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Bo Horvat Discussion and Debate

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Old
08-11-2013, 01:21 AM
  #76
Wisp
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Going through the Flyers draftboard is interesting. Drop the defensemen from the 1st round and Horvat is the 7th ranked forward, with only Gauthier the only one available not already picked (Nichushkin and Domi are the 11th-13th ranked forwards).

I don't like the trust the Flyers ability to evaluate defensemen, but I like what they do with forwards a lot (even if their 6th ranked forward is Gauthier lol).

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08-11-2013, 01:25 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
St.Louis
Gallagher
Marchand
Gionta
Cammalleri
Macdonald
Kane (exact same height as Domi)
Yakupov

And there's more. I'm not even bashing our pick - Im glad we've got a kid with Bergeron potential, just that you shouldn't write off Domi because he's 5'9''...
Okay well MSL, Gallagher, Marchand, Gionta, Cammy and MacDonald are actually 5'9 and under.

MSL being the only real top liner, then there are the better suited in a 2nd line role but can play top line guys in Marchand, Gallagher and Cammy. Then below them is Gionta and MacDonald. So saying there are lots of top line smurfs in comparison to Domi is kind of rediculous as MSL is the only legit one and when he retires there will be well none.

I think Domi will be a fine player, I honestly would have probably been just as happy with him at 9. Just proving a point

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08-11-2013, 01:37 AM
  #78
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Im hoping you can see how the difference in context, between the Domi/Horvat and Shinkaruk picks makes this fact irreverent.
My bad there. Not quite sure why I brought that up.

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08-11-2013, 01:38 AM
  #79
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McDonald is taller than 5'9" and also retired.


Last edited by RobertKron: 08-11-2013 at 03:15 AM.
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08-11-2013, 01:40 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Love View Post
I screamed at my TV when we didnt take Nichushkin at #9. I was absolutely livid.

I didnt know much about Horvat at the time and Im warming up to him more now. Only time will tell who was the right choice.
I literally screamed at the TV "We need a stud center!" I also told Bob to shut up when he mentioned 'the big Russian.' Nichkushkin was the only available player I knew anything about, and I was very wary anyways, so I suppose I slipped easily into a grass-is-greener mentality as long as a center was picked.

Helped that Feebster liked the pick, which is who I go read to assuage all my fears.


Last edited by Wisp: 08-11-2013 at 01:53 AM.
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08-11-2013, 01:54 AM
  #81
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My bad there. Not quite sure why I brought that up.
props to you for conceding the point, and not just arguing it, dont see that much around here.

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08-11-2013, 02:00 AM
  #82
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Where is this picture of the Philly draft board you guys have been talking about?

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08-11-2013, 02:02 AM
  #83
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Where is this picture of the Philly draft board you guys have been talking about?
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1481171&page=2

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08-11-2013, 02:17 AM
  #84
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Curious, why?
He seems like a very smart, well-rounded player and I like his offensive upside better than Horvat's.

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08-11-2013, 02:17 AM
  #85
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Am I the only one who was still yelling "I can't believe you ****ing traded Schneider" up until we picked Horvat, and hadn't had time to contemplate who I wanted? Lol

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08-11-2013, 03:45 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Am I the only one who was still yelling "I can't believe you ****ing traded Schneider" up until we picked Horvat, and hadn't had time to contemplate who I wanted? Lol
Honestly, it felt like everything was happening, i was pissed and i didn't even hear Gilman make the pick. Just read who we picked in the GDT. Watched it for the first time when the Canucks uploaded it on YT that night. You're not alone.

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08-11-2013, 03:49 AM
  #87
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The Schneider news left me feeling empty. All I could focus on was the pick.

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08-11-2013, 04:01 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Canucks5551 View Post
He seems like a very smart, well-rounded player and I like his offensive upside better than Horvat's.

I can see that, although I'm mixed on Wennberg overall. He's quicker, a better stick handler, and shiftier than Horvat. A lot of Wennberg's creativity can be seen in the open ice - which is why it's hard for me to get a good read on him. What happens when he adjusts to NA ice, where time and space are taken away?

