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Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread III: "Hemsky Off The Market" - MacT Presser

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Old
08-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #26
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Keep Hemsky at this point. Having a Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky type of line as a third line will be fine for us, Jones-Gordon-Hemsky (or I'm still hoping, Cleary-Gordon-Hemsky) would definitely suffice, and if Hemsky plays well on the 2nd unit PP, then he might be interesting trade bait around deadline day.

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08-09-2013, 09:01 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Keep Hemsky at this point. Having a Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky type of line as a third line will be fine for us, Jones-Gordon-Hemsky (or I'm still hoping, Cleary-Gordon-Hemsky) would definitely suffice, and if Hemsky plays well on the 2nd unit PP, then he might be interesting trade bait around deadline day.
It's not even August 10th, he can still be traded, there's plenty of time before camps open.

Trading Hemsky is still the most logical choice going forward.

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08-09-2013, 09:48 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
It's not even August 10th, he can still be traded, there's plenty of time before camps open.

Trading Hemsky is still the most logical choice going forward.
It's too bad we can't ever have a deep top nine for once.

It's more logical to trade Nick Schultz, have Hemsky contribute on the 2nd PP unit and be able to have a functioning two-way third line with a UFA signed from the Schultz money.

Hemsky's value is clearly terrible at this point, but that could easily turn around by February.

I had big aspirations for re-tooling the team where Hemsky would have to go because of cap problems back in July, but now that MacT has made his moves, I'm kind of moving towards keeping the guy.

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08-09-2013, 11:19 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
I don't think Washington does that, maybe Joel Ward though.
That's a done deal for me.

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08-09-2013, 01:19 PM
  #30
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That's a done deal for me.
A bag of pucks is a done deal for you!

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08-09-2013, 01:24 PM
  #31
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It's not even August 10th, he can still be traded, there's plenty of time before camps open.

Trading Hemsky is still the most logical choice going forward.
It really isn't.

Advantage to trading Hemsky - getting cap space.

Advantages to keeping Hemsky -
a) skilled depth on third line - we need someone capable offensively on the third line.
b) If one of the top six wingers does down due to injury - who's playing on the PP or the top six wingers? Ryan Jones? Jesse Jonessu?
c) challenge the top six wingers for their time. If Eberle, Yakupov, Perron goes into a slump then we have someone to take over and offer a different look.

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08-09-2013, 01:30 PM
  #32
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It really isn't.

Advantage to trading Hemsky - getting cap space.

Advantages to keeping Hemsky -
a) skilled depth on third line - we need someone capable offensively on the third line.
b) If one of the top six wingers does down due to injury - who's playing on the PP or the top six wingers? Ryan Jones? Jesse Jonessu?
c) challenge the top six wingers for their time. If Eberle, Yakupov, Perron goes into a slump then we have someone to take over and offer a different look.
I agree, no point to just dumping Hemsky for cap space, too many people are still in rebuild and tank mode. Keep hemmer unless you can replace him with something better. At this point we can't...

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08-09-2013, 01:39 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
It really isn't.

Advantage to trading Hemsky - getting cap space.

Advantages to keeping Hemsky -
a) skilled depth on third line - we need someone capable offensively on the third line.
b) If one of the top six wingers does down due to injury - who's playing on the PP or the top six wingers? Ryan Jones? Jesse Jonessu?
c) challenge the top six wingers for their time. If Eberle, Yakupov, Perron goes into a slump then we have someone to take over and offer a different look.
Sure, I understand the idea of the depth of skill, but I would rather players who play their roles well. Hemsky isn't a 3rd line type player nor should be be.

If their's an injury who plays on the PP? Maybe add another defenseman, go with 3f-2d if there are injuries, because right now it's looking alot like 4f-1d for the 1st unit and probably 3f-2d for the 2nd

Challenge to what end? Because they might slack? Have you seen the guys in the top-6, especially on the wings? Their level of compete, work ethics and motors are something Hemsky couldn't fathom.

I like Ales Hemsky, but I'm not convinced him being a second fiddle, 3rd line player will be the best for the team on the whole. When does he lose motivation when he can't get any of the "cherry" icetime?

The advantage to trading Hemsky include closing a chapter, getting a player back who fits a role better and avoiding a possible headache

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08-09-2013, 03:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by TowMater14 View Post
A bag of pucks is a done deal for you!
5 million in cap+bag of pucks>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ales Hemsky. With 5 million in cap space, we would've had far more cap flexibility in the offseason and could've picked up Eric Nystrom, Maxim LaPierre, and Benoit Pouliot or something. That makes us a much better team today and going forward. It wouldn't matter anyway, since the Capitals wouldn't do Ward for Hemsky unless we retained salary.

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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
It really isn't.

Advantage to trading Hemsky - getting cap space.

