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Old
08-08-2013, 10:18 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Great plan but why would the Canadiens trade Subban?
Because they want to fleece us again just like they did by acquiring Gomer?

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08-08-2013, 10:30 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
He obviously meant Del Zotto and Miller + is not even worth Subban alone let alone a pick.. I like both of them, but Subban is a dynamite player.
What is the +?

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08-09-2013, 12:51 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Once again, we have a failure to read and understand what I wrote. All I've been saying since DZ has been here is that he won't maximize his God given ability because he has a low hockey IQ. How many braindead performances that spring out of nowhere does he have to have before some people around here get it or did we all of a sudden forget all of the DZ trashings that inundated this site after last season's playoffs?

Btw, I'm not the only poster around her who refers to DZ as Del Zaster.
Selective Amnesia doesn't fly around here!
Once again, I'll remind you I have read your pessimistic posts very clearly. Don't back track now. You have bashed MDZ thoroughly. There is no failure on my part to read. I understood what you wrote, don't downplay it now. You made it very clear that IN YOUR OPINION you feel DZ has a low hockey IQ and he has been a horror show in the playoffs (which is not entirely true when you look at the facts).

And brain-dead performances? He is just 23 years old. He is rounding out his game. His game was significantly better in his own end last year. McDonagh had some "brain-dead" games last year but I don't hear you saying crap about him. Of course not because you simply don't like Del Zotto.

I really don't see Del Zaster written often, just from you sir. But hey, thank you for your quality response to my lengthy post of FACTS. All you have to offer is DZ has a low IQ and you made sure you defended yourself again claiming you aren't calling him awful (which, I gotta say again, striking similarities between the words awful and disaster). It'd be one thing if you sat here and acknowledged some of the positives MDZ has, but you haven't. You don't offer any opportunity for a quality hockey discussion. You ooze negativity and the sky is falling mentality just so you can tell all the Rangers FANS 'I told you so.'

The fact of the matter is MDZ has been the leading scorer on defense for 3 of the last 4 years. Does he have flaws? Sure he does. He is not perfect otherwise he'd be up for the Norris already. He is getting better every year. And to be honest, for him to be sent down to the AHL after his rookie year, get hurt, and then come back the way he did in 2011-2012, shows a lot of damn good character from such a young man.

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That's a very reasonable assumption on your part. I hope I end up eating crow when all is said and done regarding Stepan's ceiling and Del Zotto's as wll!
Typical pessimistic remark. Always gotta make sure you cover your back by stating you'll eat crow, but realistically you are not rooting for those players so that you'll have to admit you were wrong.



It truly amazes me why some people even bother stating they are a fan of a team if they are just going to be so damn negative about that team. Find every little thing wrong with the team and/or the players on the team. Why bother? Be a devils fan or an islanders fan then. No one is forcing you to support the rangers. And this is not to say we don't look at things objectively, but we also don't bury every player six feet under.

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08-09-2013, 12:56 AM
  #554
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Del Zotto is a bigger whipping boy than Boyle on here... yet the same people will seem to defend Kreider to death, despite Del Zotto proving a hell of a lot more.. weird.

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Old
08-09-2013, 01:00 AM
  #555
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We really need some hockey to talk about. Rangers prospects Skjei and Nieves both made the cut this past week for WJC consideration. Both should make the team. Two very solid prospects from last season's draft. Skjei is very underrated around here. He was a safe pick, but I really like his tools. McDonagh lite.

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08-09-2013, 01:03 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
We really need some hockey to talk about. Rangers prospects Skjei and Nieves both made the cut this past week for WJC consideration. Both should make the team. Two very solid prospects from last season's draft. Skjei is very underrated around here. He was a safe pick, but I really like his tools. McDonagh lite.
it seems we do a good job at drafting as long as its defense, but our drafting for forwards leaves alot to be desired.

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08-09-2013, 01:06 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Del Zotto is a bigger whipping boy than Boyle on here... yet the same people will seem to defend Kreider to death, despite Del Zotto proving a hell of a lot more.. weird.
I actually defend all three of those guys.

