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The Offseason Thread V: Needs to End Edition

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Old
08-09-2013, 09:10 PM
  #626
Fire Sather
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I still don't understand why it has to go to training camp.

As mostly always, I'll blame the player in this. Stepan has no leverage and he knows hes not getting a better offer.

Whats he trying to prove?

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08-09-2013, 09:11 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
I still don't understand why it has to go to training camp.

As mostly always, I'll blame the player in this. Stepan has no leverage and he knows hes not getting a better offer.

Whats he trying to prove?
No disadvantage to waiting. And he, of course, has leverage. Additionally it's the agent not the player.

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08-09-2013, 09:12 PM
  #628
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It couldn't be any less of a big deal. It'll get done when it's done.

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08-09-2013, 09:12 PM
  #629
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I would beg to differ.
That's fine! You have your opinion and I have my mine. O'Reilly got offer sheeted for 5 mil/yr by Calgary because he is rated as one of the top lockdown centers in the league at age 22. Stepan is very responsible defensively and will probably out produce O'Reilly in the long run but O'Reilly is a much better and more physically gifted defensive center than Stepan is right now.

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08-09-2013, 09:16 PM
  #630
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Not to change the subject, but:

Shawn Mitchell ‏@smitchcd 21h

Puck-Rakers: Former #CBJ F Jody Shelley has retired, returned to Columbus and going back to work for the Jackets: http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...y-returns.html

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08-09-2013, 09:19 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
I still don't understand why it has to go to training camp.

As mostly always, I'll blame the player in this. Stepan has no leverage and he knows hes not getting a better offer.

Whats he trying to prove?
Didn't you also throw a hissy fit when the islanders made the playoffs?

Calm down

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08-09-2013, 09:34 PM
  #632
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I still don't understand why it has to go to training camp.

As mostly always, I'll blame the player in this. Stepan has no leverage and he knows hes not getting a better offer.

Whats he trying to prove?
Relax. Stepan is not going anywhere.

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08-09-2013, 09:40 PM
  #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Didn't you also throw a hissy fit when the islanders made the playoffs?

Calm down
huh? I know I got very angry when they didn't lose for like 2 weeks and just wouldn't go away.. but how is that anyway related to this?

Such a random thing to say.. lol

Drew, I never said I was at all worried about it not getting done. Just saying theres no reason it shouldn't be done now. But these little contract issues are always on the player in my mind. Especially when that player has no leverage.

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08-09-2013, 09:41 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
huh? I know I got very angry when they didn't lose for like 2 weeks and just wouldn't go away.. but how is that anyway related to this?

Such a random thing to say.. lol

Drew, I never said I was at all worried about it not getting done. Just saying theres no reason it shouldn't be done now. But these little contract issues are always on the player in my mind. Especially when that player has no leverage.
Where do you see he has no leverage. He can hold out if he wants.

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08-09-2013, 09:43 PM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Where do you see he has no leverage. He can hold out if he wants.
He can hold out all he wants but unless he gets an offer sheet hes the one not making any money.

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08-09-2013, 09:44 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
He can hold out all he wants but unless he gets an offer sheet hes the one not making any money.
And the Rangers are the ones missing their best center.

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08-09-2013, 09:51 PM
  #637
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Quote:
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And the Rangers are the ones missing their best center.
I'd be willing to bet Stepan would blink first.

Unless he wants to sit out an important season in his development.

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08-09-2013, 09:52 PM
  #638
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Most likely. But either way there's no rush to get it done. I'm sure it'll happen in the next couple of weeks.

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08-09-2013, 09:55 PM
  #639
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I sure hope so. Both sides losing out if they don't deal. I'll be ****ing furious if we lose him to an offer sheet.

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08-09-2013, 10:09 PM
  #640
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Where do you see he has no leverage. He can hold out if he wants.
Stepan is not a dumbell like Dubinsky was!

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08-09-2013, 10:17 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
He can hold out all he wants but unless he gets an offer sheet hes the one not making any money.
He won't hold out and he isn't getting offer sheeted. He'll be in camp, book it!

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08-09-2013, 11:55 PM
  #642
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Panic!

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08-09-2013, 11:59 PM
  #643
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Apparently you guys missed the interview where Gorton said he expects the Stepan deal to be done before camp? CHILL

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08-10-2013, 12:05 AM
  #644
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Apparently you guys missed the interview where Gorton said he expects the Stepan deal to be done before camp? CHILL
Blasphemy.

Stepan's going to get a 6M+ offer sheet by some mysterious team and all our hopes and dreams will crumble. True story.

Panic!

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08-10-2013, 12:30 AM
  #645
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Stepan will get signed, mark my words. I really would't even sweat an offer sheet.

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Old
08-10-2013, 12:31 AM
  #646
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RFA's who aren't signed:

http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year...1&fa_type_id=1

Panic!

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08-10-2013, 05:01 AM
  #647
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Originally Posted by Jim Ramsay View Post
People throw these kind of scenarios around but you really don't see teams making multiple moves like this any more.... its just too farfetched.