Advantages to keeping Hemsky -
a) skilled depth on third line - we need someone capable offensively on the third line.
b) If one of the top six wingers does down due to injury - who's playing on the PP or the top six wingers? Ryan Jones? Jesse Jonessu?
c) challenge the top six wingers for their time. If Eberle, Yakupov, Perron goes into a slump then we have someone to take over and offer a different look.
Or we could get a younger, cheaper option like Peter Mueller, who has produced at the same rate as Hemsky the past few seasons and is equally injury prone. It would accomplish the exact same thing, we'd get 4 million or so cap space to work with at the trade deadline, and we'd get a player that might actually revitalize his career unlike Hemsky, who peaked years ago. Also, speaking of injury history, Hemsky is far more injury prone than any other player on the team. The question we'll be asking isn't "who will Hemsky fill in for in the top 6?" it's "when will Hemsky get injured and who do we call up?"

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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Challenge to what end? Because they might slack? Have you seen the guys in the top-6, especially on the wings? Their level of compete, work ethics and motors are something Hemsky couldn't fathom.
This.


Last edited by Trafalgar Law: 08-09-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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08-09-2013, 04:12 PM
  #35
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Antropov to the KHL.

We could've used him. Nuge and Gagner aren't both going to stay healthy for the whole season and I don't want Gordon, Lander or Arcobello in our top six.

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08-09-2013, 04:29 PM
  #36
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Antropov to the KHL.

We could've used him. Nuge and Gagner aren't both going to stay healthy for the whole season and I don't want Gordon, Lander or Arcobello in our top six.
I have this sick feeling that we're going to be seeing Will Acton and Andrew Miller in our lineup at some point.

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08-09-2013, 04:35 PM
  #37
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Hemsky for Brouwer

or

Hemsky for Okposo!

Do it!

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08-09-2013, 04:39 PM
  #38
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Hemsky for Brouwer

or

Hemsky for Okposo!

Do it!
Neither team comes close to doing it...... Like its that easy.

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08-09-2013, 04:57 PM
  #39
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Neither team comes close to doing it...... Like its that easy.
Sometimes you have to wonder how so many Oiler fans developed this "inferiority complex" towards any player outside their team.

The Isles wouldn't do Hemsky for Okposo? Are you serious? How do you justify this? Did you mistake Okposo for Evander Kane ?

- Are we talking about the same Okposo who's 25 years old? (4 years younger than Hemmer?)
- Are we talking about the same Okposo who had 4 goals last season?
- Are we talking about the same Okposo who was on a 7 goal pace last season? (Over 82 games)
- Are you going to say that Okoposo is a "powerforward" while Hemsky's a "finesse player"? The same Okposo who had 46 PIMs to Ales Hemsky's 52 PIM's in their last full seasons?
- Are you talking about the same Okposo who has had a career 0.58 PPG to Ales Hemsky's 0.76 PPG?
- Are you sure Garth Snow would really balk that BADLY over an Okposo for Hemsky proposal? Really?!?

What's wrong with Oiler fans? Why do we always have to downplay player values if they're not in the Fab 5? Why? Makes no sense.

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08-09-2013, 05:07 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Comic Book Guy View Post
Sometimes you have to wonder how so many Oiler fans developed this "inferiority complex" towards any player outside their team.

The Isles wouldn't do Hemsky for Okposo? Are you serious? How do you justify this? Did you mistake Okposo for Evander Kane ?

- Are we talking about the same Okposo who's 25 years old? (4 years younger than Hemmer?)
- Are we talking about the same Okposo who had 4 goals last season?
- Are we talking about the same Okposo who was on a 7 goal pace last season? (Over 82 games)
- Are you going to say that Okoposo is a "powerforward" while Hemsky's a "finesse player"? The same Okposo who had 46 PIMs to Ales Hemsky's 52 PIM's in their last full seasons?
- Are you talking about the same Okposo who has had a career 0.58 PPG to Ales Hemsky's 0.76 PPG?
- Are you sure Garth Snow would really balk that BADLY over an Okposo for Hemsky proposal? Really?!?

What's wrong with Oiler fans? Why do we always have to downplay player values if they're not in the Fab 5? Why? Makes no sense.
There is zero argument here - the Islanders wouldn't even consider moving Okposo for Hemsky. Hemsky has zero trade value. Our GM publicly announced he'd be best off moving on and he is still here - that says something.

If you want some proof, go make a thread in the Islanders' forum posting this trade proposal. Okposo is 25 years old, not injury prone, and had a solid season when you consider the fact that he only had 5 points in his first 20 games (which makes sense when you consider he didn't play during the lockout). He finished the season which 19 points in his last 28 games which pro-rates to 56 points which is a respectable total.

The Islanders would openly laugh if we called offering Hemsky for Okposo. Hemsky hasn't topped 42 points for 5 years and he's a huge injury risk - he has zero trade value unless we're trading for a bad contract. This has nothing to do with an inferiority complex, it's reality. Brouwer for Hemsky is even more laughable.

