)
- They are encrypted (Source)
- There is Voice Chat in the works (replacement for GMail Voice calls)
- Send Receipts? Yes
- Delivery/Read? Yes (I'm not sure how these differ)
- App Integration? Yes, Android has the most robust sharing APIs of any of the major platforms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Why should giant foreign companies get huge discounts when bidding on Canadian Spectrum?

The Canadian companies have invested Billions of dollars into their networks and employ hundreds of thousands of Canadians.

Does anyone actually believe that these foreign companies are going to do the same?

They won't even invest the capital to build their own networks. Why should they get special treatment from the Canadian government?
Why should the incumbents be allowed to basically out muscle any competition with brute force spending so they can continue to milk every dollar from the Canadian people.

If you actually are believing these ads, you're sipping on some Koolaid.

When they compared cell prices in Canada to the US, that's simply the 3rd worst country in the world in terms of cell phone prices compared itself to the 2nd worse. Not worth a damn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Towers View Post
You reap what you sow. The Canadian companies fought tooth and nail for the monopoly and don't want to share.
Check mate.
The fact that they've banded together so rapidly in the face of adversity makes me laugh.

I mean they alienated the new entrants so hard they are now the only members of the "Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association" the group behind these ads.

Sined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 12:41 PM
  #8
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towers View Post
I don't think prices are gonna be any lower. No reason for Verizon to do that.

Halliburton provides tons of jobs for people across the world. Doesn't make them any less ******.

You reap what you sow. The Canadian companies fought tooth and nail for the monopoly and don't want to share.

This article from 2008 (yes, that 2008 when the market collapsed) shows that the Canadian telecoms were above and beyond the largest in gross margin throughout the entire world.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/st...ch-profit.html

Since then they've bought sports teams and other things while still maintaining great profit margins.

Meanwhile, prices continue to go up and I'm supposed to give a **** because they built the infrastructure? Whoopity doo. They've been treating us consumers unfairly for years and now the shoe is on the other foot and we're supposed to care?

**** that.

Monopoly? I'm pretty sure that there's more than 1 Wireless provider in Canada. Other companies are welcome to set up Wireless networks in Canada unfortunately not many companies are willing to make the huge capital investment that's required to do so.

And this article from 2012 shows that Canada's Cell Phone Rates are competitive with the rest of the world:

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...e-competitive/

So you honestly think that Verizon, a company that has 4 times the number of subscribers than All of the Canadian Wireless Providers Combined should get to pay Vastly less than the Canadian Telecom providers when bidding on Canadian Spectrum? You do realize that the money from the Spectrum Auctions goes into the governments general revenues. Why should we as Canadian tax payers be subsidizing foreign companies?

The thing that Canadians seem to forget is that we have the second biggest country in the world Geographically but we only have 35 Million people. The USA is smaller Geographically and has 300+ Million people. So the Billions of dollars that it costs to build a Wireless Network are a lot easier to amortize in the USA than in Canada.

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 12:44 PM
  #9
Sined
The AndroidBugler!
 
Sined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post

Monopoly? I'm pretty sure that there's more than 1 Wireless provider in Canada. Other companies are welcome to set up Wireless networks in Canada unfortunately not many companies are willing to make the huge capital investment that's required to do so.

And this article from 2012 shows that Canada's Cell Phone Rates are competitive with the rest of the world:

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...e-competitive/

So you honestly think that Verizon, a company that has 4 times the number of subscribers than All of the Canadian Wireless Providers Combined should get to pay Vastly less than the Canadian Telecom providers when bidding on Canadian Spectrum?

The thing that Canadians seem to forget is that we have the second biggest country in the world Geographically but we only have 35 Million people. The USA is smaller Geographically and has 300+ Million people. So the Billions of dollars that it costs to build a Wireless Network are a lot easier to amortize in the USA than in Canada.
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/2013...-Cell-Service/

Response to your same article.