Boyle is a very valuable asset. However, if you expect him to be something he is not then you will be sorely disappointed. If put in the right roles, he will be invaluable to the team's success. Faceoffs, 4th line responsibilities until he proves he deserves more, PKing, and forechecking/physical game are important to this team.

I've already gone over Del Zotto's value a few pages back. It's hard to ignore his production in his still young career, however, some here do. He is crucial to this team's offense, especially the PP. Good skating ability and vision for outlet passes are huge.

I think Kreider is the biggest X factor for this squad this year. They need him to be productive. And I think his best opportunity for that to happen will be playing with Nash. But they certainly need him to produce to get them into the playoffs.

But yes, it is frustrating to see the complainers and nay sayers on this board constantly put down the team they claim they support.

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08-09-2013, 01:12 AM
  #558
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
We really need some hockey to talk about. Rangers prospects Skjei and Nieves both made the cut this past week for WJC consideration. Both should make the team. Two very solid prospects from last season's draft. Skjei is very underrated around here. He was a safe pick, but I really like his tools. McDonagh lite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
it seems we do a good job at drafting as long as its defense, but our drafting for forwards leaves alot to be desired.
I watched Skjei briefly last year. I haven't seen Nieves other than in rangers camp. I hear great things about Nieves, I hope he takes his game to another level this year. And obviously it would be great if Skjei can become a McDonagh lite.

I don't think our forward drafting has been great but it also hasn't been horrendous. Stepan, Callahan, Kreider, and Hagelin are playing on the NHL roster. We had Dubi and Anisimov until last July. Miller and Fasth aren't too far off imo. And Sather and Gorton have made some slick moves to bring in prospects like Lindberg and Kristo.

Again there are no "elites" in there but its hard to get "elite" when you don't draft in the top 5-10 ever.

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08-09-2013, 01:16 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
it seems we do a good job at drafting as long as its defense, but our drafting for forwards leaves alot to be desired.
We're good at drafting and signing top end defenseman. Until the recent string of junior league free agent signings, the defensive cupboard depth was very shallow.

We draft very good forwards. Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan, Hagelin, Cherepanov (RIP), and Korpikoski, etc., are all very good or would've been very good with us. Derek Stepan is the only 1st line talent we drafted in over 10 years.

The problem with drafting a 1st line forward is that draft trends over the past five years or so tilt heavily in favor of forwards being selected before defensemen. Exhibit A: Seth Jones falling to #4 overall despite being the best defensive prospect since Drew Doughty. We haven't drafted high enough with the exception of 2010 to be in a position to draft 1st line talent. Finding Stepan was a stroke of luck and excellent scouting.

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08-09-2013, 01:24 AM
  #560
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I actually defend all three of those guys.

Boyle is a very valuable asset. However, if you expect him to be something he is not then you will be sorely disappointed. If put in the right roles, he will be invaluable to the team's success. Faceoffs, 4th line responsibilities until he proves he deserves more, PKing, and forechecking/physical game are important to this team.

I've already gone over Del Zotto's value a few pages back. It's hard to ignore his production in his still young career, however, some here do. He is crucial to this team's offense, especially the PP. Good skating ability and vision for outlet passes are huge.

I think Kreider is the biggest X factor for this squad this year. They need him to be productive. And I think his best opportunity for that to happen will be playing with Nash. But they certainly need him to produce to get them into the playoffs.

But yes, it is frustrating to see the complainers and nay sayers on this board constantly put down the team they claim they support.
with Hagelin possibly out to start the season, we just might see Kreider with Stepan and Nash early on.

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08-09-2013, 01:25 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I watched Skjei briefly last year. I haven't seen Nieves other than in rangers camp. I hear great things about Nieves, I hope he takes his game to another level this year. And obviously it would be great if Skjei can become a McDonagh lite.

I don't think our forward drafting has been great but it also hasn't been horrendous. Stepan, Callahan, Kreider, and Hagelin are playing on the NHL roster. We had Dubi and Anisimov until last July. Miller and Fasth aren't too far off imo. And Sather and Gorton have made some slick moves to bring in prospects like Lindberg and Kristo.

Again there are no "elites" in there but its hard to get "elite" when you don't draft in the top 5-10 ever.
Yeah, true, no "elite" players, but some very good ones lately. I'm also high on Miller, I believe he's absolutely a top 6 player for us soon.

