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Simon Gagne- Update 10/15/14: Signs 1 year deal with the Bruins.

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Old
08-01-2013, 01:37 PM
  #376
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I think Laughton gets first crack at the roster spot. If he doesn't work out after 9 games, he gets shipped back to Oshawa. We then either sign someone (maybe Gags), or bring up someone (McGinn, Raffl, Akeson, Noebels, etc)

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08-01-2013, 02:49 PM
  #377
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If I was Gagne, I'd go to the Devils and hope the Flyers have the cap space to trade for me again if the Devils stink, which they likely will.

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08-01-2013, 04:26 PM
  #378
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I can see the Flyers signing him right before camp starts. Obviously no other team is that interested in him right now.

Its been a good career here for Simon but at some point you gotta move on. I think were at that point

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08-07-2013, 09:54 PM
  #379
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too old, too slow, time to retire.

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08-08-2013, 12:13 AM
  #380
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someone who will fight and hit because you know we dont have enough of that.
that'd be awesome if he just became an insane goon.

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08-08-2013, 12:32 AM
  #381
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i think having Gagne in the 3rd lin will help couturier to show his offensive skills

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08-08-2013, 10:14 AM
  #382
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I think Gags signs a tryout contract with Philly in training camp and they move a higher cap hit to the AHL, for AHL pay, then Pronger goes on LITR and they'll have room to sign Gags 2 years 4 mil.

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08-08-2013, 10:26 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by sharpeye97 View Post
I think Gags signs a tryout contract with Philly in training camp and they move a higher cap hit to the AHL, for AHL pay, then Pronger goes on LITR and they'll have room to sign Gags 2 years 4 mil.
2 years? Why?

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08-08-2013, 10:32 AM
  #384
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2 years? Why?
Seriously....if they do decide to sign him it should be at a min for 1 year and at a bargain basement price. Again..do not want regardless.

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08-08-2013, 10:45 AM
  #385
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2 years? Why?
I was throwing out a number Homer would probably do, personally I'd do 1 year, $1.8 mil.

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08-08-2013, 11:09 AM
  #386
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too old, too slow, time to retire.
Too slow? He still has some good wheels on him

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08-08-2013, 11:26 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by sharpeye97 View Post
I think Gags signs a tryout contract with Philly in training camp and they move a higher cap hit to the AHL, for AHL pay, then Pronger goes on LITR and they'll have room to sign Gags 2 years 4 mil.
Yes, if they are going to sign him, and don't make other moves in the interim, I could see inviting him to TCamp, then waiting to sign his contract until day 2, if he was willing to do that.

The risk/danger is that if he gets hurt in TCamp after having agreed to such an arrangement, that you still have to sign him.


I'm not sure his agent would agree to let him go to camp without an agreed upon contract in place ready to be signed day 2 no matter what.

I also think it'll be more like 2 years @ $1.5MM per, maybe $1.75MM.

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08-08-2013, 11:27 AM
  #388
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The last time Gagne was an effective player was the 2009-2010 playoffs. His ship sailed awhile ago. Let's move on and get some more youth in here.

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08-08-2013, 11:40 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
The last time Gagne was an effective player was the 2009-2010 playoffs. His ship sailed awhile ago.
Aside from his injury issues, this statement is completely incorrect. Last year, he didn't have a great PPG pace, but the years prior to that he was scoring at at least a .5 PPG pace. He was unable to stay healthy for a full 82, that is true, but when he was on the ice he has been effective. Having Gagne out there, if only for 40 games and the rest of the time having McGinn/Akeson/Straka/whomever filling in is better than just having one of them in there or rotating them. Getting more games out of Gagne would be a bonus. This obsession with youth is getting old (no pun intended). Younger doesn't mean better and having potential doesn't mean better. It's not the end of the world if Gagne isn't re-signed, but not icing the better team in hopes that one of our mediocre prospects can play the same way we know Gagne can play isn't a great move.

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Let's move on and get some more youth in here.
For the people who are saying this, what do you expect out of a third line winger? I don't think there is any expectation to have McGinn/Akeson/Straka/whomever score at a higher pace than Gagne did last year with the Flyers, and I don't think anyone is legitimately arguing that those guys are better defensively than Gagne.