Quote:
Canadian cell phone providers extract more revenue from cell phone users than anywhere else in the world.
Quote:
Service providers receive lower revenue from Quebec as compared to other provinces, highlighting the positive impact of more choice and fairer pricing on Quebec's market. Over the last few years an increase in independent options has put pressure on the Big Three, resulting in the development of "Unlimited Quebec" plans and lowered prices.
Just realize that last section links to my article on Mobilesyrup.


Last edited by Sined: 08-07-2013 at 12:54 PM.
Sined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 12:48 PM
  #10
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sined View Post
- It's own servers (Source)
- They are encrypted (Source)
- There is Voice Chat in the works (replacement for GMail Voice calls)
- Send Receipts? Yes
- Delivery/Read? Yes (I'm not sure how these differ)
- App Integration? Yes, Android has the most robust sharing APIs of any of the major platforms.

-So no free Voice Chat & no free Video Chat then?
-With BBM you see when your message has been sent from your phone, then you see when it has been delivered to the other phone & then you see when it has been read on the other phone.
-So hangouts automatically updates Facebook, Foursquare, Twitter... like BBM does?

No need to reply to the rest of your post as I already addressed it in my last post above.

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 12:51 PM
  #11
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sined View Post
Sorry I must have missed the response to this:

The thing that Canadians seem to forget is that we have the second biggest country in the world Geographically but we only have 35 Million people. The USA is smaller Geographically and has 300+ Million people. So the Billions of dollars that it costs to build a Wireless Network are a lot easier to amortize in the USA than in Canada.

That is why Canadians pay more. Japan pays less because of the exact opposite on both accounts. We're the most sparsely populated country in the world.

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 01:05 PM
  #12
Sined
The AndroidBugler!
 
Sined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
-So no free Voice Chat & no free Video Chat then?
-With BBM you see when your message has been sent from your phone, then you see when it has been delivered to the other phone & then you see when it has been read on the other phone.
-So hangouts automatically updates Facebook, Foursquare, Twitter... like BBM does?

No need to reply to the rest of your post as I already addressed it in my last post above.
- Right now no voice only capabilities (as far as I can tell)
- Forgot to say YES there is video capabilities (that's Hangout's strongest point) and I will argue its one of the best implementations I've seen. I easily prefer it over Skype and Facetime
- I guess there is no distinction between sent and delivered, but I know it's at least sent is confirmed to the user (I've had message not go through for me due to low signal)
- You can do Hangouts on Air which turns your private hangout into a podcast style video delivered through YouTube which I guess can be shared to your social network of choice? I'm fairly sure that's not what you meant but again I'm not sure what kind of updates you can send through BBM to fb/twitter/etc.

But again, my point was the disparity isn't as you described but I still will try BBM for Android to at least get a taste of both on the same playing field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Sorry I must have missed the response to this:

The thing that Canadians seem to forget is that we have the second biggest country in the world Geographically but we only have 35 Million people. The USA is smaller Geographically and has 300+ Million people. So the Billions of dollars that it costs to build a Wireless Network are a lot easier to amortize in the USA than in Canada.

That is why Canadians pay more. Japan pays less because of the exact opposite on both accounts. We're the most sparsely populated country in the world.
I'll admit this was something I believed as well till I read this:

Quote:
Big Telecom's own lobby group, the CWTA, has noted that Canada has just 13,000 wireless towers, a small fraction of the 52,000 found in the UK, which is only 1/40th our size.
Less towers == less installation costs + less maintenance

Sined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 01:32 PM
  #13
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sined View Post
- Right now no voice only capabilities (as far as I can tell)
- Forgot to say YES there is video capabilities (that's Hangout's strongest point) and I will argue its one of the best implementations I've seen. I easily prefer it over Skype and Facetime
- I guess there is no distinction between sent and delivered, but I know it's at least sent is confirmed to the user (I've had message not go through for me due to low signal)
- You can do Hangouts on Air which turns your private hangout into a podcast style video delivered through YouTube which I guess can be shared to your social network of choice? I'm fairly sure that's not what you meant but again I'm not sure what kind of updates you can send through BBM to fb/twitter/etc.

But again, my point was the disparity isn't as you described but I still will try BBM for Android to at least get a taste of both on the same playing field.