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08-09-2013, 01:36 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Yeah, true, no "elite" players, but some very good ones lately. I'm also high on Miller, I believe he's absolutely a top 6 player for us soon.
I'm very excited about what Miller and Lindberg can do. Miller may need a full year in the AHL before he's ready for top 9 duty. Besides games against the Islanders, he barely looked like an NHL'er out there. I'm very excited for him though, he's got a bit of Mike Richards in him.

I'm more pumped about Lindberg. The progress he showed last season was a very pleasant surprise. His ceiling went from 4th line face off and PK specialist to potential top 6 center in the matter of a year. He's just such a smart and heady player. Hockey IQ is off the charts. We'll see him in the NHL and be making an impact sooner than most think.

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08-09-2013, 04:57 AM
  #563
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Its always the same people. Only flaw is you can still see his drivel when other posts are quoting him.

The Rangers need to DZ to take that next step in his game. Its a huge year for him. HUGE YEAR.


Last edited by Jabroni: 08-09-2013 at 06:25 AM. Reason: No ignore list talk.
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08-09-2013, 07:32 AM
  #564
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One thing that I never understood from the love for McD's dev this year vs. DZ's. McD is going to be just fine, like a automatic transmission hitting that second VROOOMMM thing that I don't know how to describe in a mechanical sense. DZ on the other hand is like an inexperienced driver trying to change gears on a manual transmission.

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08-09-2013, 07:48 AM
  #565
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Stepan I have faith in, I don't think the Bergeron comparison is outlandish at all.

Del Zotto, I see him as a tougher yet less skilled version of Liles. Nothing wrong with that, Liles has been a useful player throughout his career. If Del Zotto improved his play on the power play, limited his lower percentage plays, added in with his "jam" I think he would become the more valuable player.

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08-09-2013, 08:21 AM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Stepan I have faith in, I don't think the Bergeron comparison is outlandish at all.

Del Zotto, I see him as a tougher yet less skilled version of Liles. Nothing wrong with that, Liles has been a useful player throughout his career. If Del Zotto improved his play on the power play, limited his lower percentage plays, added in with his "jam" I think he would become the more valuable player.
speaking purely about first few years of a career, mdz has outperformed letang. dz is on a horrible offensive team and still puts up points while letang plays for one of the best offenses in the league.

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08-09-2013, 08:32 AM
  #567
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speaking purely about first few years of a career, mdz has outperformed letang. dz is on a horrible offensive team and still puts up points while letang plays for one of the best offenses in the league.
ehhhh, by that logic though, soon everyone can make 3rd year player > superstar statements.

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08-09-2013, 08:39 AM
  #568
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
with Hagelin possibly out to start the season, we just might see Kreider with Stepan and Nash early on.
regardless of injuries I think that would have been the top line out of the gate.

in trying to bring out the most in a player offensively, you need to put that player with offensive players.

Kreider is not going to show anyone anything playing with offensive slugs like Boyle and Dorsett

Kreider is a finisher and needs to be with players that can get him the puck. He's not a distributor and asking him to show offensive ability from a 3rd/4th line role is asking to see a player struggle with his responsibilities.

It's not a matter of Kreider being the best option for that spot, it's about drawing out of Kreider what the package suggests he is capable of delivering.

I was hoping that that would have happened playing with Richards last year but Brad was to busy chasing that NY tail that his legs were shot and he was a shell of a player.

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08-09-2013, 08:39 AM
  #569
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I mean some of the criticism of Del Zotto is absurd. And there is no doubt he is a very good young player. The Rangers shouldnt be dumping him for a draft pick.

But that shouldn't make him immune from criticism either. The two biggest issues with MDZ are 1. the lack of any type of shooting threat. His accuracy, velocity, and shot selection/timing leave a lot to be desired. It's hard to be a top flight offensive D that can truly run a PP if your shot is not a threat, at all.

Number 2 is, and this may be unfair to some, the signs of issues upstairs. I'm not talking about positioning or even knowing when to jump up. That's fixable. I'm talking about the wild roller coasters of up and down play he exhibits on a season to season, game to game, shift to shift basis. That raises red flags about mental toughness and resiliency. No not McIlrath in your face toughness. The ability to mentally handle setbacks and roadblocks yet persevere and use them to become better. What happens when he hits another one? How will he improve how he handles them? Not an easy thing to do.