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08-08-2013, 11:51 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Aside from his injury issues, this statement is completely incorrect. Last year, he didn't have a great PPG pace, but the years prior to that he was scoring at at least a .5 PPG pace. He was unable to stay healthy for a full 82, that is true, but when he was on the ice he has been effective. Having Gagne out there, if only for 40 games and the rest of the time having McGinn/Akeson/Straka/whomever filling in is better than just having one of them in there or rotating them. Getting more games out of Gagne would be a bonus. This obsession with youth is getting old (no pun intended). Younger doesn't mean better and having potential doesn't mean better. It's not the end of the world if Gagne isn't re-signed, but not icing the better team in hopes that one of our mediocre prospects can play the same way we know Gagne can play isn't a great move.



For the people who are saying this, what do you expect out of a third line winger? I don't think there is any expectation to have McGinn/Akeson/Straka/whomever score at a higher pace than Gagne did last year with the Flyers, and I don't think anyone is legitimately arguing that those guys are better defensively than Gagne.
I'll take 82 games of Tye McGinn's tenacity over an injury prone, tentative Simon Gagne. Gagne's asset to this team would be on the power play, and not much else. His game has completely changed since the head injuries, it's a shame but it's not worth arguing over.

Completely incorrect though? That's a bit of a stretch, no? He hasn't been a factor since that cup run, in really any situation, for any team.

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08-08-2013, 11:53 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
For the people who are saying this, what do you expect out of a third line winger? I don't think there is any expectation to have McGinn/Akeson/Straka/whomever score at a higher pace than Gagne did last year with the Flyers, and I don't think anyone is legitimately arguing that those guys are better defensively than Gagne.
You're looking at this is an incredibly short term light from a purely numerical perspective. My reasons for not wanting Gagne are pretty simple:

1. I think he's far too injury prone and we already have too many LTIR liabilities to risk plopping another player on and getting even more overage penalties than we already will have in 2014.

2. It's not that Gagne has to be better than McGinn et al. It's that he needs to be 2-3x as good to overcome the salary differential.

3. I want there to be a spot for competition. We have a plethora of borderline NHL players right now between Laughton, McGinn, and, later in the year, perhaps Straka, Noebels, Akeson, Flannigan, etc. I want there to be something for those guys to come to camp and feel like they are fighting for. When you see guys fighting for a spot, it can improve everyone's game.

4. Gagne is a short term bandaid for a team that I believe is unlikely to be a cup contender this season. I don't see Gagne as putting us over the top and certainly don't view him as an option when we are ready to realistically win it all in 1-3 years.

5. No other NHL team seems to be banging down the Gagne door right now either, so perhaps the take that he's a shell of his former self is shared by more than just the Flyers.

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08-08-2013, 12:05 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
I'll take 82 games of Tye McGinn's tenacity over an injury prone, tentative Simon Gagne. Gagne's asset to this team would be on the power play, and not much else. His game has completely changed since the head injuries, it's a shame but it's not worth arguing over.

Completely incorrect though? That's a bit of a stretch, no? He hasn't been a factor since that cup run, in really any situation, for any team.
Last year I will agree, he wasn't playing great. Not terrible while on Philly, but he wasn't on my list of standouts for sure. But the prior three years he hadn't scored less than .5 PPG in a season. How is that not an effective player? Again, the health issues I get, but when he is on the ice, he was effective.

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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
You're looking at this is an incredibly short term light from a purely numerical perspective. My reasons for not wanting Gagne are pretty simple:

1. I think he's far too injury prone and we already have too many LTIR liabilities to risk plopping another player on and getting even more overage penalties than we already will have in 2014.
Who else is injury prone? Mesz (if he's even here)?

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2. It's not that Gagne has to be better than McGinn et al. It's that he needs to be 2-3x as good to overcome the salary differential.
Really? What is Gagne's salary going to be? If it is $4 million, yeah then I would agree, but if it is between $1-$2 million, I'm not sure I'd agree with that.

