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08-07-2013, 03:36 PM
  #326
Tawnos
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My apologies. I guess I originally couldnt fathom that your real point is even sillier than the historical look at great players being drafted outside the top 10. You do realize that "since 2007" is an awfully short window to evaluate something like that, don't you?
2007 is pretty much the cutoff for judging whether players have even made it to the NHL. I mean, the standard for a player who became an legitimate NHLer is usually 300 games, from what I've seen. From the 2007 draft, you still have players like JVR, Turris, Alzner, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, and Pacioretty who were 1st rounders having played less than 300 games, some of them less than 200. Is there any doubt these guys will get there? Barring injury, of course. The whole concept is slightly ludicrous.

Teams draft and develop talent outside of the top 10 all the time. I count 7 forwards in HFs top 20 prospects who were drafted outside of the top 10.

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08-07-2013, 03:48 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My apologies. I guess I originally couldnt fathom that your real point is even sillier than the historical look at great players being drafted outside the top 10. You do realize that "since 2007" is an awfully short window to evaluate something like that, don't you?
I don't remember with who it was but 2007 was the year in discussion. It is pretty dumb.

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08-07-2013, 03:48 PM
  #328
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2007 is pretty much the cutoff for judging whether players have even made it to the NHL. I mean, the standard for a player who became an legitimate NHLer is usually 300 games, from what I've seen. From the 2007 draft, you still have players like JVR, Turris, Alzner, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, and Pacioretty who were 1st rounders having played less than 300 games, some of them less than 200. Is there any doubt these guys will get there? Barring injury, of course. The whole concept is slightly ludicrous.

Teams draft and develop talent outside of the top 10 all the time. I count 7 forwards in HFs top 20 prospects who were drafted outside of the top 10.
The real question is how do the Rangers deal with the fact they've been abysmal at drafting and developing 1st line forwards? Do they continue to take pride in trying to compete every year while simultaneously shrugging their shoulders about how its tough to pick outside the top 10? Because that seems to be the organizational philosophy right now. Stock the team with depth through the draft, maybe they'll get lucky -- but the 1st line players will be imported.

Not many teams have won it all this way.

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08-07-2013, 03:58 PM
  #329
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It really is astounding how the Rangers have struggled to draft and develop elite forwards in the past 20 years under both Smith and Sather. Savard is the only forward the Rangers drafted in that time that I would consider elite and of course he had his best years with other teams. It's a flaw that no one in the front office has really figured out how to fix, and this is why they always have to look outside the organization for primary scoring.

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08-07-2013, 04:00 PM
  #330
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The real question is how do the Rangers deal with the fact they've been abysmal at drafting and developing 1st line forwards? Do they continue to take pride in trying to compete every year while simultaneously shrugging their shoulders about how its tough to pick outside the top 10? Because that seems to be the organizational philosophy right now. Stock the team with depth through the draft, maybe they'll get lucky -- but the 1st line players will be imported.

Not many teams have won it all this way.
We still have to see how Kreider pans out. Part of this is definitely bad luck though. I mean, our two best possibilities for first line forwards in the first round in the last 15 drafts both had their playing careers cut short... Cherepanov and Cherneski.

But that's only part of it. Organizational philosophies have also dictated us to take other players. Like Del Zotto over Eberle or Sanguinetti over Giroux. One might say that we've gone pretty well for ourselves, overall, if we wanted to build from the goal out. In some ways, I feel like we went too far with it, though.

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08-07-2013, 04:03 PM
  #331
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Miller had .5 ppg in the AHL as a 19 year old. How is he being developed as a third liner? You kind of need to explain why you think Miller is developing like a third liner, and why you think his AHL numbers at 19 (23 points in 42 games) are a sign he's developing as a third liner, because implying something like that is off base and overly negative from my point of view.
I thought Miller looked darn good in the NHL. I was more impressed with his play in the NHL than the WJC's to be honest.

