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Old
08-08-2013, 12:18 PM
  #451
NYR Viper
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Bingo, we have a winner!

DZ is one of the dumbest high profile guys we have ever drafted in the 1st round. He has a world of talent but he will be hard pressed to maximize it as a result.
To think we picked him ahead of Eberle and Carlson is mind boggling considering the fact that most fans on here will have you believe that our drafts have been so wonderful since 2007 when Gorton got involved!
What a joke.

He was also drafted after such superstars as:
Nikita Filatov
Kyle Beach
Josh Bailey
Colton Teubert
Zack Boychuk
Joe Colborne
Chet Pickard


After him we had:
Anton Gustafsson
Tyler Cuma
Mattias Tedenby
Greg Nemisz
Viktor Tikhonov
Dalton Leveille
Thomas McCollum

But hey, I think you should pick and choose using hindsight to say that if he isn't the best player in the draft, that it was an utter failure. How's that work for you in real life?

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08-08-2013, 12:22 PM
  #452
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#NYR asst gm Jeff Gorton says takks will resume with both Lundqvist and Stepan soon...remains optimistic on both
https://twitter.com/JimCerny/status/365517242835804160

Quote:
Regarding Lundqvist, Gorton said both sides want deal done. Wouldn't discount that sides could continue negotiating when season starts.
https://twitter.com/AGrossRecord/sta...15601776615424

Quote:
Gorton: Confident a deal with C Derek Stepan will get done but not imminent. More coming on Blue Notes
https://twitter.com/stevezipay/statu...13699408101377

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NYRs AGM Gorton says talks expected to resume with Lundqvist on extension when he returns from Sweden
https://twitter.com/stevezipay/statu...12772731154432

Quote:
Both Callahan and Hagelin expected to skate in training camp. Gorton not sure of timetable when they might play. Probably not ready at start
https://twitter.com/AGrossRecord/sta...11075027890178

Quote:
Gorton says both Asham and Powe will come to training camp to compete for spots. They must clear waivers again.
https://twitter.com/AGrossRecord/sta...10791622967296

Quote:
Gorton says Rangers prefer not to exceed cap, as they can by 10 percent in summer. Knows that complicates Stepan talks.
https://twitter.com/AGrossRecord/sta...10606587035649

Those are the updates

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08-08-2013, 12:28 PM
  #453
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if hank gets extended before stepan signs, should stepan be offended?

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Old
08-08-2013, 12:30 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think we just got a problem here that we gotta deal with.

Del Zotto is a good offensive defensemen. Not great, but good for sure. He sees the ice really well. He can make plays with the puck.

But:
-Del Zotto is better on the left side than the right side.

-Del Zotto is not so good that you can take away all that much from his game and still consider him a good enough offensive D on a contender, and by moving him to the right side you do just that.

- I just don't see MDZ on the right side becoming "our" offensive D-men. --

-Girardi is too slow to play with Del Zotto. Those two are a disaster together. Even when one of McD and Staal is hurt, we still do not have a good environment for MDZ on the left side.

-An offensive defensemen per definition plays with small marginals. To play with small marginals, you need to play alot and preferebly with the same people.

We need an offensive punch from the blueline.

The concept of offensive defensemens in hockey and the NHL is legit and it is remarkable that we have so little punch from the blueline -- as is.

An offensive defensemen accomplish so much on the ice. Its so easy to collapse down low against a team that doesn't have players on the blueline that open things up. All over the ice, you can defend really well against forwards, but what is so darn hard to do is defend against a team with a D that all of a sudden just skates an eight around a forchecker behind his own net and skates up center ice with the puck. All forechecking systems today are based on forcing the pass up the boards and then shutting down that area. If the D beats the forechecker one on one you loose controll of the forecheck.

Philly is one of the higest scoring teams in the league year in and year out. You cannot overrated the play of Kimmo Timmonen in that context. Hence why they now signed Streit -- while taking a tremendous risk doing do -- to carry the torch next season when Timmonen is gone.

