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Old
08-08-2013, 12:23 AM
  #426
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I don't think it's LA having great defensemen as I think it's having a great set of two way forwards that help them thrive defensively.

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08-08-2013, 05:09 AM
  #427
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Doughty is sick. He gives them something from their blueline, that we never get, 25 minutes a night and every important shift.

They have VV who gives them an elite offensive punch too, something that we also never get. The other 4 guys just needs to be solid, and last year they where just that, very solid.

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08-08-2013, 05:51 AM
  #428
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The Yankees, the NHL, the Rangers, the Devils and the Islanders are hosting an 11 a.m. joint presser at the Big ATM in the Bronx to promote the upcoming Super Bowl week series of outdoor games at the Stadium.

I hope to have some video, some audio, maybe some pictures and a story from there today. Jeff Gorton, Ryan Callahan and Dan Girardi are expected to attend.
http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2013/0...medium=twitter

Hopefully Carp asks Gorton about Stepan. Where is Sather? Palm Springs or Banff?

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08-08-2013, 07:05 AM
  #429
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Friday’s ceremonial first pitches at the Stadium will be thrown by Rangers defenseman Dan Girardi, Islanders center John Tavares and Devils defenseman Andy Greene. All three local teams will play games at the Stadium in January.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz2bNHoVB00

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08-08-2013, 07:15 AM
  #430
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I -- definitely -- do not think our blueline is close to being top 5. The game is about scoring atleast a goal more than the team you play against. Offense is also part of the game for a blueline.

Is our blueline even top 20 offensively?

We have no PPQB. We had no D in the top 30 in scoring. Of the pts our D's does pick up, there is a whole bunch of not substansial pts. We were 15th in goals scored, and our D's aren't complete stiff and will pick up a fair share of pts. But they have not in any way been involved offensively on a regular basis and been a factor.

To be able to break the pattern. To not get stuck againt a D just playing it safe against you, to be able to get away from a team that gets a grip on you, to have a PP -- its just so darn important to have that guy on the blue line that can lock things up. We don't have much of that at all. Its hard to say that our blueline is a top 10 blueline in this league without that.

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08-08-2013, 07:32 AM
  #431
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Del Zotto needs to become that offensive defenseman. He had 37 points in his first year. 41 points in his 3rd year. He had a 37 point pace in the lockout season.

Quote:
“To have played 250 games, it really has flown by,” said the 20th overall pick in 2008. “I’m no longer the young guy and some might say I’m getting into that veteran-type territory. Regardless, I just want to be a consistent player over 82 games.”
http://www.nhlpa.com/news/del-zotto-inspired-for-more

He had hernia surgery a few months ago. DZ rehabbed the injury in New York before going to Ontario. He has been skating with Barb Underhill. Its a contract year for him. He will be 2 years away from group III at the end of his contract. Its a big year for him. DZ has a big year and he is in line for a big contract. Playing for a new coach and staff. Torts was his only NHL head coach. He played some pre-season games in 2008 when Tom Renney was the coach. Ulf Samuelsson should help DZ.

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08-08-2013, 07:53 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2013/0...medium=twitter

Hopefully Carp asks Gorton about Stepan. Where is Sather? Palm Springs or Banff?
Gone fishin'!

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08-08-2013, 09:15 AM
  #433
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Del Zotto needs to become that offensive defenseman. He had 37 points in his first year. 41 points in his 3rd year. He had a 37 point pace in the lockout season.



http://www.nhlpa.com/news/del-zotto-inspired-for-more

He had hernia surgery a few months ago. DZ rehabbed the injury in New York before going to Ontario. He has been skating with Barb Underhill. Its a contract year for him. He will be 2 years away from group III at the end of his contract. Its a big year for him. DZ has a big year and he is in line for a big contract. Playing for a new coach and staff. Torts was his only NHL head coach. He played some pre-season games in 2008 when Tom Renney was the coach. Ulf Samuelsson should help DZ.
Del Zotto needs to mature at this point. 250 games. Every time he struggles I cant help but think the problem is between his ears. He lets poor play manifest itself into a trainwreck at times.

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08-08-2013, 09:17 AM
  #434
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Ulf Samuelsson should help DZ.
Maybe. We'll see. I think he can teach Del Zotto to be a little tougher physically and mentally.

But as for enhancing his offensive prowess? Ulf handled the puck like a hand grenade in his day.

