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Bo Horvat Discussion and Debate

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Old
08-11-2013, 01:46 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
Dan Russell, ladies and gentlemen.

Do tell, how many times have you seen Domi play to arrive at the conclusion that he's going to be a star whereas Horvat will be a 'versatile, 3rd line type'? The only microscope Domi has been under has been the superfan/scout demographic that maybe makes up one percent of the people who follow junior/minor hockey and that was simply because of his name.
I said that he's got a lot of potential to be a star. His dad was a star (from a notoriety perspective), he's been in the spotlight his whole life. He's thrived in the spotlight. His very name itself psychs up his opponents to play against him - it puts a target on his back. Succeeding in the face of those challenges makes what he's done even more impressive. Think Max Domi will be the type of guy that gets scared in the playoffs?

He has a rare and unique skillset - an extremely skilled, offensively creative type (I hope you all saw his feed to McDavid the other day?). He's also got a brashness and a cockiness to him, which is pretty common amongst guys who make it to the top (Kane, anyone?). I would've liked to have seen the Canucks take a gamble, for once, on the higher-reward guy. The OP brings up a valid point in that Brendan Gaunce is pretty comparable to Bo Horvat, in a lot of ways.

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08-11-2013, 01:56 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
I said that he's got a lot of potential to be a star. His dad was a star (from a notoriety perspective), he's been in the spotlight his whole life. He's thrived in the spotlight. His very name itself psychs up his opponents to play against him - it puts a target on his back. Succeeding in the face of those challenges makes what he's done even more impressive. Think Max Domi will be the type of guy that gets scared in the playoffs?

He has a rare and unique skillset - an extremely skilled, offensively creative type (I hope you all saw his feed to McDavid the other day?). He's also got a brashness and a cockiness to him, which is pretty common amongst guys who make it to the top (Kane, anyone?). I would've liked to have seen the Canucks take a gamble, for once, on the higher-reward guy. The OP brings up a valid point in that Brendan Gaunce is pretty comparable to Bo Horvat, in a lot of ways.
What do you mean "Take a gamble for once" They took a gamble 15 picks later with Shinkaruk. Did you not remember 09 when Schroeder was the highly rated small prospect, did they not take a risk with him?

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08-11-2013, 02:02 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
props to you for conceding the point, and not just arguing it, dont see that much around here.
Although I'm afraid it's got me thinking. Domi's draft combine results were 5'9.5 If he grows even a half inch more he'll be the same height as or bigger than Patrick Kane, Mike Cammalleri, Derek Roy, Tyler Ennis, Ray Whitney, Kris Versteeg, Brian Gionta, Danny Briere, Brad Marchand, David Desharnais, Jiri Hudler, Steve Sullivan, Bryan Little, Ryan Callahan, and young players such as Jaden Schwartz, Brendan Gallagher, Cory Conacher.

Very likely I missed some players as well.

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08-11-2013, 02:05 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
I said that he's got a lot of potential to be a star. His dad was a star (from a notoriety perspective), he's been in the spotlight his whole life. He's thrived in the spotlight. His very name itself psychs up his opponents to play against him - it puts a target on his back. Succeeding in the face of those challenges makes what he's done even more impressive. Think Max Domi will be the type of guy that gets scared in the playoffs?

He has a rare and unique skillset - an extremely skilled, offensively creative type (I hope you all saw his feed to McDavid the other day?). He's also got a brashness and a cockiness to him, which is pretty common amongst guys who make it to the top (Kane, anyone?). I would've liked to have seen the Canucks take a gamble, for once, on the higher-reward guy. The OP brings up a valid point in that Brendan Gaunce is pretty comparable to Bo Horvat, in a lot of ways.
Like in the same way Domi is comparable to Schroeder?

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08-11-2013, 02:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Oh, so 5'9" is the threshold that determines your future success as an NHL player? Hilarious.

The reality is that there's barely any noticeable difference between a 5'9" guy and even a 6'0" guy. Debating over a few inches is stupid. Bo Horvat's 6'0", he's average. Domi is 5'9", he's undersized. Great. What's the difference, really? Not much. Did Mason Raymond - 6'0" - look a lot bigger on the ice than Derek Roy did? Hardly. Immaterial.
Still waiting for you to name another.

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08-11-2013, 02:20 PM
  #106
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Honestly, who the hell cares? We got Shinkaruk at 24th who produced the same numbers with worst linemates, I have a feeling that Shinkaruk will be every bit as good as Domi in the height of their careers.

