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Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread III: "Hemsky Off The Market" - MacT Presser

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Old
08-09-2013, 05:46 PM
  #51
Trafalgar Law
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Had a good lockout year, that's great. Joel Ward also put up 18 points in 73 games last year, so he definitely is the inconsistent type. Ward also wasn't playing with a broken foot. Ward's career year is Hemsky's off year.

I wouldn't say Hemsky has any sense of entitlement whatsoever, that seems like a biased statement, and there is still a way to have Hemsky and still fit role players like you mentioned.
Smyth 2.25M
Grebeshkov 1.5M
N. Schultz 3.5M

7.25M right there that really shouldn't be there. That 7.25M could have been used towards getting a 3rd line LW and adding a depth C.
This is the second season in a row where Hemsky has turned in a subpar performance while still wanting top 6 minutes. At this point, it's no longer an off year as much as it is decline.

There are many ways we could've added solid bottom 6 players. Ryan Smyth should never have been brought back and N Schultz should've been cap dumped to Colorado or something. Getting rid of Hemsky is just the fastest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim2001 View Post
To Edmonton:
Bertuzzi (2m modified NTC)
Tootoo (1.9m)

To Detroit:
N Schultz (3.5m)

I think this makes sense for both teams. Edmonton still has a weak bottom 6 and extra D, while Detroit has extra forwards (15 listed on capgeek, one RFA and could resign Cleary or Brunner) and a lackluster D core.
Eww, I'll take Eaves or Miller instead.

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08-09-2013, 05:51 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
This is the second season in a row where Hemsky has turned in a subpar performance while still wanting top 6 minutes. At this point, it's no longer an off year as much as it is decline.

There are many ways we could've added solid bottom 6 players. Ryan Smyth should never have been brought back and N Schultz should've been cap dumped to Colorado or something. Getting rid of Hemsky is just the fastest.



Eww, I'll take Eaves or Miller instead.
Bertuzzi is a cap dump in the same way N Schultz is and he adds size and agitation the Oilers desperately need. Also could replace Horcoff as a net presence on the PP.

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08-09-2013, 06:20 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Slim2001 View Post
To Edmonton:
Bertuzzi (2m modified NTC)
Tootoo (1.9m)

To Detroit:
N Schultz (3.5m)

I think this makes sense for both teams. Edmonton still has a weak bottom 6 and extra D, while Detroit has extra forwards (15 listed on capgeek, one RFA and could resign Cleary or Brunner) and a lackluster D core.
While I wish this made more sense, the Wings have Kronwall/Ericsson/Kindl/DeKeyser/Quincey/Smith/Lashoff and probably don't want 3.5M Schultz.

However, I do think with Renney on board, that they will land Corey Potter somehow.

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08-09-2013, 06:46 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
While I wish this made more sense, the Wings have Kronwall/Ericsson/Kindl/DeKeyser/Quincey/Smith/Lashoff and probably don't want 3.5M Schultz.

However, I do think with Renney on board, that they will land Corey Potter somehow.
Corey Potter for Henrik Zetterberg.

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08-09-2013, 06:55 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Corey Potter for Henrik Zetterberg.
Hey now, we'd probably have to add Omark (aka o'mark)

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08-09-2013, 07:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
5 million in cap+bag of pucks>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ales Hemsky. With 5 million in cap space, we would've had far more cap flexibility in the offseason and could've picked up Eric Nystrom, Maxim LaPierre, and Benoit Pouliot or something. That makes us a much better team today and going forward. It wouldn't matter anyway, since the Capitals wouldn't do Ward for Hemsky unless we retained salary.
And in the offseason of 2014, we lose one of Petry, Nuge, or JSchultz (Dubs isn't included, we'll have to give big money to him or another #1 goalie as well) because we don't have the cap space to bring them back since we brought in superstars like Nystrom, Lapierre, and Pouliot

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08-09-2013, 08:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by skorf View Post
And in the offseason of 2014, we lose one of Petry, Nuge, or JSchultz (Dubs isn't included, we'll have to give big money to him or another #1 goalie as well) because we don't have the cap space to bring them back since we brought in superstars like Nystrom, Lapierre, and Pouliot
RNH's raise is accounted for by dumping N Schultz, J Schultz's raise is accounted for by dumping Smyth, Petry/Dubnyk's raises are accounted for by the rising cap.

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08-09-2013, 09:24 PM
  #58
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Sometimes you have to wonder how so many Oiler fans developed this "inferiority complex" towards any player outside their team.

The Isles wouldn't do Hemsky for Okposo? Are you serious? How do you justify this? Did you mistake Okposo for Evander Kane ?