Horvat's strength makes me like him more. He's already 211lbs. Reported 206lbs at the combine. That's significant considering that Hunter thinks there's a lot of room to get stronger... He could very well be 220lbs in the pros... A power centre. That, and he seems very comfortable playing in heavy traffic.

We'll know more when Wennberg comes over.


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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Am I the only one who was still yelling "I can't believe you ****ing traded Schneider" up until we picked Horvat, and hadn't had time to contemplate who I wanted? Lol


Nope. You weren't the only one.

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08-11-2013, 04:07 AM
  #89
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Did you guys disregard the rumours/report that Schneider was on the block the night before? I was unhappy to hear them but it meant I wasn't in disbelief when it happened the next day.

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08-11-2013, 05:17 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Did you guys disregard the rumours/report that Schneider was on the block the night before? I was unhappy to hear them but it meant I wasn't in disbelief when it happened the next day.

The rumours had to be weighted against the nearly 2 years of public information out there, mostly from Gillis and Luongo themselves. From that POV, it seemed highly improbable that Gillis would do an about face at the last minute... and then it happened.

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08-11-2013, 05:20 AM
  #91
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Funny, as Gilman said "From the London Knights..." I turned to my friends and said that it better be Horvat. Was very relieved to hear Boho instead of Domi. Will be interesting to see how each guy develop and I with Domi the best, I have no second thoughts as of right now though

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08-11-2013, 11:10 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Did you guys disregard the rumours/report that Schneider was on the block the night before? I was unhappy to hear them but it meant I wasn't in disbelief when it happened the next day.
I heard the rumours and was still in shock.

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08-11-2013, 11:44 AM
  #93
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Am I the only one who was still yelling "I can't believe you ****ing traded Schneider" up until we picked Horvat, and hadn't had time to contemplate who I wanted? Lol
I was really confused, as I had no idea which player the Canucks were targeting. Nichushkin fit the size bill, but I didn't think it likely that we'd move up to take a Russian. Shinkaruk and Domi were the next ones I thought of, but both were smallish, so I also didn't see them as players the Canucks were specifically targeting. I was totally clueless as to who the Canucks would take, although I was definitely hoping for Nichushkin.

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08-11-2013, 12:03 PM
  #94
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Absolutely not. Horvat is the right pick every time. I don't think number 9 is the pick you want to start guessing with, and you just don't know if Domi's size will be an issue in the NHL. There are far more examples of small guys busting than there are MSL's. Horvat has a much, much better chance of becoming an impact NHL player. His floor is probably a very good 3rd line center, and his ceiling is something like where Kesler is.

It's even more the right pick after Shinkaruk fell into our laps, too. The Richards/Carter comparison is actually pretty intriguing. It could end up something like that.

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08-11-2013, 12:11 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Cody Hodgson View Post
Like the title of the thread says, should they have?

Did the Canucks pick Horvat because he was safe? I think we need more pure offensive talent than big 2 way forwards. Plus Gaunce seems like he's on his way to becoming a solid NHLer to play behind sedin and Kesler the next 3-4 years. Horvat seemed a little redundant and less proven IMO. Domi has had the spotlight on him his entire hockey career so far so I feel like he would be able to handle the spotlight and pressure of a city like vancouver. He's got this real edge and competitiveness to his game.
I have this feeling like horvat just got on a hot streak and it skewed his draft position too much.

I feel like his size was the least of the concern and unlike Schroeder he would be able to play and excel on the wing, something Schroeder has looked out of place at. People will bring up the size issue and compare him to Schroeder but they are different players.

Max Domi is already bigger, stronger and well trained physically. Probably around 195 lbs of pure muscle. Where as Jordan Schroeder tops out at around 180 lbs. Domi seems to also have the explosive speed Schroeder lacks which is crucial if you're that small. Schroeder is a excellent skater but at 5'8 you would have hoped that he was even more quicker.

We already were drafting a lot of size the last few years. Not like our prospect pool was all smaller players. Would have loved domi at 9th and then went for a safer pick at 24th.
Precisely my concerns, as well. You've nailed it.

When they said "London Knights", I was thrilled, because I thought for sure it was going to be Domi. When Horvat's name was announced, it was like a big kick to the gut. A lot of people are projecting him to be a versatile, 3rd line type, which frightens me. Domi might have some boom-or-bust to him, but the payoff of a "boom" is so huge that it justifies the risk.