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Old
08-09-2013, 05:12 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Comic Book Guy View Post
Sometimes you have to wonder how so many Oiler fans developed this "inferiority complex" towards any player outside their team.

The Isles wouldn't do Hemsky for Okposo? Are you serious? How do you justify this? Did you mistake Okposo for Evander Kane ?

- Are we talking about the same Okposo who's 25 years old? (4 years younger than Hemmer?)
- Are we talking about the same Okposo who had 4 goals last season?
- Are we talking about the same Okposo who was on a 7 goal pace last season? (Over 82 games)
- Are you going to say that Okoposo is a "powerforward" while Hemsky's a "finesse player"? The same Okposo who had 46 PIMs to Ales Hemsky's 52 PIM's in their last full seasons?
- Are you talking about the same Okposo who has had a career 0.58 PPG to Ales Hemsky's 0.76 PPG?
- Are you sure Garth Snow would really balk that BADLY over an Okposo for Hemsky proposal? Really?!?

What's wrong with Oiler fans? Why do we always have to downplay player values if they're not in the Fab 5? Why? Makes no sense.
Okposo is signed to a much cheaper contract long term, is indeed younger, has had about the same ppg the last two years and plays a bigger game. Why on earth would Snow consider this trade especially since hemmer has been more injury prone and seemingly declining. His contract is up sooner and islanders arnt looking to spend money. I'm sorry if you view my reason as being an 'inferiority complex', we all have opinions don't we. I just see it a different way I suppose. Lots of things to take into account but ultimately I don't see how we would ever be able to make that trade unless we add.

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08-09-2013, 05:13 PM
  #42
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hahahaha CP

"I think the Nuge and Yakipov probably would have been drafted around where Monahan was if they were in that draft class."

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08-09-2013, 05:17 PM
  #43
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Here is the quote from MacTavish as to Hemsky and Horc.

Quote:
In an interview with Team 1260 Radio in Edmonton on Thursday, the new general manager suggested that captain Shawn Horcoff and winger Ales Hemsky could be done with the club.

"I think both those players are at a similar crossroads," MacTavish told the radio station.

"Sometimes change is good for both the organization and the player, but at the same time they're valuable players and we're not in a position where we're able to move them without getting something substantial in return...I have a lot of allegiance and a lot of loyalty to 'Horc' and to Ales. I have a lot of respect for both those players. But from both those perspectives, I think the ideal scenario would be to move them on and wish them the best in their next destination."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=424887
That is right from the horses mouth. So no dumping for a bag of pucks, or crap draft picks, etc. No valuable asset coming back Hemsky will still be here.

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08-09-2013, 05:26 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
Here is the quote from MacTavish as to Hemsky and Horc.



That is right from the horses mouth. So no dumping for a bag of pucks, or crap draft picks, etc. No valuable asset coming back Hemsky will still be here.
Yup, Philip Larsen and a 2016 7th are going to be huge for our organization. Bob Stauffer also said that Hemsky would return less than Horcoff.

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08-09-2013, 05:29 PM
  #45
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Sure, I understand the idea of the depth of skill, but I would rather players who play their roles well. Hemsky isn't a 3rd line type player nor should be be.

If their's an injury who plays on the PP? Maybe add another defenseman, go with 3f-2d if there are injuries, because right now it's looking alot like 4f-1d for the 1st unit and probably 3f-2d for the 2nd

Challenge to what end? Because they might slack? Have you seen the guys in the top-6, especially on the wings? Their level of compete, work ethics and motors are something Hemsky couldn't fathom.

I like Ales Hemsky, but I'm not convinced him being a second fiddle, 3rd line player will be the best for the team on the whole. When does he lose motivation when he can't get any of the "cherry" icetime?

The advantage to trading Hemsky include closing a chapter, getting a player back who fits a role better and avoiding a possible headache
The idea of getting a player who fits the role better is okay, but simply put: If you get a guy worse than Hemsky in that spot, then your team gets worse. A good coach finds a way to give Hemsky icetime, ideally he's getting a similar amount as David Perron, because they are close in skills and talent.

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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
5 million in cap+bag of pucks>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ales Hemsky. With 5 million in cap space, we would've had far more cap flexibility in the offseason and could've picked up Eric Nystrom, Maxim LaPierre, and Benoit Pouliot or something. That makes us a much better team today and going forward. It wouldn't matter anyway, since the Capitals wouldn't do Ward for Hemsky unless we retained salary.



Or we could get a younger, cheaper option like Peter Mueller, who has produced at the same rate as Hemsky the past few seasons and is equally injury prone. It would accomplish the exact same thing, we'd get 4 million or so cap space to work with at the trade deadline, and we'd get a player that might actually revitalize his career unlike Hemsky, who peaked years ago. Also, speaking of injury history, Hemsky is far more injury prone than any other player on the team. The question we'll be asking isn't "who will Hemsky fill in for in the top 6?" it's "when will Hemsky get injured and who do we call up?"