- Are we talking about the same Okposo who's 25 years old? (4 years younger than Hemmer?)
- Are we talking about the same Okposo who had 4 goals last season?
- Are we talking about the same Okposo who was on a 7 goal pace last season? (Over 82 games)
- Are you going to say that Okoposo is a "powerforward" while Hemsky's a "finesse player"? The same Okposo who had 46 PIMs to Ales Hemsky's 52 PIM's in their last full seasons?
- Are you talking about the same Okposo who has had a career 0.58 PPG to Ales Hemsky's 0.76 PPG?
- Are you sure Garth Snow would really balk that BADLY over an Okposo for Hemsky proposal? Really?!?

What's wrong with Oiler fans? Why do we always have to downplay player values if they're not in the Fab 5? Why? Makes no sense.
I thought the proposal was for Ales Hemsky, give it up, Hemsky isn't getting us much. Probably similar to Horcoff not a 25 year old that has a bit of potential.

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08-10-2013, 02:44 PM
  #59
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Whas about
Hemmer at full cap retention to Detroit for abdelkader and a 2nd ?

Why? As much as I want hemsky to rebound and think he would if played properly, I think it will be to compettitive to get some top six minutes under eakins.

His game would suit Detroit perfectly. Playing with datsyuk and hank would be a boon.

For the oil, I'm not sure he will get the right situations to make his stock go up. Plus having him as a career oiler is probably not in his best interest given his skillset and the depth on rw and on the half boards.

So...


Justin abdelkader


Ales hemsky (cap retention)

Abdelkader fits the oilers coach and rounds out the third line nicely.

Abdelkader-Gordon-Jones

The oilers have worse scoring depth but a better balanced team, maybe.

I would press for Detroit to add since I think hemsky could play well in a third line role, better than abdelkader? But that is a question of motivation and commitment to defensive zones

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08-10-2013, 03:43 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
Whas about
Hemmer at full cap retention to Detroit for abdelkader and a 2nd ?

Why? As much as I want hemsky to rebound and think he would if played properly, I think it will be to compettitive to get some top six minutes under eakins.

His game would suit Detroit perfectly. Playing with datsyuk and hank would be a boon.

For the oil, I'm not sure he will get the right situations to make his stock go up. Plus having him as a career oiler is probably not in his best interest given his skillset and the depth on rw and on the half boards.

So...


Justin abdelkader


Ales hemsky (cap retention)

Abdelkader fits the oilers coach and rounds out the third line nicely.

Abdelkader-Gordon-Jones

The oilers have worse scoring depth but a better balanced team, maybe.

I would press for Detroit to add since I think hemsky could play well in a third line role, better than abdelkader? But that is a question of motivation and commitment to defensive zones
No way the Red Wings do this. They like him in Detroit and from what I read from comments by Wings fans is that he did a good job playing with Datsyuk in the playoffs.

Not to mention Abdelkader is signed long term and Hemsky is a FA at the end of the year.

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08-10-2013, 08:45 PM
  #61
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No way the Red Wings do this. They like him in Detroit and from what I read from comments by Wings fans is that he did a good job playing with Datsyuk in the playoffs.

Not to mention Abdelkader is signed long term and Hemsky is a FA at the end of the year.
I asked Red Wing fans about Abdelkader last year and the sentiment was that he could be had for a song. They were not impressed with him, said he had a penchant for boneheaded plays and bad penalties.

Edit: And I'm sorry, but go read CP if you need a laugh. "Gaudreau is as sure a thing as being a top-line NHL player not in the NHL as there is outside of maybe Mackinnon."

Look it could happen, but cmon, and that's just a taste of the ridiculousness going on in that Oilers/Flames rebuild thread.


Last edited by PeakOil: 08-10-2013 at 08:55 PM.
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08-10-2013, 08:55 PM
  #62
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Full cap retention would be a ridiculous idea even if it was allowed, which it isn't.

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08-10-2013, 10:14 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
RNH's raise is accounted for by dumping N Schultz, J Schultz's raise is accounted for by dumping Smyth, Petry/Dubnyk's raises are accounted for by the rising cap.
And what about Petry's?

If Nuge gets 6 million... he's 3.7 now so a raise of 2.3 (plus add on klefbom's 1.2 million since he'll take Schultz's roster spot). So that's right on Schultz's 3.5 million salary

Ryan Smyth makes 2.2 million, we would have to pay his replacement about 1 million so 1.2 million + 3.7 (JSchultz's current salary) = 4.9 million, I hope we could get him for that but no guarantees

Petry makes 1.75 million... he will at least get what Smid gets (3.5) but likely get at least 4 million depending on this year (2.25 million raise)
Dubnyk makes 3.5 million... he will get at least a 5 (1.5 million raise) and I think Smith's 5.6 million a year deal will be close to what Dubnyk would get right now
-so Petry and Dubnyk raises... we are counting on the cap to go up about 4 million to fit them in.

