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Bo Horvat Discussion and Debate

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Old
08-10-2013, 07:06 PM
  #26
LickTheEnvelope
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Horvat is a better defensive player and a better center.

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08-10-2013, 07:13 PM
  #27
Rey
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Let's not be homers.

Max Domi is superior offensively compared to Horvat, in terms of junior hockey but with Horvat's defensive game, and size, anyone would see Horvat as a player who may translate better in the NHL.

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08-10-2013, 07:16 PM
  #28
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If Horvat was taken before 9, I question if the Canucks even trade for the 9th pick and to take who would have been around then.

That does mean someone else would be available though

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08-10-2013, 07:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
If Horvat was taken before 9, I question if the Canucks even trade for the 9th pick and to take who would have been around then.

That does mean someone else would be available though
Would be tempting, assuming Edmonton and Buffalo really wanted their defense mans. Monahan or Lindholm may have been available. Could you really pass up on either?

but I'm sure the Canucks fan had Nichushkin in their mind in the whole draft because some article mentioned Gillis being desperate to trade for a top pick to acquire Nichushkin. Pretty sure most fans didn't know Horvat's name before the draft but already had looked at Nichushkin's potential.

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08-10-2013, 07:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Horvat is a better defensive player and a better center.
And Domi is a better offensive producer, at least so far. I;m happy we have Horvat, but Domi or Nichushkin will be big time stars in the league IMO.

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08-10-2013, 07:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Would be tempting, assuming Edmonton and Buffalo really wanted their defense mans. Monahan or Lindholm may have been available. Could you really pass up on either?

but I'm sure the Canucks fan had Nichushkin in their mind in the whole draft because some article mentioned Gillis being desperate to trade for a top pick to acquire Nichushkin. Pretty sure most fans didn't know Horvat's name before the draft but already had looked at Nichushkin's potential.
My hypothetical was based on an assumption that they had an offer for a later first and something else, or anther 1st next year (I should have said), If the NJ deal was the only one on the table then they still take it.

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08-10-2013, 07:27 PM
  #32
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And Domi is a better offensive producer, at least so far. I;m happy we have Horvat, but Domi or Nichushkin will be big time stars in the league IMO.
How many big time stars do you think will come out of the last draft?

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08-10-2013, 07:28 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
How many big time stars do you think will come out of the last draft?
You mean this past 2013 draft? I think it's the best we've seen since 2003.

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08-10-2013, 07:40 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
You mean this past 2013 draft? I think it's the best we've seen since 2003.
So depending on you definition of big time star, something like 10 - 15 players from the first round will be big time stars?

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08-10-2013, 07:52 PM
  #35
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I like Domi alot but like Horvat a little bit more and think he will have a slightly better career, although Domi might be the better fantasy guy.

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08-10-2013, 08:00 PM
  #36
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Nope. Horvat is much safer and has just as much overall potential, albeit less offensive potential.

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08-10-2013, 08:27 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Cody Hodgson View Post
Like the title of the thread says, should they have?

Did the Canucks pick Horvat because he was safe? I think we need more pure offensive talent than big 2 way forwards. Plus Gaunce seems like he's on his way to becoming a solid NHLer to play behind sedin and Kesler the next 3-4 years. Horvat seemed a little redundant and less proven IMO. Domi has had the spotlight on him his entire hockey career so far so I feel like he would be able to handle the spotlight and pressure of a city like vancouver. He's got this real edge and competitiveness to his game.
I have this feeling like horvat just got on a hot streak and it skewed his draft position too much.

I feel like his size was the least of the concern and unlike Schroeder he would be able to play and excel on the wing, something Schroeder has looked out of place at. People will bring up the size issue and compare him to Schroeder but they are different players.

Max Domi is already bigger, stronger and well trained physically. Probably around 195 lbs of pure muscle. Where as Jordan Schroeder tops out at around 180 lbs. Domi seems to also have the explosive speed Schroeder lacks which is crucial if you're that small. Schroeder is a excellent skater but at 5'8 you would have hoped that he was even more quicker.

We already were drafting a lot of size the last few years. Not like our prospect pool was all smaller players. Would have loved domi at 9th and then went for a safer pick at 24th.
If he has any relation to goon head Ty then no. I wouldn't have drafted him at all.

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08-10-2013, 08:27 PM
  #38
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No for a number of reasons. This pick had to pan out in a meaningful way because it will always be under the Schneider spotlight. Horvat it not only a safe bet to be at worst a 3rd line centre, but he also has all the intangibles to be a leader on the team for a long time. Horvat also fills a bigger need by solidifying our centre depth for when Hank retires or hits a serious decline. Kesler-Horvat-Gaunce, if the young guys pan out, will be an awesome foundation for the top-9; they can all contribute at both ends of the ice and play a physical, high motor game that will create an identity for the Nucks as a hard team to play against. With Kassian and Jensen also plugged in there, we could have a big "built for the playoffs" team for a long time. Also with Hunter and Schroeder in the system now (granted Hunter wasn't there at the time) we have two small guys in our top-9 and any more than that would be put us at a physical disadvantage.

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08-10-2013, 08:31 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Let's not be homers.

Max Domi is superior offensively compared to Horvat, in terms of junior hockey but with Horvat's defensive game, and size, anyone would see Horvat as a player who may translate better in the NHL.
Homers ? How long has Horvat been a Canuck ?

Max Domi will probably be the next steve Downie.