I'll admit this was something I believed as well till I read this:



Less towers == less installation costs + less maintenance
Even if those numbers are accurate the UK is still in the process of getting LTE so it's not the best comparison as those Towers are Legacy equipment. Plus the UK has twice the population of Canada.

Also there's more to a Wireless Network than just the Towers. Each of those Towers has to be connected through Fibre Optical Cable which is either buried in Conduit or strung along Poles. And given the size of Canada that's a lot of Fibre Optical Cable to install and maintain.


Last edited by Neely2005: 08-07-2013 at 01:45 PM.
Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 01:47 PM
  #14
Towers
Is it on Origin?
 
Towers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,649
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Towers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Even if those numbers are accurate the UK is still in the process of getting LTE so it's not the best comparison as those Towers are Legacy equipment. Plus the UK has twice the population of Canada.

Also there's more to a Wireless Network than just the Towers. Each of those Towers has to be connected through Fibre Optical Cable which is either buried in Conduit or strung along Poles. And given the size of Canada that's a lot of Fibre Optical Cable to install and maintain.
You're right, we're taking advantage of those poor, poor telecoms.

How dare we.

How dare we.

Towers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 02:08 PM
  #15
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towers View Post
You're right, we're taking advantage of those poor, poor telecoms.

How dare we.

How dare we.
Sorry can you show me where I said that?

All I'm arguing for is a level playing field. All Wireless Providers should be under the same rules. When bidding for Spectrum all Wireless Providers should be participating in the same Auction under the same rules and it should be an open and transparent process.

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 02:42 PM
  #16
Towers
Is it on Origin?
 
Towers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,649
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Towers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Sorry can you show me where I said that?

All I'm arguing for is a level playing field. All Wireless Providers should be under the same rules. When bidding for Spectrum all Wireless Providers should be participating in the same Auction under the same rules and it should be an open and transparent process.
You're sitting here telling us all the amazing things our benevolent wireless providers have done for us so we should be upset that they're getting the wrong end of the stick.

Fact is, Canadian consumers have been getting the wrong end of the stick for a while now and that I think Rogers, Bell and Telus can take their whining and stick it up their ass.

You're arguing for a level playing field eh? Just like the level playing field the CRTC, Rogers, Bell and Telus offered other companies that wanted to get into the game the past couple decades?

You don't want a level playing field, you want preferential treatment.

Before Verizon it was that other competitors should pay more to use the infrastructure that the telecoms built.

Towers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 03:13 PM
  #17
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towers View Post
You're sitting here telling us all the amazing things our benevolent wireless providers have done for us so we should be upset that they're getting the wrong end of the stick.

Fact is, Canadian consumers have been getting the wrong end of the stick for a while now and that I think Rogers, Bell and Telus can take their whining and stick it up their ass.

You're arguing for a level playing field eh? Just like the level playing field the CRTC, Rogers, Bell and Telus offered other companies that wanted to get into the game the past couple decades?

You don't want a level playing field, you want preferential treatment.

Before Verizon it was that other competitors should pay more to use the infrastructure that the telecoms built.
Again show me where I said this. What I said is that they made the Capital Investment of Billions of dollars to build their networks and then the additional costs of bidding on Spectrum. If Verizon wants to offer service in Canada then they should do the same thing. Especially since Verizon has 4 Times the subscribers than All of the Canadian Wireless Providers combined.

New entrants have entered the market place in the past couple decades, Wind, Mobilicity, Public Mobile, Videotron...

I'm beginning to think that you have a reading comprehension problem. I've said numerous times that I want the same rules for All Wireless Providers in Canada.

Of course they should pay to use the infrastructure that the other providers built/own. If you own a house you should be free to rent it out. People shouldn't be able to live in it for free.

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 03:18 PM
  #18
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
Let me see if anyone can read this and not freak out about context and whatever.
Last year I went to Portugal for 2 weeks and then spent another week in Spain. I brought a cell phone purchased in Portugal a few years ago with capability for multiple sim cards, as well as a sim card for a European telecom company (Vobis I believe).

