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Old
08-12-2013, 05:58 PM
  #26
montreal
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Thanks as always for a great read, Montreal. I'd probably put Tinordi at 1 myself, but as you say the top group is interchangeable.

It's an interesting group of prospects. Lot of high-risk high-reward forwards in the mix, which sure makes watching them develop fun.
thanks. I really like the top 3 as I'm a huge Collberg fan and I am clearly impressed with McCarron. With Tinordi and Beaulieu, I don't like them as much as others do as I feel some fans are going to be very disappointed to different degrees. With Tinordi I get the impression some view him as a future Chara or Pronger, someone that is dirty to play against but I don't see it. To me I would have Tinordi #1 if he had a mean streak to his game and was more physical, perhaps we'll see it in the future as he gets more comfortable and fills out more plus gets stronger.

But I like Tinordi for the Habs a lot more then I do Beaulieu who I think is going to get eaten alive at times by Hab fans as his defensive game is a major problem for him. If I felt it was something he could improve upon in a big way then I would have him as the #1 prospect but I'm not sold that he has the smarts along with other issues. That said both should easily be full time NHLers in the future, I just don't think they are going to be as good as many hope they will be. But I can easily see why anyone would rank them at the top, as Tinordi should be very valuable to the Habs and Beaulieu can take over a game when he wants as he's clearly highly skilled.

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Old
08-12-2013, 06:30 PM
  #27
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Thanks montreal for your ranking, like reading your stuff since, well, forever haha, gives good insights about our prospects.

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08-12-2013, 07:25 PM
  #28
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I got with upside and likelyhood of reaching, I take into consideration everthing I can think of. What has their development path looked like, how have they improved on their weaknesses, what areas of concern are more important then others (i'm really big on lower body strength)

Cheers for the explanation. Much appreciated.

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08-12-2013, 07:53 PM
  #29
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thanks. I really like the top 3 as I'm a huge Collberg fan and I am clearly impressed with McCarron. With Tinordi and Beaulieu, I don't like them as much as others do as I feel some fans are going to be very disappointed to different degrees. With Tinordi I get the impression some view him as a future Chara or Pronger, someone that is dirty to play against but I don't see it. To me I would have Tinordi #1 if he had a mean streak to his game and was more physical, perhaps we'll see it in the future as he gets more comfortable and fills out more plus gets stronger.

But I like Tinordi for the Habs a lot more then I do Beaulieu who I think is going to get eaten alive at times by Hab fans as his defensive game is a major problem for him. If I felt it was something he could improve upon in a big way then I would have him as the #1 prospect but I'm not sold that he has the smarts along with other issues. That said both should easily be full time NHLers in the future, I just don't think they are going to be as good as many hope they will be. But I can easily see why anyone would rank them at the top, as Tinordi should be very valuable to the Habs and Beaulieu can take over a game when he wants as he's clearly highly skilled.
Good list......it is obviously a very subjective endeavour but I like it because I agree with a lot of it lol.

I have a similar feeling with Beaulieu as I have mentioned in the past...his situation looks dangerously similar to Brisebois in many ways for myself. He is the type of player that could definitely end up being the city's favourite whipping boy if he doesn't clean up his game. That being said, he has a ton of talent and has to be ranked very high on the list.

Also glad to see that you didn't rank Dumont at all. I have repeatedly stated that he doesn't belong on this list as he has almost no upside and is barely even an asset as he is easily replaceable via waivers and has no trade value. He is a competent 4th line fill in for injuries and a good minor leaguer but players like that are literally a dime a dozen in the NHL. I like his courage and determination but that doesn't mean that he isn't completely expendable.

Anyways.....always look forward to reading your posts and enjoy your input.

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Old
08-12-2013, 08:40 PM
  #30
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Sven Andrighetto #25 - 2012-2013 Season Highlights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFLKZHYYG-Y


Yeah just video, but this kid can play, he is more complete than Sebastian Collberg... Collberg can just play in top 6 role, Andrighetto can play in bottom 6 because this kid is talented, but too complete.

Andrighetto competes every game, he is very great skater, great vision, he can score and pass the puck.

This kid is the real deal... my friend LIKE VERY HIM... more than Nikita Kucherov, Mikhail Grigorenko. (Andrighetto >> Grigorenko this season and playoff.. yeah Andrighetto has a 19/20 years old, but Grigorenko is more big player)

Ok yeah, I put a pressure on him but he is very underrated prospect.

He has all tools for play with Galchenyuk in the future.