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08-10-2013, 08:34 PM
  #40
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Max Domi will probably be the next steve Downie.
You do know Max is nothing like his dad, or ****in' Steve Downie right..

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08-10-2013, 08:46 PM
  #41
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Don't boxscore scout. Horvat never went on a hot streak. He had a slow start to the season and then started scoring at a much higher rate at 20 games in and kept that pace until the end of the season.

Further more, Domi has been playing the easier minutes all year while Horvat is taking the tough one. here's why Horvat is more desirable than Domi:
Quote:
@BrockOtten: You want to know why Bo Horvat is getting consideration for the Top 15? In the series against Plymouth...

@BrockOtten: Bo Horvat 5 goals. Vincent Trocheck 1 goal. Not only did he shut down Trocheck defensively, but he outproduced him offensively too.
Domi is not nearly as efficient a player as Horvat is. Players who are productive in tough minutes are who you win with.

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08-10-2013, 08:51 PM
  #42
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Should add there's a question if Domi even sticks to center as his strengths and weaknesses make him a more ideal as a winger.

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08-10-2013, 08:53 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Should add there's a question if Domi even sticks to center as his strengths and weaknesses make him a more ideal as a winger.
We should be drafting BPA, not based on position.

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08-10-2013, 09:00 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We should be drafting BPA, not based on position.
That's why we chose Horvat......

Who would you rather have Teows or Kane? Just out of curiosity.

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08-10-2013, 09:06 PM
  #45
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No. Non. Nein. Nyet. Ne. Bu4

Edge Horvat: size, two-way play, face-offs, clutch performance, no health uncertainty.
Edge Domi: playmaking
Tie: goalscoring

The clincher has to be the fact that, Horvat, per Pierre McGuire:
-"one team had him in the top 4"
-"Carolina was considering him at 5"
-"two other teams had him in the top 6"

It's also believed the Habs were trying to move up to get him by dealing with Jersey and Philly. I know of no teams that rated Domi so highly.

We know where the Canucks took him and the importance of how MG views the centre position. "Huge upside" are the words he used.

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08-10-2013, 09:21 PM
  #46
Rey
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Originally Posted by Trelane View Post
No. Non. Nein. Nyet. Ne. Bu4

Edge Horvat: size, two-way play, face-offs, clutch performance, no health uncertainty.
Edge Domi: playmaking
Tie: goalscoring

The clincher has to be the fact that, Horvat, per Pierre McGuire:
-"one team had him in the top 4"
-"Carolina was considering him at 5"
-"two other teams had him in the top 6"

It's also believed the Habs were trying to move up to get him by dealing with Jersey and Philly. I know of no teams that rated Domi so highly.

We know where the Canucks took him and the importance of how MG views the centre position. "Huge upside" are the words he used.
At the same time, TSN ranked Domi ahead of Horvat so who cares what McGuire had to say.

We don't need to sunk to a level where you use everything against Domi as a prospect, to say that Horvat is a better player. Wait and see, and be happy about it. There's no reason for anyone to trash Domi.

Speculation is crap. People said that Carolina wanted Horvat at 5th, but the fact is they didn't draft Horvat. Don't believe everything you hear. You don't know which team wanted who, what, and where.

A GM that praises his 1st rounder? Who would've thought?

Seriously, lets just list everything good about Horvat, and one thing about Domi.

Domi edges Horvat in speed, aggressiveness, offense, play making. Horvat Clutch in the playoffs, yet Domi puts up 10 more points than Horvat.

Can't anyone be honest for once? Domi was passed up because he's 5'9, therefore will probably struggle defensively. It's not cause he has limited potential.


Last edited by Rey: 08-10-2013 at 09:43 PM.
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Old
08-10-2013, 09:32 PM
  #47
Vankiller Whale
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That's why we chose Horvat......

Who would you rather have Teows or Kane? Just out of curiosity.
That's really besides the point. All I was saying is it doesn't matter what position Domi ends up playing.

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Old
08-10-2013, 09:38 PM
  #48
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We should be drafting BPA, not based on position.
IMO I think there is such a thing as being too dogmatic with the whole BPA thing

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08-10-2013, 09:44 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
At the same time, TSN ranked Domi ahead of Horvat so who cares what McGuire had to say.

We don't need to sunk to a level where you use everything against Domi as a prospect, to say that Horvat is a better player. Wait and see, and be happy about it. There's no reason for anyone to trash Domi.

Speculation is crap. People said that Carolina wanted Horvat at 5th, but the fact is they didn't draft Horvat. Don't believe everything you hear. You don't know which team wanted who, what, and where.
Who's trashing anything? We're adults here, mostly, unlike at CDC, ain't we? Must we end all comparisons by "but so-and-so is also good" and other nauseating PC inspired niceties. The fact that both guys are good and that one prospect will in time prove to be better is given. If it's Domi, so be it.

Mine was a statement of facts of what was said during the broadcast. Just before each pick TSN showed a range of options or "best available" tailored for the team that was on the clock. I've no doubt that they would rate Domi as the better offensive prospect, but probably not so in anything else.

I've zero issue with honesty here. Size matters! At the time I wanted the big Russian, but Kovalchuk's departure cured me of any residual doubts. Fact is I would be a lot less impressed if Nucks came out of it with two sub 5'11" prospects. A team needs complimentary pieces.

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08-10-2013, 09:52 PM
  #50
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Size matters! At the time I wanted the big Russian, but Kovalchuk's departure cured me of any residual doubts
It shouldn't have, Kovy was an all-star in North America for 12 years and will most likely be back as well.

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