You become a low scoring team when you do not have that ability. And there are so many downsides when you are a low scoring teams besides the obvious in games ones:

-Players are judges by their stats, and loose confidence when they do not put up the stats.

-You bring in a new guy, you often ends up getting someone from a good environment and puts him in a low scoring environment, its often a recipe for disaster. I think Richards and Drury are good examples of that. Philly got value from Briere. He was also a very shaky signing. I rember people tearing apart Det's signing of Rafalski (alot of money at a time the cap was much lower). Rafalski was golden for Detroit. But he was also put in a really high octane offensive environment role.

-Under a cap you need to have flexibility. You get that flexibility by having players with alot of value.

Mike Richards is what he is. For Philly, his last four years he scored 75, 80, 62 and 66 pts. For LA he scored 44 pts in 74 games. Depending on the environment he is in, he will score around 50-70 pts for his team in the NHL. If you get a need to trade him, its so much darn easier to do it if he is closer to 70 than 50. That is just a fact.

But Ola, we need alot of things its not like Slats would turn down a great offensive D if one fell into his laps?

I think enough is enough here. Our best PPQB and offensive D since Leetch left/became old has been Tom Poti. That says it all. If you look at the top 25-30 offensive D's in this league, we haven't had one of them since 2004. Twenty-o-freakin-four. How many players confidence have we burnt because of it? How deep have we etched the notion that we are a low scoring team into the walls of this org?

We have covered this issue lately. Maloney and Renney were given alot of power after the 03' season. Slats went out to media and complained that he was threated like he had shot the prime minister of Canada for his job in NY. He brought in experineced credible hockey people, several of them, and gave them alot of power. If I remember correctly, Slats wasn't even apart of presenting signings etc for a long while (?). Our leadership concluded that to get this extremely unstable, clusterF of an organization out of one of the deepest mess an NHL club ever had been in -- out of it -- we needed a very solid goaltender. We drafted Blackburn. We drafted Montoya. We drafted Hank. We traded for goalies. We signed goalies. This was outspoken, I remember Maloney talking about it. We are going to get a goalie, we won't stop.

-- I think that is the approch we gotta have when it comes to getting a right shooting offensive D. --

I like Hagelin. I like Kreider. I like, love, JT Miller. I like Fasth/Lindberg. Moore. MDZ. I think we gotta think twice about moving more top picks. I don't wanna loose anyone. But I think the value of getting a good offensive right shooting D is higher (or a left shooting D, but then either Staal or McD is moving). There are players out there that could be had, there always is, we just gotta be prepared to pay a price and be prepared to take risks. If it ends up costing us Hags, Miller, Skjei and a 1st, or something like that, in two-three seperate deals before we finally find our guy, so freakin be it, we just need to get one. The cost of being without one is higher.
This is a terrific post, objective and truthful to a fault. The problem is we won't take chances as organization until/unless the "Teflon GM" takes a hike and we replace him with a GM who has balls! Me? I wood hire Burke in a heartbeat to replace Sather!

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Old
08-08-2013, 12:32 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
What a joke.

He was also drafted after such superstars as:
Nikita Filatov
Kyle Beach
Josh Bailey
Colton Teubert
Zack Boychuk
Joe Colborne
Chet Pickard


After him we had:
Anton Gustafsson
Tyler Cuma
Mattias Tedenby
Greg Nemisz
Viktor Tikhonov
Dalton Leveille
Thomas McCollum

But hey, I think you should pick and choose using hindsight to say that if he isn't the best player in the draft, that it was an utter failure. How's that work for you in real life?
Works pretty good pal. Btw, everybody knew who the hell Carlson and Eberle were so it wouldn't have been a reach to draft them over Del Zaster!

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08-08-2013, 12:35 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Works pretty good pal. Btw, everybody knew who the hell Carlson and Eberle were so it wouldn't have been a reach to draft them over Del Zaster!
youre clearly just hating on del zotto and the management with no real reason at all. youre just grasping at straws.