This.
Hemsky >>> Nystrom, Ward, Lapierre, Pouliot. Seriously, all 4 of those guys are basically plugs. Nystrom? Have you seen him play? He's awful, and Nashville overpaid huge to get him.

Mueller is way more injury prone than Hemsky. Hemsky's injuries lately stemmed from a shoulder problem that has been fixed and shouldn't be a problem ever again, as well as a foot injury from a freak shot from Jeff Petry. Mueller is a concussion case who hasn't been able to fully rebound since his days in Colorado. Hemsky > Mueller


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
Here is the quote from MacTavish as to Hemsky and Horc.



That is right from the horses mouth. So no dumping for a bag of pucks, or crap draft picks, etc. No valuable asset coming back Hemsky will still be here.
Horcoff's valuable asset in return was Larsen and a 7th, so I'm worried that MacT will try for a similar dump, which only makes sense if there is a good plan to add depth that tips the scale.

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08-09-2013, 06:14 PM
  #46
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hahahaha CP

"I think the Nuge and Yakipov probably would have been drafted around where Monahan was if they were in that draft class."
"I would take Nichushkin over Yakupov"

All kinds of gold on there.

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08-09-2013, 06:18 PM
  #47
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Hard to imagine a team giving up assets for a 5mil Hemsky when Brunner is still a UFA

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08-09-2013, 06:22 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Hemsky >>> Nystrom, Ward, Lapierre, Pouliot. Seriously, all 4 of those guys are basically plugs. Nystrom? Have you seen him play? He's awful, and Nashville overpaid huge to get him.

Mueller is way more injury prone than Hemsky. Hemsky's injuries lately stemmed from a shoulder problem that has been fixed and shouldn't be a problem ever again, as well as a foot injury from a freak shot from Jeff Petry. Mueller is a concussion case who hasn't been able to fully rebound since his days in Colorado. Hemsky > Mueller
Odd, this Joel Ward plug I recall had the same number of points as Hemsky last year in only one game more, with less ice time, playing on the penalty kill instead of the power play. If anything, between these two, Ales Hemsky is the plug. There is literally no objective argument to be made that says Ales Hemsky was a bigger contributor to his team last year than Joel Ward.

Ales Hemsky fills a redundant role on the team: small, skilled winger. The team needs toughness and penalty killing, which guys like Nystrom bring in bunches. Ales Hemsky in a 1v1 hockey game might be better than Nystrom, but Nystrom+LaPierre+Mueller or whatever is a better fit for our bottom 6 than Hemsky+Lander+Smyth. I'd much rather we overpay guys who know their role like Nystrom, Gordon, Prust, and Malhotra than overpay players with a sense of entitlement like Hemsky and over the hill players like Smyth.

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08-09-2013, 06:39 PM
  #49
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Odd, this Joel Ward plug I recall had the same number of points as Hemsky last year in only one game more, with less ice time, playing on the penalty kill instead of the power play. If anything, between these two, Ales Hemsky is the plug. There is literally no objective argument to be made that says Ales Hemsky was a bigger contributor to his team last year than Joel Ward.

Ales Hemsky fills a redundant role on the team: small, skilled winger. The team needs toughness and penalty killing, which guys like Nystrom bring in bunches. Ales Hemsky in a 1v1 hockey game might be better than Nystrom, but Nystrom+LaPierre+Mueller or whatever is a better fit for our bottom 6 than Hemsky+Lander+Smyth. I'd much rather we overpay guys who know their role like Nystrom, Gordon, Prust, and Malhotra than overpay players with a sense of entitlement like Hemsky and over the hill players like Smyth.
Had a good lockout year, that's great. Joel Ward also put up 18 points in 73 games last year, so he definitely is the inconsistent type. Ward also wasn't playing with a broken foot. Ward's career year is Hemsky's off year.

I wouldn't say Hemsky has any sense of entitlement whatsoever, that seems like a biased statement, and there is still a way to have Hemsky and still fit role players like you mentioned.
Smyth 2.25M
Grebeshkov 1.5M
N. Schultz 3.5M

7.25M right there that really shouldn't be there. That 7.25M could have been used towards getting a 3rd line LW and adding a depth C.

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08-09-2013, 06:40 PM
  #50
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To Edmonton:
Bertuzzi (2m modified NTC)
Tootoo (1.9m)

To Detroit:
N Schultz (3.5m)

I think this makes sense for both teams. Edmonton still has a weak bottom 6 and extra D, while Detroit has extra forwards (15 listed on capgeek, one RFA and could resign Cleary or Brunner) and a lackluster D core.

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