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Current Golie Stats - Garon#1 in the NHL, Cloutier is #37 (4th from the bottom)

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Old
11-03-2006, 08:55 PM
  #26
Osprey
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Originally Posted by took420s View Post
^ Or maybe if he started more games he would have played well in them too and instead of having great stats on 6 games he would have great stats on 10+ games.

You can't assume anything, hopefully he will get a chance to play a few in a row so we can really see what he is going to do...instead of making it up to fit our opinions
I'm not making anything up. Garon is only #1 in both stats among goalies who have played at least 5 games. There are goalies with better stats than Garon so far:

Ilya Bryzgalov: 3gms, 1.22 GAA, .952 SV%
Johan Hedberg: 3gms, 1.24 GAA, .943 SV%
Mike Smith: 2gms, 1.00 GAA, .964 SV%

Why do you think that stats like this are usually asterisked with "who have played in at least X games"? It's because stats are more and more inaccurate as the sample size gets smaller. Good stats (like Garon's) tend to get worse as sample size increases and bad stats (like Cloutier's) tend to get better. That's why I said "chances are very high." It's not certain and it's possible that Garon will maintain the numbers, as you said, but, statistically, the odds are against it. I'm a huge Garon supporter, but some things necessitate a grain of salt.


Last edited by Osprey: 11-03-2006 at 09:10 PM.
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11-03-2006, 09:12 PM
  #27
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BTW, I should re-state that I'm a huge Garon supporter and want to see him play, too, but I know when things need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Agreed, I guess it seemed as though you were trying to downplay his great stats through those 6 games. As the sample size increases it is likely that his numbers will dip, but how far they dip is the real question. I tend to believe in Garon (as do you it seems) and think that given more starts he will only increase his stock with Crawford and maybe, just maybe, continue to keep his stats in the top 5.

Hopefully Garon gets the chance to show everyone his stats are for real...through 6 games or 20.

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11-03-2006, 09:26 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by took420s View Post
Agreed, I guess it seemed as though you were trying to downplay his great stats through those 6 games. As the sample size increases it is likely that his numbers will dip, but how far they dip is the real question. I tend to believe in Garon (as do you it seems) and think that given more starts he will only increase his stock with Crawford and maybe, just maybe, continue to keep his stats in the top 5.

Hopefully Garon gets the chance to show everyone his stats are for real...through 6 games or 20.
I'm glad that you understood me. I was afraid that you trying to argue with me. As I said, even if he had played a lot more games, I think that he would've dropped to something like 7th or 8th (equal to a .920 SV%), which is still quite fantastic and nothing to be disappointed about. It's just the "#1 in the NHL" thing that shouldn't be taken too far, IMO.

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11-03-2006, 09:39 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
I'm glad that you understood me. I was afraid that you trying to argue with me. As I said, even if he had played a lot more games, I think that he would've dropped to something like 7th or 8th (equal to a .920 SV%), which is still quite fantastic and nothing to be disappointed about. It's just the "#1 in the NHL" thing that shouldn't be taken too far, IMO.
If he can stay at .920 then we have our #1. I have a feeling that Crawford will be going in Garon's direction (regardless of what he said in that LA Times article) for a few games in a row soon. Unfortunatly, the fans at Staples have completely turned on Cloutier and it is really going to get ugly if something does not change (either more Garon starts or better play by Clouts) soon.

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11-04-2006, 12:21 PM
  #30
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take it for what it's worth, Cloutier is a notoriously slow starter but usually gets better and better as the season progresses to the point where he's somewhat decent and he'll average over .900 sv percent, even in years where the Canucks played run and gun.. It's probably worse for him now more than ever since he missed almost a whole year last season.

However, that being said, I have always disliked Cloutier in that he doesn't seem to have the work ethic to fight through his mental funk. As far as I'm concerned, a goalie that has a bad game, works on it extra hard in practice to build his confidence. I had heard that he doesn't do this and as a result, it takes him longer to build his confidence. In other words, he's far too fragile, especially when he gets beaten by a bad goal in a game... expect more bad goals to follow. That was why the Canuck fans prefered to play Alex Auld in net because he wasn't fazed by the odd bad goal and can rebound quite well from one.

I don't know if the Kings have a goalie coach, but Cloutier needs one to be with him badly throughout the season.