I think hagelin doesn't have that 'wow' factor but the thing I love about him as a player as that he can easily slip into a LW position on lines 1-3 and not look too out of place on any of them.... ofcourse not an ideal scoring left-winger I think you're undervaluing him in favor of a guy full of question marks....
I don't disagree at all. I am also not ruleing out that Hagelin could actually turn into a wow type of player, I might not bet the house on it, but he still has a unexplored game with the puck. During the lockout, in the 2nd tier league in Sweden, he used his speed -- with -- the puck to the same extent he does in the NHL with it. There where many good NHLers in that league (Kopitar, Ryan, Berglund, Landeskog, Read and several others), but at times Hagelin was the one who dominated the most.

But no matter what, I don't think you can overstate the downside of having an incomplete team in this league. And without a PPQB, without a PMD 5 on 5, we have been a incomplete team for so long. It hurts us in so many areas. It more or less hurt all the players we have.

Look at Philly. Why are they willing to take a seemingly -- unthinkable -- risk on a +35 contract for Mark Streit? If Streit is hurt, retires or whatever, between him and Pronger, Philly got 11m on the books for nothing. They could not compete under any circumstancese BEFORE THE 2017/18 season when both those players comes of the book (I think many fail to realize what a disaster a career ending injury to Streit would be for Philly. Louie CK talk about the overuse of certain high level words. But the only word that can be used here is disaster. Close shop for 4 years lol?).

Why is Philly willing to take that risk?

Of course because they know that without a PPQB and a PMD 5 on 5, their PP goes down the drain. The stats of everyone from Giroux to Voracek to Simmonds goes down the drain. They know that the diffrence between Schenn or Coutier coming into the league and doing well, putting pts on the boards, building confidence, developing into good offensive players, and coming in and struggling, being questioned, loosing confidence -- quite possibly could be just having puck moving ability from the blueline. Without that you won't score many goals in this league. Without scoring many goals, its still possible to get by, but its not easy and with it comes a ton of down side.

We have for almost 30 years said, lol Philly gotta fix their goaltending problem. Well, we need to freakin get a PPQB/PMD. We are closing in on Philly on the denial-scale here. Enough is enough. Leetch started loosing it over 10 years ago. Who have we had after him, yeah, Tom Poti.

If the cost to get a kid who got all the potential in the world to become a good PPQB/PMD -- with a right shot -- is a flexible LW you just gotta do it.

This is the one move we still have left to make. After making the moves I described earlier (moving 1 LD and adding a PPQB/PMD with a right shot), we are structurly set, with McI joing the club, for almost a decade. We can retool. Upgrade. Adjust to the cap. But we would have a complete team, where any move is made to get better, not to get something we don't have.

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Old
08-10-2013, 05:07 AM
  #648
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Stepan is not a dumbell like Dubinsky was!
One thing that scares me/make me wonder a little though is the fact that many GM's used to hard ball the bridge contract. There where exceptions, but not many. Now it seems like it is 50/50.

Dubi could say "why should I sign a bridge contract when X and Y did not?".

Stepan could say "why should I sign a bridge contract when A- did not?"

Slats is closing in on Lou L stance on bonuses on ELC's here. Its not quite as bad, but holding ground must definitely be harder...

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Old
08-10-2013, 07:25 AM
  #649
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The Rangers and Blues like the 2 year contract for players coming out of their ELC without arbitration rights. Staal was lone exception. Pietroangelo will be the Blues exception. MTL has become one of those teams too with the Subban and Eller contracts. The Rangers would probably prefer to sign Stepan long term but they don't have the space and aren't willing to move a player to make space. The indications were that Stepan and McD would get long term contracts. The high side is Couture at $2.875M for someone like Stepan.

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Old
08-10-2013, 07:48 AM
  #650
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But MDZ can hardly be labeled as a Michael Nylander on the blueline.

He just makes normal plays for a PMD.

He is more like Stepan on defense and in relation play with just as small marginals as Stepan. MDZ doesn't play with small marginals in relation to the avg PMD. It's probably more like the opposite.

You describe him trying to make a long pass and pick a corner when shooting. Is that really that bad lol? Compareable to a forward tryin to stickhandle through an entire team and drop passing the puck all over the place???
I am just trying to explain what I see and why it leads me to question his situational play making (reading the play)

Yes, in my opinion making a pass up the middle of the ice with almost no chance of it being completed when the last thing the Rangers need is a turnover and possibly a goal against is a bad idea.

If the Rangers are playing from behind, if his teammates are not tired and looking to change, if there is a decent chance the pass connects, then sure, I do not have any problem with him trying it in that or in a similar situation. However the safer play is to either skate the puck up ice himself, chip it out, or reverse the puck around the net if there is someone there, which there should be.

Same for the picking the right top corner when shooting from the left hand side of the ice. It's okay to take that shot sometimes, usually when you know there is a teammate or two back near or even outside of the neutral zone so if it misses those players are there to help prevent a odd man rush the other way. If he sees his teammates going to the net, he should just get the puck on goal low and hope for a rebound. Odds of something good happening from a rebound are higher than him making the perfect corner shot.

There seems to have been a disconnect between what Del Zotto has been trying to do and what his teammates expect him to do. Perhaps some of that can be based on the coaching as well but in any case it's something that is not being imagined by novice ignorant fans just to be mean to Del Zotto.

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