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Old
08-07-2013, 10:38 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
What? They have 3 #1 defensemen, and 3 others who on any given night can play top 4.
I'll repeat myself; none of our current defensemen can crack the top 10 list of top defensemen in the league!

Chara
Keith
Doughty
Suter
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Subban
Letang
Seabrook
Kronwall
Markov(if and when healthy)

And that's for starters!

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08-07-2013, 10:39 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Chara was hurt in the Finals. I'm pretty sure I read that it was a hip injury. Kinda hard to say Chicago's speed exposed a player who could barely move laterally or pivot due to injury.

The Rangers defense is elite, and the fact that none of the defensemen have standout skill doesn't really change that. Staal and McDonagh are top pair D in at least two thirds of the league. Girardi is a top pair D in at least half of it. The thing is that these are all similar defensemen. Stralman and Moore too. Not top-of-the-class in offense or physicality. Extremely high marks in mobility, stickwork, positioning. In other words, they aren't flashy.

Not being flashy isn't a reason to say a group isn't elite.
Come on, I too was impressed with Moore but let's have this discussion again next summer. Lets not over hype the guy over 20 games. Stralman has played better than anyone could ever ask for but he's nowhere near elite. He's more suited for 3rd pairing with the ability to play 2nd pair fill in mins

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Old
08-07-2013, 10:44 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
Just keep reminding us not to take you seriously.
I'll admit that I'm a glass half empty fan based on 55 years of being disappointed by far and away the worst of the original six franchises and so I'm way more objective than the average wet behind the ears 19 year old that posts here and thinks Sather is a magician as our lifetime GM. Our defense is perhaps top 10 in the league but they are basically all clones of one another. They are all finesse defensemen with not one of them capable of winning physical battles or did you forget about the Bruin playoff series so soon?

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08-07-2013, 10:48 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Wake the **** up pal! We haven't had a defenseman capable of clearing out the front of the net since Beuk was forced to retire 15 yrs ago. Perhaps McIIrath will be that guy when he finishes his development in 2018!
What about Mike Sauer? I get you're angry, but think about what you're saying.



But no, we have nobody.

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Old
08-07-2013, 10:49 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
clearing out the front of the net = only way to play good defense.
No but it is an integral part to beating much bigger, physical teams like the Bruins. Doesn't anybody around here get tired of watching players like Lucic and company make our defensemen their personal *****es?

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08-07-2013, 10:52 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
What about Mike Sauer? I get you're angry, but think about what you're saying.



But no, we have nobody.
I loved Michael Sauer and I was going to put in my post but with his career probably over, I didn't think it would fly here. Sauer was easily our best defenseman from a physicality standpoint when he was healthy.

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08-07-2013, 10:52 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
What about Mike Sauer? I get you're angry, but think about what you're saying.



But no, we have nobody.
All this does is make me miss Jeff Halpern </3

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Old
08-07-2013, 10:52 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
No but it is an integral part to beating much bigger, physical teams like the Bruins. Doesn't anybody around here get tired of watching players like Lucic and company make our defensemen their personal *****es?
Even crease clearers have trouble with players like Lucic. That's why he's so unique. There's very few defensemen that can handle his physical presence and one of the main ones is his teammate.

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08-07-2013, 10:53 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I'll repeat myself; none of our current defensemen can crack the top 10 list of top defensemen in the league!

Chara
Keith
Doughty
Suter
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Subban
Letang
Seabrook
Kronwall
Markov(if and when healthy)

And that's for starters!
Seabrook and Markov? Seriously? Seabrook would be this team's #4, and Markov has declined rapidly.

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Old
08-07-2013, 10:54 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
No but it is an integral part to beating much bigger, physical teams like the Bruins. Doesn't anybody around here get tired of watching players like Lucic and company make our defensemen their personal *****es?
You said we haven't had a defenseman like that since Beuk, which was untrue. Staal and McDonagh may not be incredibly mean, but you won't see them get pushed around often.

The majority of the defensemen you listed don't match up to Lucic physically.

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08-07-2013, 10:59 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Seabrook and Markov? Seriously? Seabrook would be this team's #4, and Markov has declined rapidly.
I guess you didn't bother to watch the SCF; Seabrook was terrific and there is no way in hell that he would be our team's #4! You are really clueless to make a dumb statement like that; Markov? That's another story!

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08-07-2013, 11:01 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
Come on, I too was impressed with Moore but let's have this discussion again next summer. Lets not over hype the guy over 20 games. Stralman has played better than anyone could ever ask for but he's nowhere near elite. He's more suited for 3rd pairing with the ability to play 2nd pair fill in mins
Who said either of those players was elite? Certainly not me. Read it again.

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Old
08-07-2013, 11:02 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
You said we haven't had a defenseman like that since Beuk, which was untrue. Staal and McDonagh may not be incredibly mean, but you won't see them get pushed around often.

The majority of the defensemen you listed don't match up to Lucic physically.
Your right about Lucic matchup wise but you are dead wrong about McD(who I love) and Staal(who is also very good); they are finesse guys and not top 10 defensemen in the league!