I also cannot put too high a value on the fact that Domi's been playing under a microscope for the last 5 years, if not longer. The importance of excelling under those parameters really can't be overstated.

Domi's got real potential to be a star, IMO. I think we picked the wrong guy, yes.

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08-11-2013, 12:18 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Precisely my concerns, as well. You've nailed it.

When they said "London Knights", I was thrilled, because I thought for sure it was going to be Domi. When Horvat's name was announced, it was like a big kick to the gut. A lot of people are projecting him to be a versatile, 3rd line type, which frightens me. Domi might have some boom-or-bust to him, but the payoff of a "boom" is so huge that it justifies the risk.

I also cannot put too high a value on the fact that Domi's been playing under a microscope for the last 5 years, if not longer. The importance of excelling under those parameters really can't be overstated.

Domi's got real potential to be a star, IMO. I think we picked the wrong guy, yes.
Dan Russell, ladies and gentlemen.

Do tell, how many times have you seen Domi play to arrive at the conclusion that he's going to be a star whereas Horvat will be a 'versatile, 3rd line type'? The only microscope Domi has been under has been the superfan/scout demographic that maybe makes up one percent of the people who follow junior/minor hockey and that was simply because of his name.

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Old
08-11-2013, 12:19 PM
  #97
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Absolutely not. Horvat is the right pick every time. I don't think number 9 is the pick you want to start guessing with, and you just don't know if Domi's size will be an issue in the NHL. There are far more examples of small guys busting than there are MSL's. Horvat has a much, much better chance of becoming an impact NHL player. His floor is probably a very good 3rd line center, and his ceiling is something like where Kesler is.

It's even more the right pick after Shinkaruk fell into our laps, too. The Richards/Carter comparison is actually pretty intriguing. It could end up something like that.
Pretty much how I feel as well.
Shinkaruk and Domi is not as intriguing as Horvat and Shinkaruk. Then add Kassian, Gaunce, and Jensen and this team will have some size in the future to go along with Shinkaruk who is slighter but potentially has a higher skill.
The other intriguing thing about Horvat is how he just dominated the playoffs. Players with his grit and size really tend to shine in those kind of games. We've somewhat missed that in the past.


Last edited by vanwest: 08-11-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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Old
08-11-2013, 12:28 PM
  #98
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Lots? lol. Name 5 at 5'9 or under. I'll start.. Martin St. Louis.... and....
Oh, so 5'9" is the threshold that determines your future success as an NHL player? Hilarious.

The reality is that there's barely any noticeable difference between a 5'9" guy and even a 6'0" guy. Debating over a few inches is stupid. Bo Horvat's 6'0", he's average. Domi is 5'9", he's undersized. Great. What's the difference, really? Not much. Did Mason Raymond - 6'0" - look a lot bigger on the ice than Derek Roy did? Hardly. Immaterial.

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08-11-2013, 12:34 PM
  #99
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Oh, so 5'9" is the threshold that determines your future success as an NHL player? Hilarious.

The reality is that there's barely any noticeable difference between a 5'9" guy and even a 6'0" guy. Debating over a few inches is stupid. Bo Horvat's 6'0", he's average. Domi is 5'9", he's undersized. Great. What's the difference, really? Not much. Did Mason Raymond - 6'0" - look a lot bigger on the ice than Derek Roy did? Hardly. Immaterial.
If there is no difference, then why are there barely any 5'9" players in the NHL?

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08-11-2013, 12:41 PM
  #100
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Oh, so 5'9" is the threshold that determines your future success as an NHL player? Hilarious.

The reality is that there's barely any noticeable difference between a 5'9" guy and even a 6'0" guy. Debating over a few inches is stupid. Bo Horvat's 6'0", he's average. Domi is 5'9", he's undersized. Great. What's the difference, really? Not much. Did Mason Raymond - 6'0" - look a lot bigger on the ice than Derek Roy did? Hardly. Immaterial.


The guy said there are lots of smurf (in comparison to Domi) top line players in the league. When in reality there is just one, MSL. That's it.

Try not to be so accosting.

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