When I arrived, the pre-paid service had 20 Euros to use. After 3 weeks, and calls throughout Portugal and Spain, calls back to Toronto, etc, I had a total of 16 Euros left on the card.

So, in 3 weeks, with multiple international calls made and received (all wireless services have free incoming calls in Portugal by default), I spent 4 Euros - about $6 Canadian. And, if I had never made another call since, or added any money to the sim card, it would still, today, have the same 16 Euros left.

If you have a pre-paid service here in Canada, every month you must add to the available balance or lose the current balance. There is no carry-over, something that is baseline on the other side of the world, in a place where the economy has collapsed, started to rebuild and collapsed again.

I pay $450 to Rogers each month for regular internet, basic cable and 2 cell phone lines using a shared 1Gb data package and 1000 minutes. This would cost, back in Europe, something like 50 - 75 Euros.

And I can't seem to get a signal, much less 3G, at Sheppard and Yonge....you know, in the middle of the wilderness.
Then again, the argument that Canada is the world's 2nd largest country and therefore the telecom companies need so many towers, etc, doesn't hold any water when you look at the coverage maps. There is practically no service 300 km north of the border with the US, and 90% of the country's population is located within 200 miles of the border. It's not like there are thousands of towers located out in the middle of Nunuvut, northern Ontario, northern Quebec, etc.
I agree that Prepaid service in Canada is ridiculous. You shouldn't have to buy more minutes in order to keep the minutes that you already bought.

That is ridiculous. What does your Wireless Provider's Repair Department say when you tell them that you can't even get 3G Signal at Yonge & Sheppard? I'm in that area regularly and I get full bars of LTE.

Of course they don't build Towers where there aren't people, but as I said earlier Towers are not the only part of a Wireless Network and Canada still has a tiny population spread out over a huge country.

As to coverage maps:

http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 03:19 PM
  #19
Sined
The AndroidBugler!
 
Sined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Even if those numbers are accurate the UK is still in the process of getting LTE so it's not the best comparison as those Towers are Legacy equipment. Plus the UK has twice the population of Canada.

Also there's more to a Wireless Network than just the Towers. Each of those Towers has to be connected through Fibre Optical Cable which is either buried in Conduit or strung along Poles. And given the size of Canada that's a lot of Fibre Optical Cable to install and maintain.
That cable backbone is based on the same lines that were put in place to get telephone access to people in Canada (and HEAVILY subsidized by taxpayers might I add, this wasn't a burden carried by our multibillion dollar telecom overlords). It's not as hard as you make it sound. The real hard part is installation and maintenance of towers.

How does LTE affect the stat in any ways shape or form. In fact it probably strengthens my argument that carriers here don't have as much of a technological "burden" from geographic circumstances as we are led to believe.

To upgrade more than double the towers it's taking the UK carriers far more time, resources, and manpower to upgrade whereas Canadian telcoms had far less work to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Sorry can you show me where I said that?

All I'm arguing for is a level playing field. All Wireless Providers should be under the same rules. When bidding for Spectrum all Wireless Providers should be participating in the same Auction under the same rules and it should be an open and transparent process.
The problem with asking for level playing field is that field EVEN IN IT'S CURRENT STATE is already tilted FAR in the incumbent's favor.

The big wireless auction that went down 5 years ago? Only AWS/1700MHz a frequency only used in the US by T-Mobile, was up for auction. The 850&1900 MHz bands were not put up for auction and were basically kept by the the Big 3. Is that a level playing field to you?

The fear here is of an opponent that actually has the financial might to out bid incumbents on the amazing 700MHz spectrum.

AWS/1700MHz that WIND/Mobilicity/Videotron hold is relatively worthless especially in the light of T-Mobile moving to the 1900MHz spectrum and using AWS/1700MHz which the new entrants can't do here (since T-Mobile got these chuncks of 1900MHz from the failed AT&T buyout) and don't have spectrum to roll out LTE on AWS.