I'm maybe very high on him but he is very great prospect, tremendous potential.


Last edited by JonathanToews19clutc*: 08-12-2013 at 08:46 PM.
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Old
08-12-2013, 09:47 PM
  #31
Darz
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good list Dan and some good insight as well

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Old
08-12-2013, 10:55 PM
  #32
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Thanks for giving us something to read since August is slow for hockey!

Wondering about Ellis...he seems to have dropped in many Hab fans' rankings. Why? Doesn't he have Gorges potential? (Gorges from 2-3 yrs ago! when he was a warrior...hopefully he comes back!).


My top 16 (for what it's worth!)...what I think other teams' GMs would go after (in order) if we traded with them:

1.Tinordi/McCarron
2. McCarron/Tinordi
3. Collberg
4. Fucale
5. Beaulieu
6. Hudon
7. Lehkonen
8. de la Rose
9. Dietz
10. Nygren
11. Thomas
12. Bozon
13. Leblanc
14. Bennett
15. Andrighetto
16. Ellis/Thrower


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 08-12-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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Old
08-12-2013, 11:08 PM
  #33
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My top 15, with potential.

1 - Sebastian Collberg. (1st or 2nd liner.)
2 - Nathan Beaulieu. (#2 or #3 defenseman with pp specialist.)
3 - Jarred Tinordi. (#4 defenseman.)
4 - Michael McCarron. (2nd or 3rd line winger).
5 - Sven Andrighetto. (1st or 2nd line winger.)
6 - Jacob de la Rose. (2nd or 3rd line winger.)
7 - Artturi Lehkonen. (1st or 2nd line winger.)
8 - Zach Fucale. (#1 or #2 goalie.)
9 - Charles Hudon. (2nd line or 3rd line winger.)
10 - Magnus Nygren. (#4 defenseman.)
11 - Brady Vail. (#3 center.)
12 - Louis Leblanc. (#2 or #3 center.)
13 - Dalton Thrower. (#4-5-6 defenseman.)
14 - Christian Thomas. (2nd line winger.)
15 - Martin Reway. (2nd line winger.)

Guys like Thrower, Thomas, Reway maybe not play in the NHL.. but they have potential.


Last edited by JonathanToews19clutc*: 08-13-2013 at 09:13 PM.
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Old
08-13-2013, 01:10 PM
  #34
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I love how our top 20 all have the potential to play at least 25 games in the NHL. Not all in Montreal or course, but there's a lot of talent in this list.

Great job, montreal.

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Old
08-13-2013, 01:30 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
(i'm really big on lower body strength)
Just admit it, you like big booties. If Beyonce was a Habs prospect, you would have her ranked #1!




good read btw, thanks for posting!

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Old
08-13-2013, 02:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
One thing I never factor in is being closer to NHL ready, as it's not fair to the recently drafted prospects. Dumont I assume he makes the NHL, Tokarski I don't know what is going on, the whole situation has been very odd so I left him off.
I enjoyed your list, but I disagree strongly with this thinking.

The reason proximity to the NHL is so important is two fold:

1. It increases their value since they they are closer to helping an NHL club
2. There is less variable, as you have more information to grade them on which decreases their likelihood to bust.

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Old
08-13-2013, 02:34 PM
  #37
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Thanks montreal for your ranking, like reading your stuff since, well, forever haha, gives good insights about our prospects.
many thanks!

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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Good list......it is obviously a very subjective endeavour but I like it because I agree with a lot of it lol.

I have a similar feeling with Beaulieu as I have mentioned in the past...his situation looks dangerously similar to Brisebois in many ways for myself. He is the type of player that could definitely end up being the city's favourite whipping boy if he doesn't clean up his game. That being said, he has a ton of talent and has to be ranked very high on the list.

Also glad to see that you didn't rank Dumont at all. I have repeatedly stated that he doesn't belong on this list as he has almost no upside and is barely even an asset as he is easily replaceable via waivers and has no trade value. He is a competent 4th line fill in for injuries and a good minor leaguer but players like that are literally a dime a dozen in the NHL. I like his courage and determination but that doesn't mean that he isn't completely expendable.

Anyways.....always look forward to reading your posts and enjoy your input.
Beaulieu certainly reminds me a bit of Ron Hainsey who back then used to remind me of Brezzy (I use Hainsey as a comp more then Brezzy for more off ice things as both it appears had some maturing to do) We seem to agree on both Beaulieu and Dumont (love the way he plays).