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08-08-2013, 09:33 AM
  #435
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Maybe. We'll see. I think he can teach Del Zotto to be a little tougher physically and mentally.

But as for enhancing his offensive prowess? Ulf handled the puck like a hand grenade in his day.
Something like this

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Yandle said he has learned much from assistant coach Ulf Samuelsson, a former NHL player who was known for his combative and stay-at-home defensive style. Learning defensive positioning from Samuelsson is like learning chess from a grandmaster.

"He has really helped me out by getting me to keep it simple defensively and then get up in the play," Yandle said.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...-defense_N.htm

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08-08-2013, 09:41 AM
  #436
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I'd like to see Ulf up the compete level of all the defenseman and add some snarl. Can you imagine McDonagh with a mean streak?

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08-08-2013, 09:42 AM
  #437
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I'd like to see Ulf up the compete level of all the defenseman and add some snarl. Can you imagine McDonagh with a mean streak?
I agree. They have been sitting back too much. Let them go for some open ice hits and play physical.

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08-08-2013, 09:46 AM
  #438
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I do think DZ can learn from Ulfie in the sense that he can teach him how to recognize opportunities to jump into the play or turn the attack up ice. What Del Zotto needs most is his swagger back. He lost that this year. As it is with most young players, one mistake tends to turn into 5, then 10, then 20, and so on until the coach has him stapled to the bench.

Give the kid the keys to the PP. Let him do what he does best.

Edit: As usual, RB beat me to the point about Ulfie.

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08-08-2013, 09:53 AM
  #439
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Samuelsson wrote a blog on playing D in the new NHL in 2008

Quote:
As a coach, you’re trying to improve each player to be the best that he can be. Nowadays, players are so focused and so driven that any kind of help and information they get, they’ll take it and run with it.

You have to be patient when you’re working with younger players. Other than goaltending, I think defense is a position that takes a while to fully understand. To be able to use your experience to your full advantage and become a good defensemen is difficult. In my opinion, it typically takes a little longer to develop a solid understanding for playing defense than it takes to play forward.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...e-new-NHL.html

Staal spoke to Jim Cerny about Samuelsson

Quote:
Staal has had several phone conversations already this summer with one of Vigenault’s assistants, Ulf Samuelsson, and he is thrilled that the former NHL defenseman and two-time Cup winner is on the Rangers staff this season.

“It’s going to be great learning from Ulf, and it will pay big dividends I think for all of our defensemen,” Staal stated. “He’s coached a long time and worked with a lot of different players. And obviously his vast experience in playing the game, and knowing what we go through on a day to day basis, will make him an important guy for all of this season.”

Samuelsson and Staal originally came in contact with one another during the 2006 AHL playoffs when Staal, then just 19 years old, was summoned from Sudbury in the OHL to play for the Hartford Wolf Pack where Ulf was serving as an assistant coach.

“Even in those couple of weeks he gave me some important tips,” recalled Staal. “I think it’s going to be great to have him here now. He played in the NHL for so long and he knows what he is talking about and is a very good coach and a good guy.”
http://blueshirtsunited.com/posts/37...n#.UgOirBYsrFI

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08-08-2013, 09:56 AM
  #440
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Del Zotto needs to become that offensive defenseman. He had 37 points in his first year. 41 points in his 3rd year. He had a 37 point pace in the lockout season.
I think we just got a problem here that we gotta deal with.

Del Zotto is a good offensive defensemen. Not great, but good for sure. He sees the ice really well. He can make plays with the puck.

But:
-Del Zotto is better on the left side than the right side.

-Del Zotto is not so good that you can take away all that much from his game and still consider him a good enough offensive D on a contender, and by moving him to the right side you do just that.

- I just don't see MDZ on the right side becoming "our" offensive D-men. --

-Girardi is too slow to play with Del Zotto. Those two are a disaster together. Even when one of McD and Staal is hurt, we still do not have a good environment for MDZ on the left side.

-An offensive defensemen per definition plays with small marginals. To play with small marginals, you need to play alot and preferebly with the same people.

We need an offensive punch from the blueline.

The concept of offensive defensemens in hockey and the NHL is legit and it is remarkable that we have so little punch from the blueline -- as is.