Thing is, if JSchultz, Dubnyk, or Petry have a very good season. They could price themselves out of our market range. We'd be relying on the cap going up 5-6 million next year which COULD happen but there's no guarantees.

If you wanted those other guys, MacT could have gotten them.
I like most of what MacT has done, but he dropped the ball with the 3rd line guys and the bottom pairing defenseman

Signing Jones and Grebeshkov were mistakes... even Joensuu may be but I'd like to see him play a few games first.

We could have gotten guys like Nystrom, Pouliot, and Lapierre if we hadn't done those other signings (well maybe not Nystrom since at 2.5 million a year that is a lot of money for a guy of his skill set). But Lapierre makes 1.1 million (I'd have loved to have used Jones's money on him, but management didn't or signed Lapierre instead of Joensuu), or sign Pouliot instead of Grebs....

Or maybe Raymond or some of the other unsigned guys on a 1 year 1.5 million year deal to play on our 3rd line for a year (and try to get more $ next offseason) instead of having Grebs as a 7th D.

We had the cap room to get those guys, but management made some questionable signings to fill out our rosters
There are guys out there better suited to be 3rd line guys for our team then Jones.
Grebs likely is our 7th D now (petry, JSchultz, Smid, Ference, NSchultz, Belov).... and I'd rather have a cheaper/younger Larsen sitting in the press box then Grebs. And if we don't like Larsen as #7, I'd have loved to see us sign Fistric to be our #7 D at minimum salary
That would have saved us enough cap space to make a run at some of the guys that were mentioned as being good fits for our 3rd line (which I agree with), but I would not want to see Hemsky bought out to fill our bottom lines with guys that COULD affect our cap situation next year.
Successful teams lock up their stars first (Chicago, Pittsburgh) and then find role players to fill in the other spots. We need to make sure we get our guys signed first and then look at bringing in other help.

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08-10-2013, 10:54 PM
  #64
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Klefbom's 1.2 would be a replacement of another player as well. The Oilers are fine with the cap. One of the few things Tambellini didn't do wrong was lock us into long term, bad deals. We have few concerns going ahead unless guys severely overperform, which has its benefits anyways.

Edit: I misunderstood the Klefbom thing, still think we are fine. Dubnyk isn't getting 5.6 million here unless he contends for the vezina. Dubnyk just signed a deal, it's clear he's not getting 5.6 right now.


Last edited by PeakOil: 08-10-2013 at 11:01 PM.
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08-10-2013, 11:02 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeakOil View Post
I asked Red Wing fans about Abdelkader last year and the sentiment was that he could be had for a song. They were not impressed with him, said he had a penchant for boneheaded plays and bad penalties.

Edit: And I'm sorry, but go read CP if you need a laugh. "Gaudreau is as sure a thing as being a top-line NHL player not in the NHL as there is outside of maybe Mackinnon."

Look it could happen, but cmon, and that's just a taste of the ridiculousness going on in that Oilers/Flames rebuild thread.
Things changed though, But on the CP comment....I like to visit that place for a good LOL from time to time.

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08-10-2013, 11:22 PM
  #66
PeakOil
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Things changed though, But on the CP comment....I like to visit that place for a good LOL from time to time.
GM's tend to have a lot longer outlooks than fans though. A good round or two doesn't change what Abdelkader is. Hemsky is still an all-world, but enigmatic talent. Would love to see him with Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

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08-10-2013, 11:29 PM
  #67
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Thing is, if JSchultz, Dubnyk, or Petry have a very good season. They could price themselves out of our market range. We'd be relying on the cap going up 5-6 million next year which COULD happen but there's no guarantees.
Hall ($6.0M)-RNH ($6.0M)-Eberle ($6.0M)
Perron ($3.812M)-Gagner ($4.8M)-Yakupov ($3.775M)
? ($2.0M)-Gordon ($3.0M)-? ($2.0M)
Joensuu ($950K)-Lander ($950K)-? ($900K)
R. Hamilton ($600K)
? ($750K)

Smid ($3.5M)-J. Schultz ($5.0M)
Ference ($3.25M)-Petry ($3.5M)
Klefbom ($1.244M)-Marincin ($870K)
? ($800K)

Dubnyk ($5.0M)
? ($1.00M)

=$65.7M

Cap could inch up $2M and we would be fine... just goes to show how much dead weight is on this roster today

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08-11-2013, 12:22 AM
  #68
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Hemsky is not a ideal third line player, but, it is clear no one wants him. He is going to play 60 games and get 35 points, add a little something the the second pp unit, then move on next year. I think we need to come to terms with this.