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3. I want there to be a spot for competition. We have a plethora of borderline NHL players right now between Laughton, McGinn, and, later in the year, perhaps Straka, Noebels, Akeson, Flannigan, etc. I want there to be something for those guys to come to camp and feel like they are fighting for. When you see guys fighting for a spot, it can improve everyone's game.
But it can also amount to nothing. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. With the exception of Laughton (whom I have not included really my POV on this situation because I am not as convinced as most of you that he'll be playing 3W this season. though if he is I would rather have Laughton than Gagne), I think the absolute best you can hope for is a guy who can match Gagne's offensive abilities and maybe come close defensively. And that is at best. More likely it will be a guy who is not as good offensively and not as good defensively. Why put them out there simply because they are younger?

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4. Gagne is a short term bandaid for a team that I believe is unlikely to be a cup contender this season. I don't see Gagne as putting us over the top and certainly don't view him as an option when we are ready to realistically win it all in 1-3 years.
He's not a bandaid, he's a better option than what we have. I'm not saying give him a ten year deal. Sign him for a year because he is better than what the Flyers have and he is presumably affordable. The Tye McGinn's of the world will still be here next year.

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5. No other NHL team seems to be banging down the Gagne door right now either, so perhaps the take that he's a shell of his former self is shared by more than just the Flyers.
That may be true, and again, if that's the case, I don't want him. If he can't play in the NHL, I don't want him here. But there were also rumors around about the Flyers having a deal in place already so it may not be that teams aren't interested, but rather Gagne isn't interested.

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08-08-2013, 12:14 PM
  #393
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Pass on Gags. Let the younger generation of orange and black play and find a niche.

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08-08-2013, 12:23 PM
  #394
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Last year I will agree, he wasn't playing great. Not terrible while on Philly, but he wasn't on my list of standouts for sure. But the prior three years he hadn't scored less than .5 PPG in a season. How is that not an effective player? Again, the health issues I get, but when he is on the ice, he was effective.



Who else is injury prone? Mesz (if he's even here)?



Really? What is Gagne's salary going to be? If it is $4 million, yeah then I would agree, but if it is between $1-$2 million, I'm not sure I'd agree with that.



But it can also amount to nothing. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. With the exception of Laughton (whom I have not included really my POV on this situation because I am not as convinced as most of you that he'll be playing 3W this season. though if he is I would rather have Laughton than Gagne), I think the absolute best you can hope for is a guy who can match Gagne's offensive abilities and maybe come close defensively. And that is at best. More likely it will be a guy who is not as good offensively and not as good defensively. Why put them out there simply because they are younger?



He's not a bandaid, he's a better option than what we have. I'm not saying give him a ten year deal. Sign him for a year because he is better than what the Flyers have and he is presumably affordable. The Tye McGinn's of the world will still be here next year.



That may be true, and again, if that's the case, I don't want him. If he can't play in the NHL, I don't want him here. But there were also rumors around about the Flyers having a deal in place already so it may not be that teams aren't interested, but rather Gagne isn't interested.

Death (of a debate) by a thousand parses...


Now I know Gagne is going to be of limited added value simply by the fact that you are defending the notion of signing him.

I'm on board with BSE's cogent points.....and I will add that one of the reasons I don't want him and I admit is extremely ancillarly is simply the fact that I'm tired of recycling old Flyers when their shelf life has been exceeded. It's like we run a halfway house. I understand this loyality to former Flyers and family deal that is promoted by Snider but I want it to stop...and I wish it would start with Gagne..at least for this season.

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08-08-2013, 12:28 PM
  #395
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i think having Gagne in the 3rd lin will help couturier to show his offensive skills
That's the thing...

I'm not so sure Gagne is a better option for developing Couturier's offensive game than Laughton or McGinn.

I'm not saying that Gagne isn't a stronger pure offensive player than Laughton or McGinn at this point. I'm not saying that Gagne isn't a stronger defensive player than either of them at this point either.

I just think, with Read on the other wing, that Couturier's offensive game is going to come as long as there is somebody who can open up space for them.

I'm concerned about the lack of physicality on a Gagne - Couturier - Read line. I think that even though it's defensively epic and probably considerably capable offensively, it could have issues pressuring the puck without somebody to make life chaotic for opposing defenses. Laughton and McGinn can do that.

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08-08-2013, 12:36 PM
  #396
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That's the thing...

I'm not so sure Gagne is a better option for developing Couturier's offensive game than Laughton or McGinn.