Miller made a high caliber play for every boneheaded play he made, and there were quite many of each. Not many players in this league can break the pattern, beat players one on one, and take the puck to the net on a regular basis. It's not enough to get pts on the board, but if you have that ability and can play a gritty 2-way game -- a lot of good will come out of it.

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08-07-2013, 04:18 PM
  #332
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Neil Smith changed direction in terms of roster construction, but I don't really believe that he changed anything in regards to player development.
I'm not sure he did that either.

His last summer as GM he signed Kamensky, Fleury, Quintal, and Tim Taylor.

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08-07-2013, 04:23 PM
  #333
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I'm not sure he did that either.

His last summer as GM he signed Kamensky, Fleury, Quintal, and Tim Taylor.
But not Pierre Turgeon!

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Old
08-07-2013, 04:35 PM
  #334
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But not Pierre Turgeon!
If the choice was between acquiring Turgeon or signing Jason Doig...

Come on, who would you choose?

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08-07-2013, 07:50 PM
  #335
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We still have to see how Kreider pans out. Part of this is definitely bad luck though. I mean, our two best possibilities for first line forwards in the first round in the last 15 drafts both had their playing careers cut short... Cherepanov and Cherneski.

But that's only part of it. Organizational philosophies have also dictated us to take other players. Like Del Zotto over Eberle or Sanguinetti over Giroux. One might say that we've gone pretty well for ourselves, overall, if we wanted to build from the goal out. In some ways, I feel like we went too far with it, though.
Agree 100% especially considering that with all the defensemen we have drafted, that position is still anything but elite despite what some of the fans around here think.

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08-07-2013, 08:02 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
To his credit, Neil Smith tried to change direction, but he did it in advance of the 1999 draft which was one of the worst in history. Oops.

The following year, Sather comes in, guns-a-blazing and ready to spend Dolan's money and we were right back at square 1 again.
Let's face facts, the Ranger's organization had absolutely no clue in what they were doing when they hired "The Teflon GM" to begin with. Dolan is like a baby with a new toy when it comes to his hiring practices and as it relates to Sather, Dolan was enamored with a guy who clearly hadn't accomplished **** in 10 years prior to becoming lifetime GM here! Live and learn? I think not!

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08-07-2013, 09:36 PM
  #337
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Agree 100% especially considering that with all the defensemen we have drafted, that position is still anything but elite despite what some of the fans around here think.
Our defense isn't elite? When Staal is healthy our defense is easily top-3 in the league.

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08-07-2013, 10:08 PM
  #338
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Let's face facts, the Ranger's organization had absolutely no clue in what they were doing when they hired "The Teflon GM" to begin with. Dolan is like a baby with a new toy when it comes to his hiring practices and as it relates to Sather, Dolan was enamored with a guy who clearly hadn't accomplished **** in 10 years prior to becoming lifetime GM here! Live and learn? I think not!
Hey now! You leave the Teflon GM alone! Otherwise people who don't even know what Teflon means are gonna come for you

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Old
08-07-2013, 10:13 PM
  #339
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Our defense isn't elite? When Staal is healthy our defense is easily top-3 in the league.
Keep believing that pal. Our defense couldn't t clear out beer league players from in front of the net and they don't win too many battles along the boards. Top 3 in the league? Lol!

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08-07-2013, 10:14 PM
  #340
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Agree 100% especially considering that with all the defensemen we have drafted, that position is still anything but elite despite what some of the fans around here think.
huh? Even with Staal out our defense was 4th in the league, obviously Lundqvist helps that but the D work really hard too. They're absolutely elite.

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08-07-2013, 10:14 PM
  #341
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Agree 100% especially considering that with all the defensemen we have drafted, that position is still anything but elite despite what some of the fans around here think.
What? They have 3 #1 defensemen, and 3 others who on any given night can play top 4.