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Old
08-08-2013, 12:39 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
i like eberle. some caps fans complain about carlsons hockey IQ. are you really calling del zotto a bad pick? that draft year we got stepan and del zotto stepan and kundratek. thats 3 nhl players in the 08 draft. unfortunately we gave kundratek away as a gift to the caps but our drafting has been good in recent years, youre just hating on management.
You're correct; I despise our management from the owner on down to the GM! Please explain to me how our drafting has been so much better lately?

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Old
08-08-2013, 12:40 PM
  #458
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What is the point of not utilizing the 10% summer cushion? Unless they are only using that as an argument to get Stepan's demands down it is idiotic. And if they are it is quite transparent as there would be no other reason to do it.

Get Stepan signed to a long term deal, otherwise we'll have to pay him Couture money in a few seasons.

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Old
08-08-2013, 12:43 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
What is the point of not utilizing the 10% summer cushion? Unless they are only using that as an argument to get Stepan's demands down it is idiotic. And if they are it is quite transparent as there would be no other reason to do it.

Get Stepan signed to a long term deal, otherwise we'll have to pay him Couture money in a few seasons.
What is the point of using it? It would be 100% a short-term fix.

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Old
08-08-2013, 12:48 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Works pretty good pal. Btw, everybody knew who the hell Carlson and Eberle were so it wouldn't have been a reach to draft them over Del Zaster!
Master of hindsight hard at work again.

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Old
08-08-2013, 12:55 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
What a joke.

He was also drafted after such superstars as:
Nikita Filatov
Kyle Beach
Josh Bailey
Colton Teubert
Zack Boychuk
Joe Colborne
Chet Pickard


After him we had:
Anton Gustafsson
Tyler Cuma
Mattias Tedenby
Greg Nemisz
Viktor Tikhonov
Dalton Leveille
Thomas McCollum

But hey, I think you should pick and choose using hindsight to say that if he isn't the best player in the draft, that it was an utter failure. How's that work for you in real life?
Btw, don't put words in my mouth! I never implied that drafting Del Zotto was an utter failure; I just merely stated that selecting Eberle and/or Carlson would have been the wiser choice. Del Zotto has a world of talent but he will be hard pressed to maximize his talent because of his low hockey IQ. If he doesn't make greater strides this year(including not playing brain dead in the playoffs which has been his mo the past 2 years) than I would look to move him in june!

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Old
08-08-2013, 12:57 PM
  #462
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What is the point of using it? It would be 100% a short-term fix.
We can use it, and then waive the dead weight so we get under.

We have about 2 billion forwards on 1M deals on the cap right now and Aaron freaking Johnson. At least 2-3 guys are getting waived and that is roughly 2.5M in cap space, use that so we can sign Stepan 6 or more years rather than just 2 and have to pay through the nose on his next deal.

We're not even paying for potential like Philly did with JvR, we would be paying for him to just not regress too much. Top 10 center in the league last season, if he can put up 60-70pts while providing elite D that is something I'd love to lock up for a long time at ~5M.

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Old
08-08-2013, 01:00 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Master of hindsight hard at work again.
Some of the most illogical posting I have seen in awhile. Claiming Del Zotto is awful when he is one of the up and coming young offensive defensemen in the league (his point totals are impressive for his age) and his defensive game improved significantly last season when we needed it most. And to point out TWO, only TWO, prospects that could've been drafted over him is PATHETIC. I guess the 20-25 other organizations are the worst as well (even though there are SC winners in there from the last 5 years).

I'll mark this one down along with the nay sayers on Kreider, Richards, Boyle, and Pouliot.


Last edited by Jabroni: 08-08-2013 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Flaming.
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Old
08-08-2013, 01:01 PM
  #464
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youre clearly just hating on del zotto and the management with no real reason at all. youre just grasping at straws.
I'm hating on the management for "No Reason at All??". With "The Teflon GM" here for 13 years during which time we have had 6 coaches, lousy drafts, and no Stanley Cups, are you freakin serious making a dumb statement like that?