I'm not saying that Gagne isn't a stronger pure offensive player than Laughton or McGinn at this point. I'm not saying that Gagne isn't a stronger defensive player than either of them at this point either.

I just think, with Read on the other wing, that Couturier's offensive game is going to come as long as there is somebody who can open up space for them.

I'm concerned about the lack of physicality on a Gagne - Couturier - Read line. I think that even though it's defensively epic and probably considerably capable offensively, it could have issues pressuring the puck without somebody to make life chaotic for opposing defenses. Laughton and McGinn can do that.

Against tight checking teams which we already have problems against..Gagne's perimeter play is useless. Like you said a player like Laughton or McGinn will get their noses dirty and create space... more so than Gagne trying to use his skating to jump into nonexistent holes like Briere tried to do last year...

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08-08-2013, 12:48 PM
  #397
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Against tight checking teams which we already have problems against..Gagne's perimeter play is useless. Like you said a player like Laughton or McGinn will get their noses dirty and create space... more so than Gagne trying to use his skating to jump into nonexistent holes like Briere tried to do last year...
Gagne was my favorite player growing up. I would love him on this team.

If we had traded Read, he would've been my favorite option to sit on Couturier's wing and expand his defensive training while adding some skillful offense.

That said, Couturier needs someone to open up space physically for his line. Laughton and McGinn are the better option at this point...coming from a HUGE Gagne fan.

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08-08-2013, 01:35 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Death (of a debate) by a thousand parses...


Now I know Gagne is going to be of limited added value simply by the fact that you are defending the notion of signing him.

I'm on board with BSE's cogent points.....and I will add that one of the reasons I don't want him and I admit is extremely ancillarly is simply the fact that I'm tired of recycling old Flyers when their shelf life has been exceeded. It's like we run a halfway house. I understand this loyality to former Flyers and family deal that is promoted by Snider but I want it to stop...and I wish it would start with Gagne..at least for this season.
This has nothing to do with Flyers loyalty. If there was another player in the mix that had the same abilities as Gagne, I would rather have him as well. With the exception of Laughton (whom I said I would prefer to Gagne, but I am not convinced the Flyers are going to move him to wing), none of the other players bring to the table what Gagne does. I don't think it is reasonable to say that McGinn, Straka, Akeson, or whomever else is going to score 30-40 points and be defensively responsible. It is possible, sure, but I think that is the absolute bset case scenario which doesn't happen too often. So you sign Gagne for a year. If he gets hurt, then one of the other guys plays anyway and you get a number of games out of Gagne.

No one is expecting Gagne to score 40 goals and win a Selke. He's a third liner and can put up third line numbers. The others are guys who may one day be third liners and may one day put up third line numbers. It's not like these are blue chip guys that need to get to the NHL right now or their development will be stunted. They are topping out at third line players, who can be replaced through free agency or the draft on a yearly basis. Younger doesn't always mean better.

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I just think, with Read on the other wing, that Couturier's offensive game is going to come as long as there is somebody who can open up space for them.

I'm concerned about the lack of physicality on a Gagne - Couturier - Read line. I think that even though it's defensively epic and probably considerably capable offensively, it could have issues pressuring the puck without somebody to make life chaotic for opposing defenses. Laughton and McGinn can do that.
This actually makes sense and is a much better argument than saying Gagne sucks. TBH, I'm not all that concerned with it because this line is not going to be counted on for scoring. Obvjously any scoring you can get out of your third line is a good thing, but their role is not going to be to win games on the scoreboard. Putting McGinn out there could help open it up offensively for Read and Couturier, but will hurt a lot defensively, an area that this team struggled last year.

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08-08-2013, 02:32 PM
  #399
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Gagne is still a solid two-way forward and excellent veteran presence. I'd be pretty happy to have him on the team at the right price.

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08-08-2013, 03:01 PM
  #400
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Gagne is still a solid two-way forward and excellent veteran presence. I'd be pretty happy to have him on the team at the right price.
Me too.

Though I argued why I think it's a better idea to have a physical presence on the Couturier line, I think Gagne - Couturier - Read will be just fine as well as incredible defensively.

That won't change that I'm concerned about it being a really soft line generally speaking, but I won't necessarily condemn Holmgren for going in that direction.

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