These cries are that of the rich who might become a little less rich. Give me a ****ing break. Grow a spine and compete, fight for the customer to choose you over the competition.

The only thing I will concede to the claims of the big 3 is that there should be clause that IF a huge wireless company like Verizon buys WIND/Mobilicity/both the obligation of incumbents to allow them to freely roam on the big 3 networks should be void.

But at this point WIND/Mobilicity should have enough coverage to stomach the initial coverage drop off, or at least have Verizon eat the roaming fees.


Last edited by Sined: 08-07-2013 at 03:28 PM.
Sined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 03:29 PM
  #20
pcruz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Vaughan
Country: Portugal
Posts: 1,176
vCash: 500
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/028.nsf/eng/00358.html

Is this the kind of thing that makes us believe that Canada is a world leader in telecommunications?

"As the Navigating Convergence Report states:11

"Observers have asserted that the concentration of broadband revenues accruing to ILECs and cable providers has the effect of keeping consumer prices higher than they might otherwise be. This is borne out in cross–OECD comparisons of broadband pricing. Among the most dramatic of the various comparisons is that of average broadband monthly price per advertisedMbps as measured in U.S. dollars, adjusted to purchasing power parity…"

Canada ranked 28th out of 30 in the specific cross–OECD comparison just cited.

The Final Berkman Report12 is the most comprehensive study of the state of broadband markets and trends from around the world. That report confirms Canada's poor performance across a number of broadband indicators:

"Though it was among the first nations in the world to provide widespread, retail broadband service, Canada's recent broadband development has lagged behind other developed nations. Canada's broadband penetration rates are often lauded, but the country is a poor performer on price and speed and a declining performer in penetration…13"

Small sample of this 2010 report and recommendation made to the CRTC and the government.

pcruz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 04:51 PM
  #21
Neely2005
Grey Cup Champions
 
Neely2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sined View Post
That cable backbone is based on the same lines that were put in place to get telephone access to people in Canada (and HEAVILY subsidized by taxpayers might I add, this wasn't a burden carried by our multibillion dollar telecom overlords). It's not as hard as you make it sound. The real hard part is installation and maintenance of towers.

How does LTE affect the stat in any ways shape or form. In fact it probably strengthens my argument that carriers here don't have as much of a technological "burden" from geographic circumstances as we are led to believe.

To upgrade more than double the towers it's taking the UK carriers far more time, resources, and manpower to upgrade whereas Canadian telcoms had far less work to do.



The problem with asking for level playing field is that field EVEN IN IT'S CURRENT STATE is already tilted FAR in the incumbent's favor.

The big wireless auction that went down 5 years ago? Only AWS/1700MHz a frequency only used in the US by T-Mobile, was up for auction. The 850&1900 MHz bands were not put up for auction and were basically kept by the the Big 3. Is that a level playing field to you?

The fear here is of an opponent that actually has the financial might to out bid incumbents on the amazing 700MHz spectrum.

AWS/1700MHz that WIND/Mobilicity/Videotron hold is relatively worthless especially in the light of T-Mobile moving to the 1900MHz spectrum and using AWS/1700MHz which the new entrants can't do here (since T-Mobile got these chuncks of 1900MHz from the failed AT&T buyout) and don't have spectrum to roll out LTE on AWS.

These cries are that of the rich who might become a little less rich. Give me a ****ing break. Grow a spine and compete, fight for the customer to choose you over the competition.

The only thing I will concede to the claims of the big 3 is that there should be clause that IF a huge wireless company like Verizon buys WIND/Mobilicity/both the obligation of incumbents to allow them to freely roam on the big 3 networks should be void.

But at this point WIND/Mobilicity should have enough coverage to stomach the initial coverage drop off, or at least have Verizon eat the roaming fees.
This will be my last post on this subject in the BlackBerry thread since we've gone totally off subject.

Your assertion that LTE networks were built on that existing ILEC backbone is incorrect. That old backbone is based on Copper Loops not Fibre Optical Cable. Also an ILEC isn't going to provide a Cable Company access to the backbone of their network. Rogers used to have a Fibre Optical network but they sold it to Allstream (formerly AT&T Canada) in order to finance their original Wireless Network. Rogers had to lay new Fibre Optical Cable for their LTE network and for their Rogers Business Solutions network.