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08-07-2013, 10:15 PM
  #342
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Keep believing that pal. Our defense couldn't t clear out beer league players from in front of the net and they don't win too many battles along the boards. Top 3 in the league? Lol!
Thats because they were all on the ground from trying to block shots

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08-07-2013, 10:16 PM
  #343
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Hey now! You leave the Teflon GM alone! Otherwise people who don't even know what Teflon means are gonna come for you
Dolan's hire of Sather in 2000 ranks pretty much with his hire of Isiah Thomas and Larry Brown!

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08-07-2013, 10:16 PM
  #344
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Keep believing that pal. Our defense couldn't t clear out beer league players from in front of the net and they don't win too many battles along the boards. Top 3 in the league? Lol!
Just keep reminding us not to take you seriously.

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Old
08-07-2013, 10:22 PM
  #345
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Just keep reminding us not to take you seriously.
Whatevur u say "TGM" luvr!!!

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08-07-2013, 10:24 PM
  #346
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huh? Even with Staal out our defense was 4th in the league, obviously Lundqvist helps that but the D work really hard too. They're absolutely elite.
Who exactly would you classify as an elite defenseman on the Rangers? Pleasew don't tell me Staal or even McDonagh who's light years better than Staal. Neither guy is a legit #1 defenseman on a #1 defense pairing.

I suggest you either rethink how you use the word elite here. There are really no elite defensemen in the league at all with the possible exception of Chara and he was exposed terribly by the Black Hawks speed in the SCF.

McDonagh and Staal are not even top 10 defensemen in a league that is devoid of so called "elite" defensemen!

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08-07-2013, 10:27 PM
  #347
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Thats because they were all on the ground from trying to block shots
Wake the **** up pal! We haven't had a defenseman capable of clearing out the front of the net since Beuk was forced to retire 15 yrs ago. Perhaps McIIrath will be that guy when he finishes his development in 2018!

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08-07-2013, 10:28 PM
  #348
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Wake the **** up pal! We haven't had a defenseman capable of clearing out the front of the net since Beuk was forced to retire 15 yrs ago. Perhaps McIIrath will be that guy when he finishes his development in 2018!
clearing out the front of the net = only way to play good defense.

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08-07-2013, 10:31 PM
  #349
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Who exactly would you classify as an elite defenseman on the Rangers? Pleasew don't tell me Staal or even McDonagh who's light years better than Staal. Neither guy is a legit #1 defenseman on a #1 defense pairing.

I suggest you either rethink how you use the word elite here. There are really no elite defensemen in the league at all with the possible exception of Chara and he was exposed terribly by the Black Hawks speed in the SCF.

McDonagh and Staal are not even top 10 defensemen in a league that is devoid of so called "elite" defensemen!
Chara was hurt in the Finals. I'm pretty sure I read that it was a hip injury. Kinda hard to say Chicago's speed exposed a player who could barely move laterally or pivot due to injury.

The Rangers defense is elite, and the fact that none of the defensemen have standout skill doesn't really change that. Staal and McDonagh are top pair D in at least two thirds of the league. Girardi is a top pair D in at least half of it. The thing is that these are all similar defensemen. Stralman and Moore too. Not top-of-the-class in offense or physicality. Extremely high marks in mobility, stickwork, positioning. In other words, they aren't flashy.

Not being flashy isn't a reason to say a group isn't elite.

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08-07-2013, 10:38 PM
  #350
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Who exactly would you classify as an elite defenseman on the Rangers? Pleasew don't tell me Staal or even McDonagh who's light years better than Staal. Neither guy is a legit #1 defenseman on a #1 defense pairing.

I suggest you either rethink how you use the word elite here. There are really no elite defensemen in the league at all with the possible exception of Chara and he was exposed terribly by the Black Hawks speed in the SCF.

McDonagh and Staal are not even top 10 defensemen in a league that is devoid of so called "elite" defensemen!
lol I'm done this is my cue to stop taking you seriously as a poster. McD could crack the top pairing on almost every team in the league. Pretty elite to me.

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