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Originally Posted by Darz View Post
good list Dan and some good insight as well
If I get the Duffman seal of approval that's all I can ask for in life. oh yea!

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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Thanks for giving us something to read since August is slow for hockey!

Wondering about Ellis...he seems to have dropped in many Hab fans' rankings. Why? Doesn't he have Gorges potential? (Gorges from 2-3 yrs ago! when he was a warrior...hopefully he comes back!)
Thanks. I have to admit I was very disappointed in Ellis. What I saw from Pateryn, I thought I would see from Ellis as he really struggled to do anything in the offensive zone. I know some around here really like him and i'm sure he will improve next season but we'll see by how much and if he can continue. I'd like to see him get quicker and more physical.

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Originally Posted by MaxHabs24 View Post
I love how our top 20 all have the potential to play at least 25 games in the NHL. Not all in Montreal or course, but there's a lot of talent in this list.

Great job, montreal.
Thanks, one good thing about the list is the Habs have a ton of interesting prospects.

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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
Just admit it, you like big booties. good read btw, thanks for posting!
Thanks, for the record I actually love big boobies.

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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I enjoyed your list, but I disagree strongly with this thinking.

The reason proximity to the NHL is so important is two fold:

1. It increases their value since they they are closer to helping an NHL club
2. There is less variable, as you have more information to grade them on which decreases their likelihood to bust.
I look at it in terms of development years. Being closer to the NHL doesn't mean a lot to me since I look at where each is at in their development stage and then I compare them to players when they are at the same developmental level. As an example, Greg Pateryn is 23 and if he had an amazing camp in the fall he could in theory win a roster spot (not saying he will or won't). But it's not fair to compare someone that has 5 years of development post draft to someone that was just drafted as I try to compare the most recent guys to Pateryn from 2008-2009.

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Old
08-13-2013, 04:11 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I look at it in terms of development years. Being closer to the NHL doesn't mean a lot to me since I look at where each is at in their development stage and then I compare them to players when they are at the same developmental level. As an example, Greg Pateryn is 23 and if he had an amazing camp in the fall he could in theory win a roster spot (not saying he will or won't). But it's not fair to compare someone that has 5 years of development post draft to someone that was just drafted as I try to compare the most recent guys to Pateryn from 2008-2009.
But you are comparing them. And while it might not be "fair", it needs to factor into an evaluation.

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Old
08-13-2013, 05:12 PM
  #39
Estimated_Prophet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I enjoyed your list, but I disagree strongly with this thinking.

The reason proximity to the NHL is so important is two fold:

1. It increases their value since they they are closer to helping an NHL club
2. There is less variable, as you have more information to grade them on which decreases their likelihood to bust.
Both of your points also work directly against your premise.

1. It can decrease their value as their top end ceiling may have been significantly lowered. For example, Leblanc would have had a higher trade value 3 years ago due to higher expectations for his upside. Even though he his much closer to playing in the NHL now he certainly has a lower trade value.

2. Less variables does not equate to a better prospect especially if previous variables have not progressed favourably and are now known to be weak attributes instead of potentially strong or fixable deficiencies. The more information that is gained on a prospect is just as likely to rule out the player from booming as it is from busting, depending on which player you are talking about.

The only logical way to compare prospects is exactly as Dan has done. It is an apples to apples comparison and the reasoning behind it is undeniable.

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Old
08-13-2013, 06:08 PM
  #40
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Im also very high on Andrighetto.. I really think this kid is for real..

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Old
08-13-2013, 07:00 PM
  #41
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Great article, montreal!

Mac on top is very interesting and has me pretty excited.

I for one like that you don't count NHL readiness. It makes it more interesting and also involves a lot more thought on your end. Amazing as always.

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Old
08-14-2013, 10:07 AM
  #42
montreal
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
But you are comparing them. And while it might not be "fair", it needs to factor into an evaluation.
well of course you are comparing them, but for me, I compare them on even terms. So in the case of Pateryn vs Didier vs Reway, you have 3 prospects that are all at different stages of development. Clearly Pateryn is closer to the NHL but he's in year 5 of his development, Dider is just in year 3 and Reway in year 1. So in this case when comparing Reway to the others I compare the others not at their current level but where they were at during their first year of development to be on even footing with Reway.

When I compare Didier to others I compare him to how each player was in his 3rd year of devleopment, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
Great article, montreal!

Mac on top is very interesting and has me pretty excited.

I for one like that you don't count NHL readiness. It makes it more interesting and also involves a lot more thought on your end. Amazing as always.
Thanks.

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