As to the UK my point was that the Legacy equipment is cheaper than LTE equipment.

In regards to the Spectrum auctions bandwidth was reserved for both the Incumbents and for the new players. The Incumbents had to pay a Lot more for their Spectrum!

Now back to BlackBerry.

Neely2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 05:28 PM
  #22
29dryden29
Registered User
 
29dryden29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,797
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
I've heard the radio ads. Disgustingly self-serving garbage. I've bounced around a couple of thoughts on the matter. One, it's pretty bad that we have to hope for a company like Verizon to enter our market just to get our telecom pigs to behave a little better. Two, if Canadians don't support the smaller and newer firms with our business when we have the chance, then ultimately we've got nobody to blame for our rotten market but ourselves.
Apparently even the Feds are sick of the Canadian wireless companies. I have heard that the Feds are taking over the build and install of the wireless towers and the carriers just need to install their antennas. The Feds need better wireless coverage and were not getting it so they going to try and remedy it rather than leave it to the carriers. I am all for Verizon moving here. I also hope the Vodafone and Orange come in also. I remember Richard Branson commenting when he opened Virgin mobile here he said why wouldn't do it with the way it is set up in Canada there is no way I CAN"T make money doing this. Then he sold out to Bell.

29dryden29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 05:39 PM
  #23
29dryden29
Registered User
 
29dryden29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,797
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
Let me see if anyone can read this and not freak out about context and whatever.
Last year I went to Portugal for 2 weeks and then spent another week in Spain. I brought a cell phone purchased in Portugal a few years ago with capability for multiple sim cards, as well as a sim card for a European telecom company (Vobis I believe).

When I arrived, the pre-paid service had 20 Euros to use. After 3 weeks, and calls throughout Portugal and Spain, calls back to Toronto, etc, I had a total of 16 Euros left on the card.

So, in 3 weeks, with multiple international calls made and received (all wireless services have free incoming calls in Portugal by default), I spent 4 Euros - about $6 Canadian. And, if I had never made another call since, or added any money to the sim card, it would still, today, have the same 16 Euros left.

If you have a pre-paid service here in Canada, every month you must add to the available balance or lose the current balance. There is no carry-over, something that is baseline on the other side of the world, in a place where the economy has collapsed, started to rebuild and collapsed again.

I pay $450 to Rogers each month for regular internet, basic cable and 2 cell phone lines using a shared 1Gb data package and 1000 minutes. This would cost, back in Europe, something like 50 - 75 Euros.

And I can't seem to get a signal, much less 3G, at Sheppard and Yonge....you know, in the middle of the wilderness.
Then again, the argument that Canada is the world's 2nd largest country and therefore the telecom companies need so many towers, etc, doesn't hold any water when you look at the coverage maps. There is practically no service 300 km north of the border with the US, and 90% of the country's population is located within 200 miles of the border. It's not like there are thousands of towers located out in the middle of Nunuvut, northern Ontario, northern Quebec, etc.
My best friend and his wife went to Columbia and San Andreas island in the winter. I unlocked his BB for him and when they got there they got a sim and 3 weeks of service unlimited talk BBM facebook etc and it cost him 17 dollars Canadian. This is in Columbia I mean seriousy how is Columbia cheaper than us. Just stupid we are getting bent over and don't even get the lube or a reach around.

29dryden29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 08:09 PM
  #24
29dryden29
Registered User
 
29dryden29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,797
vCash: 50
TING a Canadian company that can't operate in Canada hmmm monopoly I sure think so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=gjdfzxYnmDA

29dryden29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2013, 12:38 AM
  #25
The Russian General
Go Habs Go
 
The Russian General's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: MTL
Posts: 12,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
smaller slice out of a vastly bigger pie. Not a good thing.
Neely will never say anything bad about BBRY. He's drinking the CrackBerry Kool-Aid.

The Russian General is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.