If we picked Domi at 9th, who would we choose at 24th that is anywhere near as good as Horvat? Because if we picked Domi at 9th, no way in hell is Gillis taking Shinkaruk at 24th, he's not taking two big risks in the first round, we would have ended up with someone like Dickinson (Tall with size potential, and relatively safe 2-way centreman.)

With the way things turned out, we are able to have our cake and eat it.

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08-11-2013, 02:32 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Callhee View Post
Honestly, who the hell cares? We got Shinkaruk at 24th who produced the same numbers with worst linemates, I have a feeling that Shinkaruk will be every bit as good as Domi in the height of their careers.

If we picked Domi at 9th, who would we choose at 24th that is anywhere near as good as Horvat? Because if we picked Domi at 9th, no way in hell is Gillis taking Shinkaruk at 24th, he's not taking two big risks in the first round, we would have ended up with someone like Dickinson (Tall with size potential, and relatively safe 2-way centreman.)

With the way things turned out, we are able to have our cake and eat it.
I don't get this logic. If we feel that two "big risks" were the BPAs, then we have every right to say so. You can't just say that if we took Domi we'd take Dickinson over Shinkaruk. I'd like to believe the Canucks always(or at least, should always) take who they feel is the best player. Not try to balance some sort of imaginary scale.

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08-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Rey View Post

Can't anyone be honest for once? Domi was passed up because he's 5'9, therefore will probably struggle defensively. It's not cause he has limited potential.
Let's be reality here.... How was he really trashing Domi ??

And he does have limited potential because he's 5'9.

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08-11-2013, 02:34 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Callhee View Post
Honestly, who the hell cares? We got Shinkaruk at 24th who produced the same numbers with worst linemates, I have a feeling that Shinkaruk will be every bit as good as Domi in the height of their careers.

.
Ha... I get it.



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08-11-2013, 02:40 PM
  #110
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Being Tie Domi's son makes me instantly dislike him for some reason.

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08-11-2013, 02:49 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Being Tie Domi's son makes me instantly dislike him for some reason.
Maybe if he played like he had at least one nut. But he does not.

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08-11-2013, 02:58 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Precisely my concerns, as well. You've nailed it.

When they said "London Knights", I was thrilled, because I thought for sure it was going to be Domi. When Horvat's name was announced, it was like a big kick to the gut. A lot of people are projecting him to be a versatile, 3rd line type, which frightens me. Domi might have some boom-or-bust to him, but the payoff of a "boom" is so huge that it justifies the risk.

I also cannot put too high a value on the fact that Domi's been playing under a microscope for the last 5 years, if not longer. The importance of excelling under those parameters really can't be overstated.

Domi's got real potential to be a star, IMO. I think we picked the wrong guy, yes.
Predictable.

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08-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Being Tie Domi's son makes me instantly dislike him for some reason.
Me too.

We'd potentially have to deal with years Me Idiot durning the seasons with radio and TV interviews.

Don't want his stink on my team.

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08-11-2013, 03:19 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
What do you mean "Take a gamble for once" They took a gamble 15 picks later with Shinkaruk. Did you not remember 09 when Schroeder was the highly rated small prospect, did they not take a risk with him?
Shinkaruk a gamble, at 24? Why? Because he's short? Is that what you're suggesting?

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08-11-2013, 03:24 PM
  #115
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I wish I could read the Internet of alternate realities, just to see what King of ES has to say if we picked Domi. This guy is always moving the goal posts to suit his argument, so I think it's safe to say he'd be saying the exact opposite of what he's saying now.

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08-11-2013, 03:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Although I'm afraid it's got me thinking. Domi's draft combine results were 5'9.5 If he grows even a half inch more he'll be the same height as or bigger than Patrick Kane, Mike Cammalleri, Derek Roy, Tyler Ennis, Ray Whitney, Kris Versteeg, Brian Gionta, Danny Briere, Brad Marchand, David Desharnais, Jiri Hudler, Steve Sullivan, Bryan Little, Ryan Callahan, and young players such as Jaden Schwartz, Brendan Gallagher, Cory Conacher.

Very likely I missed some players as well.
He's basically the same height as his dad, and he weighs 190+lbs. Guys that have filled in like that don't usually add much more height. I can't find his combine result in the physical development thing, but if he's listed as mature (and at 190, I'd imagine it'll either be that or he's fat) it's probably unlikely that he grows much.