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11-04-2006, 12:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by cc View Post

I don't know if the Kings have a goalie coach, but Cloutier needs one to be with him badly throughout the season.
Our goalie coach is Billy Ranford, and our Assistant Gm is Ron Hextall. I think we're covered there.

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11-04-2006, 12:40 PM
  #32
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Garon or Cloutier tonite?

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11-04-2006, 01:12 PM
  #33
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Garon or Cloutier tonite?
Smart money's on Garon.

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Old
11-04-2006, 01:59 PM
  #34
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Everyone thinks Garon is going to start, so that means...
Cloutier is going to start.

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11-04-2006, 02:04 PM
  #35
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I think Garon has earned the right to start, he has just clearly been the better goaltender and is giving the Kings a better chance to win.

My only question is, how come the stats suddenly matter when it comes to Garon/Cloutier? Last year when Garon sucked all you guys said you can't judge a goalie based on stats, and now your doing it with the Garon/Cloutier debate.

Its pretty funny reading this.


Last edited by Herby: 11-04-2006 at 03:56 PM.
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11-04-2006, 03:45 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I think Garon has earned the right to start, he has just clearly been the better goaltender and is giving the Kings a better chance to win.

My only question is, how come the stats suddenly matter when it comes to Garon? Last year when Garon sucked all you guys said you can't judge a goalie based on stats, and now your doing it with the Garon/Cloutier debate.

Its pretty funny reading this
Shh.... Do not ruin their fun

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Old
11-04-2006, 05:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I think Garon has earned the right to start, he has just clearly been the better goaltender and is giving the Kings a better chance to win.

My only question is, how come the stats suddenly matter when it comes to Garon/Cloutier? Last year when Garon sucked all you guys said you can't judge a goalie based on stats, and now your doing it with the Garon/Cloutier debate.

Its pretty funny reading this.
I'm a Garon supporter, and I think the dependency of stats are retarded. The people who know what they're talking about, in my opinion, aren't using stats to back-up their arguments.

It's just too bad there are so many people who don't know better, and prefer to use statistics rather than actual observations and objectivity.

For what it's worth, I DO think Cloutier's getting a little better. But, he's doing a worse job controlling rebounds than Garon, he's letting in softer goals than Garon, and his angles are atrocious. I really hope Ranford is drilling some of these fundamentals into Cloutier, because as much as I despise the 2nd round pick (and extension) for him, we're stuck with him and I genuinely WANT him to succeed.

But as a supporter of Garon, I have a problem with those using statistics to say WHY Garon is better than Cloutier, especially those who condemned the use of statistics last season.

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Old
11-04-2006, 10:47 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
According to the yahoo nhl stats as of this morning.

Garon leads the league in Goals Against Avg. category, and in
Save Percentage category

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/stats;_ylt=Allk1H4S.HfjXyhU8XVQ9ld7vLYF

Cloutier is Number 37 in Goals Against Average or Number 4 from the bottom.

The numbers rarely lie.
After 5 goals in 25 minutes or so tonight, his GAA is near 2.5, or about tenth in the league.

The problem with a small sample.

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Old
11-04-2006, 11:05 PM
  #39
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Wow, that didn't take long

(tries to think who to blame next)

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Old
11-04-2006, 11:49 PM
  #40
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(tries to think who to blame next)
Let's just blame Dave Taylor for the current mess.

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Old
11-06-2006, 01:46 AM
  #41
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I recommend blaming Cloutier for the losses, and Crawford for being an idiot.

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11-06-2006, 11:36 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Our goalie coach is Billy Ranford, and our Assistant Gm is Ron Hextall. I think we're covered there.
Yep, they are doing one bang up job so far!

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I recommend blaming Cloutier for the losses, and Crawford for being an idiot.
Concur. Don't like Crawford, never will.

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Old
11-06-2006, 01:15 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Dooney View Post
Yep, they are doing one bang up job so far!



Concur. Don't like Crawford, never will.
It doesn't matter how good they are, when you're working with crap, you're working with crap.

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Old
11-06-2006, 01:19 PM
  #44
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It doesn't matter how good they are, when you're working with crap, you're working with crap.
Oh I agree 100% with you Reaper. I have never been so disgusted with the team and its new coach in a very long time.

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Old
11-06-2006, 01:26 PM
  #45
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It doesn't matter how good they are, when you're working with crap, you're working with crap.
Don't forget they are trying for a top 5 pick

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Old
11-06-2006, 01:33 PM
  #46
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Don't forget they are trying for a top 5 pick
Yep.

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