An offensive defensemen accomplish so much on the ice. Its so easy to collapse down low against a team that doesn't have players on the blueline that open things up. All over the ice, you can defend really well against forwards, but what is so darn hard to do is defend against a team with a D that all of a sudden just skates an eight around a forchecker behind his own net and skates up center ice with the puck. All forechecking systems today are based on forcing the pass up the boards and then shutting down that area. If the D beats the forechecker one on one you loose controll of the forecheck.

Philly is one of the higest scoring teams in the league year in and year out. You cannot overrated the play of Kimmo Timmonen in that context. Hence why they now signed Streit -- while taking a tremendous risk doing do -- to carry the torch next season when Timmonen is gone.

You become a low scoring team when you do not have that ability. And there are so many downsides when you are a low scoring teams besides the obvious in games ones:

-Players are judges by their stats, and loose confidence when they do not put up the stats.

-You bring in a new guy, you often ends up getting someone from a good environment and puts him in a low scoring environment, its often a recipe for disaster. I think Richards and Drury are good examples of that. Philly got value from Briere. He was also a very shaky signing. I rember people tearing apart Det's signing of Rafalski (alot of money at a time the cap was much lower). Rafalski was golden for Detroit. But he was also put in a really high octane offensive environment role.

-Under a cap you need to have flexibility. You get that flexibility by having players with alot of value.

Mike Richards is what he is. For Philly, his last four years he scored 75, 80, 62 and 66 pts. For LA he scored 44 pts in 74 games. Depending on the environment he is in, he will score around 50-70 pts for his team in the NHL. If you get a need to trade him, its so much darn easier to do it if he is closer to 70 than 50. That is just a fact.

But Ola, we need alot of things its not like Slats would turn down a great offensive D if one fell into his laps?

I think enough is enough here. Our best PPQB and offensive D since Leetch left/became old has been Tom Poti. That says it all. If you look at the top 25-30 offensive D's in this league, we haven't had one of them since 2004. Twenty-o-freakin-four. How many players confidence have we burnt because of it? How deep have we etched the notion that we are a low scoring team into the walls of this org?

We have covered this issue lately. Maloney and Renney were given alot of power after the 03' season. Slats went out to media and complained that he was threated like he had shot the prime minister of Canada for his job in NY. He brought in experineced credible hockey people, several of them, and gave them alot of power. If I remember correctly, Slats wasn't even apart of presenting signings etc for a long while (?). Our leadership concluded that to get this extremely unstable, clusterF of an organization out of one of the deepest mess an NHL club ever had been in -- out of it -- we needed a very solid goaltender. We drafted Blackburn. We drafted Montoya. We drafted Hank. We traded for goalies. We signed goalies. This was outspoken, I remember Maloney talking about it. We are going to get a goalie, we won't stop.

-- I think that is the approch we gotta have when it comes to getting a right shooting offensive D. --

I like Hagelin. I like Kreider. I like, love, JT Miller. I like Fasth/Lindberg. Moore. MDZ. I think we gotta think twice about moving more top picks. I don't wanna loose anyone. But I think the value of getting a good offensive right shooting D is higher (or a left shooting D, but then either Staal or McD is moving). There are players out there that could be had, there always is, we just gotta be prepared to pay a price and be prepared to take risks. If it ends up costing us Hags, Miller, Skjei and a 1st, or something like that, in two-three seperate deals before we finally find our guy, so freakin be it, we just need to get one. The cost of being without one is higher.


Last edited by Ola: 08-08-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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Old
08-08-2013, 10:31 AM
  #441
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I agree. They have been sitting back too much. Let them go for some open ice hits and play physical.
I blame Chris Drury.

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08-08-2013, 10:40 AM
  #442
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I'd like to see Ulf up the compete level of all the defenseman and add some snarl. Can you imagine McDonagh with a mean streak?
Agreed. Theres no magic bullet/single player that solves this issue. It has to be a team wide mentality instilled by the coaches and accepted by the players.

Tortorella and Sullivan had that mentality grow within the forwards of the 11-12 team. It wasnt anywhere to be found on the '12-13 team. The defense hasn't played that way in a long, long time.

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08-08-2013, 10:51 AM
  #443
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Ola, just to answer your question about where the team's defense ranks offensively. Last season we were:

17th overall
10th even strength
28th powerplay

The D are obviously part of the powerplay, and bear some of the responsibility. But, if we could just improve the powerplay to middle-of-the-pack, we would have gotten a top 10 offense from our D, overall. There is an argument to be made that our D definitely has the potential to be a top-10 D offensively, if we just had a working powerplay.