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08-11-2013, 03:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
I wish I could read the Internet of alternate realities, just to see what King of ES has to say if we picked Domi. This guy is always moving the goal posts to suit his argument, so I think it's safe to say he'd be saying the exact opposite of what he's saying now.
Truth.

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08-11-2013, 03:34 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
I wish I could read the Internet of alternate realities, just to see what King of ES has to say if we picked Domi. This guy is always moving the goal posts to suit his argument, so I think it's safe to say he'd be saying the exact opposite of what he's saying now.
Not a single scouting report that I saw had Horvat ranked higher than Domi, so pardon me for immediately thinking that it was going to be Domi when "London Knights" was uttered.

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08-11-2013, 03:39 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Not a single scouting report that I saw had Horvat ranked higher than Domi, so pardon me for immediately thinking that it was going to be Domi when "London Knights" was uttered.
1. You didn't read a lot of scouting reports then. Not even Central Scoutings, apparently.
2. You've flip flop so much around here, I think you're lying to me about you reaction anyways.

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08-11-2013, 03:46 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Not a single scouting report that I saw had Horvat ranked higher than Domi, so pardon me for immediately thinking that it was going to be Domi when "London Knights" was uttered.
Exactly which prospect rankings did you check if you didn't look at ISS or NHL Central Scouting? Consider yourself not pardoned.

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08-11-2013, 03:59 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Although I'm afraid it's got me thinking. Domi's draft combine results were 5'9.5 If he grows even a half inch more he'll be the same height as or bigger than Patrick Kane, Mike Cammalleri, Derek Roy, Tyler Ennis, Ray Whitney, Kris Versteeg, Brian Gionta, Danny Briere, Brad Marchand, David Desharnais, Jiri Hudler, Steve Sullivan, Bryan Little, Ryan Callahan, and young players such as Jaden Schwartz, Brendan Gallagher, Cory Conacher.

Very likely I missed some players as well.
IMO what I was getting at anyways, Domis height is only an issue when asking if we should have used the # 9 pick that we traded Schneider to get (based on the high risk associated with size), however his size is not an issue if we are talking about using our later first. not one person would complain about it if we got him with our second first.

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08-11-2013, 04:01 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Shinkaruk a gamble, at 24? Why? Because he's short? Is that what you're suggesting?
Because he's a high risk high reward player. That's the NHL draft equivalent of a gamble.

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08-11-2013, 04:01 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Oh, so 5'9" is the threshold that determines your future success as an NHL player? Hilarious.

The reality is that there's barely any noticeable difference between a 5'9" guy and even a 6'0" guy. Debating over a few inches is stupid. Bo Horvat's 6'0", he's average. Domi is 5'9", he's undersized. Great. What's the difference, really? Not much. Did Mason Raymond - 6'0" - look a lot bigger on the ice than Derek Roy did? Hardly. Immaterial.
HAHAHA... WHAT!?

Barely a difference between 5'9 and 6' ?? Are you serious ? I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure there's a 3" difference. 3" allows a play to be much heavier, longer reach.. so much more. Ridiculous statement.

The reason Mason Raymond did not look much different than Roy is because he's not 6". He's about 5"10 and a half.

And lastly; Yes. The threshold for height to be successful in the NHL is probably about 5'8 - 5'9. In all pro sports there's a physical minimum each player has to take. (There's always rare exceptions) So what's hilarious is the why wouldn't the min height requirement for a greatly successful career be about 5'9 ????! So much facepalm here.

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08-11-2013, 04:03 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
HAHAHA... WHAT!?

Barely a difference between 5'9 and 6' ?? Are you serious ? I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure there's a 3" difference. 3" allows a play to be much heavier, longer reach.. so much more. Ridiculous statement.

The reason Mason Raymond did not look much different than Roy is because he's not 6". He's about 5"10 and a half.

And lastly; Yes. The threshold for height to be successful in the NHL is probably about 5'8 - 5'9. In all pro sports there's a physical minimum each player has to take. (There's always rare exceptions) So what's hilarious is the why wouldn't the min height requirement for a greatly successful career be about 5'9 ????! So much facepalm here.
Raymond is a legit 6 feet, Roy is more like 5'8''. Seen them both.

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08-11-2013, 04:06 PM
  #125
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Horvat screams Gillis BPA anyways. Guy has been hot for a giant centerman for two years now.

I'd be curious where the Canucks actually ranked Shinkaruk, too.

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