As far as Mr Del Zotto goes, I'm not hating on him; I'm merely stating a fact based on his stunted development and lousy play during the past 2 playoffs.

Time to get your head out of the sand and wake up to reality!

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08-08-2013, 01:02 PM
  #465
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The Rangers would have to offer Stepan like what, a 6 year deal to buy any UFA years?

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08-08-2013, 01:02 PM
  #466
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I don't think you can get enough space to sign Stepan to a six year deal just by waiving guys. Unless you waive most of them and play 9 forwards and 4 D.

And I don't see a big hurry to sign him long term. He is 4 seasons away from UFA years. They should use the cap flexibility while they can.

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08-08-2013, 01:03 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
What is the point of not utilizing the 10% summer cushion? Unless they are only using that as an argument to get Stepan's demands down it is idiotic. And if they are it is quite transparent as there would be no other reason to do it.

Get Stepan signed to a long term deal, otherwise we'll have to pay him Couture money in a few seasons.
I love Stepan but please don't place him in Couture's class as a player!

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08-08-2013, 01:06 PM
  #468
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I don't really see the point of locking up Stepan for 6 years right now.. We are clearly up against the cap, and the cap is expected to rise in a few years. Are we going to kill all our depth again just to sign Stepan to a long term deal?

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08-08-2013, 01:11 PM
  #469
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He sounds like a freaking idiot. Some of the most illogical posting I have seen in awhile. Claiming Del Zotto is awful when he is one of the up and coming young offensive defensemen in the league (his point totals are impressive for his age) and his defensive game improved significantly last season when we needed it most. And to point out TWO, only TWO, prospects that could've been drafted over him is PATHETIC. I guess the 20-25 other organizations are the worst as well (even though there are SC winners in there from the last 5 years).

Guy is an idiot. I'll mark this one down along with the nay sayers on Kreider, Richards, Boyle, and Pouliot.
I never stated Del Zotto is awful; go re-read my post because your reading comprehension is lousy.

I've forgotten more about hockey than you will ever know pal!


Last edited by Jabroni: 08-08-2013 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Flaming.
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08-08-2013, 01:11 PM
  #470
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I wonder if people know that Del Zotto at his age has put up more points than Letang did at the same age.. despite playing with guys far inferior to Crosby and Malkin!.

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08-08-2013, 01:13 PM
  #471
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I don't really see the point of locking up Stepan for 6 years right now.. We are clearly up against the cap, and the cap is expected to rise in a few years. Are we going to kill all our depth again just to sign Stepan to a long term deal?
Agree 100%! The guy has had one really good year in a strike shortened season and you're gonna pay him mega bucks when he really hasn't proven anything yet?

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08-08-2013, 01:15 PM
  #472
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Agree 100%! The guy has had one really good year in a strike shortened season and you're gonna pay him mega bucks when he really hasn't proven anything yet?
Hasn't proven anything yet? Just laughable.

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08-08-2013, 01:17 PM
  #473
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I wonder if people know that Del Zotto at his age has put up more points than Letang did at the same age.. despite playing with guys far inferior to Crosby and Malkin!.
That's wonderful news but I'll say it again; if DZ doesn't make far greater strides in his overall game this year, I would look to move him this june.

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08-08-2013, 01:17 PM
  #474
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Agree 100%! The guy has had one really good year in a strike shortened season and you're gonna pay him mega bucks when he really hasn't proven anything yet?
Except he has, He's been in the league 3 years, and his #'s both offensively and defensively have gone up each season. Rangers if they had the cap space, would lock him up long term IMO.. The reason not to is he's 4 years away from UFA, so even if we gave him 6 years, thats only taking 2 years of his UFA.. Do the 2 year bridge contract, then after that lock him up for 6 years, which buys out 4 UFA years.

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08-08-2013, 01:18 PM
  #475
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Hasn't proven anything yet? Just laughable.
Yeah man he's still a scrub.




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