And from an HF perspective there is no more "overbearing coach" to scapegoat on this. Not saying MDZ did, but see a lot of comments on here about how AV will take the weight of his shoulders. I hope so. But I'm not sure how good of a sign that really is.

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08-09-2013, 08:44 AM
  #570
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DZ is usually okay in his own end but he isn't great. Sucked in the playoffs. He's a 40 point scorer once and a high 30 point scorer his rookie year. Last year would have pro-rated to about high 30's. Where he needs to get is 50+--right now he's looking an awful lot like Matt Carle--he needs to stop that. DZ improves his stats that much and I think the Rangers pwp should improve too. This will also be his contract year--he should have that much extra incentive. Shouldn't get a big raise if he doesn't really improve his offensive numbers. Rangers want him to be their pwp guy--won't need to talk about trading for one all the time if he can start playing like one.

Comment on Kreider--he tends to get off to slow starts. He did it in college and in his rookie pro season. Tortorella didn't seem to have the patience for that. It would help Chris if he got out of the blocks a little faster this time. Hopefully his game will begin to diversify--maybe work him into occasional pk'ing.

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08-09-2013, 08:44 AM
  #571
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Originally Posted by JCrusty View Post
ehhhh, by that logic though, soon everyone can make 3rd year player > superstar statements.
im not saying hes better than letang. im just trying to say that he isnt terrible and actually dies have potential to become a star. people here act like hes stu bickel

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08-09-2013, 08:47 AM
  #572
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ehhhh, by that logic though, soon everyone can make 3rd year player > superstar statements.
if you want to take it in that extreme then yeah, you have a point.

If you want to apply some real world understanding and logic to the discussion then you take the statement and say, while he may NOT develope into a Letang type of player, he is trending better than most make it out to be and a slight improvement here or there and we to can have ourselves a 50-55 point per year defenceman that adds some bite to his game.

everything is not black and white.

the statement pretty muchs kills the Del Zaster moniker that some here have applied to the player.

Gilroy is a disaster. Hamrlik here was a disaster. Stu in the PO's was a disaster.

MDZ has been anything BUT a disaster

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08-09-2013, 08:49 AM
  #573
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Agree with you and I am happy with who he is and what he has brought to the table thus far.

It's no slight to Stepan in saying that he won't be close to Bergeron who made the Bruins out of the gate at age 18 and had over 70 points his 2nd and 3rd seasons before the concussion bugaboo hit him hard. He was on the fast track to superstardom only to have his career derrailed for a few seasons.

Stepan can be like him as a player but never nearly as good as him.
You are selling Derek short and Bergeron is not the best two way center in the league Datsyuk is.

Step will not likely be as good as PB on draws ever. However, he is extremely competitive, a natural leader and he has great vision on the ice and is a great distributor of the puck (better than Bergeron if I may be so bold as to suggest). Time will tell how good he becomes, but to create a ceiling for him at 23 is not smart.

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08-09-2013, 08:55 AM
  #574
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im not saying hes better than letang. im just trying to say that he isnt terrible and actually dies have potential to become a star. people here act like hes stu bickel
I don't understand why people need to address the extreme fringes to make a point. In fact, your Stu Bickel reference is beyond the fringe opinion and more like fantasy.

Anyway, I think Del Zotto is a solid 2nd pairing defenseman with unique offensive tools that could lead to a consistent PP QB one day. Hes not there yet, thats for sure. In fact, MDZ and Brad Richards are most to blame for the PP's inadequacies.

I have some mild concerns about Del Zotto's skating, but those are nothing compared to my concerns about his mental toughness and maturity. His game always has the potential to go off a cliff after a couple of tough shifts. And thats what scares me most about him.

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08-09-2013, 08:56 AM
  #575
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when staal went down with the eye injury, del z was our best d-man defensively imo for a stretch of 4-8 games. he just needs to bring that consistency night in, night out. hopefully he takes the next step this year. eliminate the dreadful games where he turns over the puck all the time, and he will be a great d-man.

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