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08-08-2013, 11:33 AM
  #444
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Another one bites the dust...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=429395

FREE AGENT ANTROPOV JOINS ASTANA BARYS OF THE KHL

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08-08-2013, 12:49 PM
  #445
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Ola, just to answer your question about where the team's defense ranks offensively. Last season we were:

17th overall
10th even strength
28th powerplay

The D are obviously part of the powerplay, and bear some of the responsibility. But, if we could just improve the powerplay to middle-of-the-pack, we would have gotten a top 10 offense from our D, overall. There is an argument to be made that our D definitely has the potential to be a top-10 D offensively, if we just had a working powerplay.
Yeah, but its been up there along time. We get some pts from them, many of perfectly fine solid plays.

I am not saying that we don't have 6 very good defenders. We definitely do. On some kind of objective scale, our blueline could even be the best in the league -- looking at the value of each respective D and adding it up. But, our blueline as a group is not top 5 due to not having any kind of elite offensive punch. And that shows in them being 28th on the PP for example (where did you find those numbers BTW, I couldn't find them?).

Our D's definitely lack a certain element. You know what you are going to face when you play our team, and its easy to handle for a defending team. We just have nobody that can do what a good PPQB can do, on the PP or 5 on 5.

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08-08-2013, 12:52 PM
  #446
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I -- definitely -- do not think our blueline is close to being top 5. The game is about scoring atleast a goal more than the team you play against. Offense is also part of the game for a blueline.

Is our blueline even top 20 offensively?

We have no PPQB. We had no D in the top 30 in scoring. Of the pts our D's does pick up, there is a whole bunch of not substansial pts. We were 15th in goals scored, and our D's aren't complete stiff and will pick up a fair share of pts. But they have not in any way been involved offensively on a regular basis and been a factor.

To be able to break the pattern. To not get stuck againt a D just playing it safe against you, to be able to get away from a team that gets a grip on you, to have a PP -- its just so darn important to have that guy on the blue line that can lock things up. We don't have much of that at all. Its hard to say that our blueline is a top 10 blueline in this league without that.
Well done. That's exactly the point I've been trying to get across on here and so I'm glad someone else besides myself understands in order to be classified as a top defense in the league, you need to have players who also produce offensively which is something we don't have.

You look at LA(Doughty, Voynov), St Lousi(Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk), Bt oston(Chara, Boychuk, 2 rothe lisokies), Vancouver(Bieksa, etc), Chicago(Keith, etc) and thé list goes on and on.

The offense from our defense is pedestrian at best!

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08-08-2013, 12:56 PM
  #447
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Gone fishin'!
You aint ****tin pal! Boy, talk about a guy stealing money for 13 years. He should wear a mask and go around saying , "stick em up."

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08-08-2013, 01:00 PM
  #448
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Del Zotto needs to mature at this point. 250 games. Every time he struggles I cant help but think the problem is between his ears. He lets poor play manifest itself into a trainwreck at times.
Bingo, we have a winner!

DZ is one of the dumbest high profile guys we have ever drafted in the 1st round. He has a world of talent but he will be hard pressed to maximize it as a result.
To think we picked him ahead of Eberle and Carlson is mind boggling considering the fact that most fans on here will have you believe that our drafts have been so wonderful since 2007 when Gorton got involved!

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08-08-2013, 01:15 PM
  #449
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I'd like to see Ulf up the compete level of all the defenseman and add some snarl. Can you imagine McDonagh with a mean streak?
I get what you're saying but you're either a mean sob or you're not. You can't teach that!

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08-08-2013, 01:17 PM
  #450
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Bingo, we have a winner!

DZ is one of the dumbest high profile guys we have ever drafted in the 1st round. He has a world of talent but he will be hard pressed to maximize it as a result.
To think we picked him ahead of Eberle and Carlson is mind boggling considering the fact that most fans on here will have you believe that our drafts have been so wonderful since 2007 when Gorton got involved!
i like eberle. some caps fans complain about carlsons hockey IQ. are you really calling del zotto a bad pick? that draft year we got stepan and del zotto stepan and kundratek. thats 3 nhl players in the 08 draft. unfortunately we gave kundratek away as a gift to the caps but our drafting has been good in recent years, youre just hating on management.

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