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08-07-2013, 11:03 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Even crease clearers have trouble with players like Lucic. That's why he's so unique. There's very few defensemen that can handle his physical presence and one of the main ones is his teammate.
Good post; point well taken!

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08-07-2013, 11:05 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I guess you didn't bother to watch the SCF; Seabrook was terrific and there is no way in hell that he would be our team's #4! You are really clueless to make a dumb statement like that; Markov? That's another story!
Seabrook was hot in the playoffs. That doesn't make him a better defenseman than any of our top 3. It makes him hot in the playoffs. On the other end of the spectrum, Girardi had a bit of a down year. Happened to Seabrook's partner a couple of years back too.

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08-07-2013, 11:05 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I'll repeat myself; none of our current defensemen can crack the top 10 list of top defensemen in the league!

Chara
Keith
Doughty
Suter
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Subban
Letang
Seabrook
Kronwall
Markov(if and when healthy)

And that's for starters!
Subban and Karlsson? Are you just pissy that we don't have any pure offensive defensemen? Cause minus the offense McD is miles better than Karlsson, Letang, Subban, and Markov. Seabrook just isn't better than McD at all. Kronwall is debatable.

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08-07-2013, 11:06 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
Subban and Karlsson? Are you just pissy that we don't have any pure offensive defensemen? Cause minus the offense McD is miles better than Karlsson, Letang, Subban, and Markov. Seabrook just isn't better than McD at all. Kronwall is debatable.
Look, I like McDonagh a lot... but Letang, Karlsson and Subban are definitely ahead of him when talking about the best defensemen in the league.

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Old
08-07-2013, 11:09 PM
  #368
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Dat McDonagh-Subban possibility.

Thank you Scott Gomez

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Old
08-07-2013, 11:10 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
Subban and Karlsson? Are you just pissy that we don't have any pure offensive defensemen? Cause minus the offense McD is miles better than Karlsson, Letang, Subban, and Markov. Seabrook just isn't better than McD at all. Kronwall is debatable.
That list doesn't include Shea Weber or OEL. Fail.

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08-07-2013, 11:11 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Chara was hurt in the Finals. I'm pretty sure I read that it was a hip injury. Kinda hard to say Chicago's speed exposed a player who could barely move laterally or pivot due to injury.

The Rangers defense is elite, and the fact that none of the defensemen have standout skill doesn't really change that. Staal and McDonagh are top pair D in at least two thirds of the league. Girardi is a top pair D in at least half of it. The thing is that these are all similar defensemen. Stralman and Moore too. Not top-of-the-class in offense or physicality. Extremely high marks in mobility, stickwork, positioning. In other words, they aren't flashy.

Not being flashy isn't a reason to say a group isn't elite.
There is a propensity around here to throw around the term "elite" like it was confetti. Now hear this; there are no elite defensemen or team defenses in the NHL today.
The Rangers have a very good defense; perhaps a top 5-8 in the league but no way it's "elite" in any way, shape or form!

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Old
08-07-2013, 11:12 PM
  #371
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Look, I like McDonagh a lot... but Letang, Karlsson and Subban are definitely ahead of him when talking about the best defensemen in the league.
He said excluding offense. Letang and Karlsson are not only not amazing in their own zone, they are soft as tissue paper.

They are great defensemen because of their rush capabilities and skating.

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Old
08-07-2013, 11:15 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Seabrook was hot in the playoffs. That doesn't make him a better defenseman than any of our top 3. It makes him hot in the playoffs. On the other end of the spectrum, Girardi had a bit of a down year. Happened to Seabrook's partner a couple of years back too.
On the contrary, Brent Seabrook is a top defensemen in this league whether or not you realize it.
I would take him over any of our defensemen because of his physicality and his superior offensive game to any of our guys.

He got hot? No! He has played like that for the past 7 years or so.

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08-07-2013, 11:16 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
There is a propensity around here to throw around the term "elite" like it was confetti. Now hear this; there are no elite defensemen or team defenses in the NHL today.
The Rangers have a very good defense; perhaps a top 5-8 in the league but no way it's "elite" in any way, shape or form!
Elite is a relative term, and always will be. There will always be elite players and elite groups, because they are defined by their contemporaries, not by some abstract ideal of the term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
He said excluding offense. Letang and Karlsson are not only not amazing in their own zone, they are soft as tissue paper.

They are great defensemen because of their rush capabilities and skating.
If I'm ranking defensemen, or really any player, it's based on their ability to help their team win. Those players are more effective than McDonagh at that.

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Old
08-07-2013, 11:18 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
On the contrary, Brent Seabrook is a top defensemen in this league whether or not you realize it.
I would take him over any of our defensemen because of his physicality and his superior offensive game to any of our guys.

He got hot? No! He has played like that for the past 7 years or so.
Seabrook's game was at another level in the playoffs. One we rarely see from him. And I realize that because I've watched him. He's a great defenseman, but using those playoffs as a barometer for how good he is doesn't paint an accurate picture. Nobody is ever truly as good as they are when they're hot, just like nobody is ever as bad as they are when they're cold.

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08-07-2013, 11:20 PM
  #375
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That list doesn't include Shea Weber or OEL. Fail.
OEL doesn't produce enough offense

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