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08-11-2013, 12:41 AM
  #69
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Hemsky is not a ideal third line player, but, it is clear no one wants him. He is going to play 60 games and get 35 points, add a little something the the second pp unit, then move on next year. I think we need to come to terms with this.
Hopefully he takes the hint... turns into Dvorak 2.0... heck even Satan was an o.k. two way guy late in his career... Hemmer either does that or he has just as crappy a year point wise but with -15 rating and no NHL prospects... thankfully KHL will pay for his skills if that is the case

Either way he will go down as one of the worst best players in Oil history... so much razzle dazzle... so much potential... just did not have the body or mental game to put it together more than three full years

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08-11-2013, 01:10 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Hopefully he takes the hint... turns into Dvorak 2.0... heck even Satan was an o.k. two way guy late in his career... Hemmer either does that or he has just as crappy a year point wise but with -15 rating and no NHL prospects... thankfully KHL will pay for his skills if that is the case

Either way he will go down as one of the worst best players in Oil history... so much razzle dazzle... so much potential... just did not have the body or mental game to put it together more than three full years
I think the fact the oilers never put anyone with him who could actually play hockey was more of a factor then body or mental game.

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08-11-2013, 01:13 AM
  #71
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Hopefully he takes the hint... turns into Dvorak 2.0... heck even Satan was an o.k. two way guy late in his career... Hemmer either does that or he has just as crappy a year point wise but with -15 rating and no NHL prospects... thankfully KHL will pay for his skills if that is the case

Either way he will go down as one of the worst best players in Oil history... so much razzle dazzle... so much potential... just did not have the body or mental game to put it together more than three full years
I'm not sure that's fair. This guy was the best player on the Oilers, hands down, for half a decade. Yes he never turned into one of the best fwds in the game like many expected him to, but he's been a loyal player and a quality player for us for a long time. He's certainly had some disappointing seasons lately, but he's been better than his stats have indicated and tbh I wouldn't mind him as a long term option (at a very reasonable cap hit if he'd take it) going forward.

ALes Hemsky is a quality hockey player, and the one time he was needed to perform in meaningful games, he showed up and then some. We don't have an 06 cup run without Hemsky scoring clutch goal after clutch goal.

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08-11-2013, 01:31 AM
  #72
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We don't have an 06 cup run without Hemsky scoring clutch goal after clutch goal.
That is great but one above average season and playoff run and more broken than healthy seasons would point to the one great season (especially when you think of who had feeding him other Oilers outlet passes that year) being a aberration...

I mean come on the best thing you can say about him is he had 77 points one year and was fourth in postseason scoring on a Cup loser... no great shakes at all for a guy who has some of the best hands in the game... just more proof he is over rated except for one maybe two things...

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08-11-2013, 04:48 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Hopefully he takes the hint... turns into Dvorak 2.0... heck even Satan was an o.k. two way guy late in his career... Hemmer either does that or he has just as crappy a year point wise but with -15 rating and no NHL prospects... thankfully KHL will pay for his skills if that is the case

Either way he will go down as one of the worst best players in Oil history... so much razzle dazzle... so much potential... just did not have the body or mental game to put it together more than three full years
This is so ridiculous. Regardless of what you say or believe he has been a good soldier for Edmonton. Suffered lots of injuries. Been through some really ****** years with no end in sight, with absolutely no one to play with. This organization has been spinning its wheels in the mud for years upon years, even still. I'm not saying the guy is a great player or exemplary teammate, he's not without his faults and sure recently he's been on a downward trend. But he's still a good player, a serviceable player with world class speed... he's not a bum.


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08-11-2013, 10:00 PM
  #74
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I'm a bit surprised by the lack of "OMG OFFERSHEET KADRI" talk on this forum. I would've thought it would dominate proposal threads... What, with people dreaming up line-ups with Kadri in our line-up.

Maybe this board has finally passed on the idea of an offer sheet, which is a good thing.

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08-11-2013, 10:10 PM
  #75
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I'm a bit surprised by the lack of "OMG OFFERSHEET KADRI" talk on this forum. I would've thought it would dominate proposal threads... What, with people dreaming up line-ups with Kadri in our line-up.

Maybe this board has finally passed on the idea of an offer sheet, which is a good thing.
Eh... I would offersheet Franson... 6'6 RHD who could get 40 points... yeah I don't mind that at all

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Smyth-Gordon-Hemsky
Joensuu-Lander-Jones
Brown R. Hamilton

Smid-Franson (4 X $4M)
Ference-Petry
N. Schultz-J. Schultz
Potter

Whopping $123K in capspace lol... and maybe best D in the AHL next year:

Grebeshkov-Larsen
Klefbom-Marincin
Belov-Fedun
Hunt

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