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Old
08-06-2013, 07:37 PM
  #926
diceman934
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Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
It's 22.5K a year plus up to 5k more for bantam hockey... So the 25K quoted earlier is correct. The financial assistance is on a NEED basis. The committee clearly has final say, therefore not everyone gets the assistance. The bursaries are not re-payable and there is some requirement to seek corporate/private sponsors. Bottom line is it costs a ton of money. Period. If you wish to spend it, your choice... I know student athletes with immaculate grades, high honor roll, top 3-5 % of their age scholastically who attend hometown high schools too where no one pays anything more than regular school fees. So, I guess I personally would have had a hard time coughing up that much cash when the same results can be obtained right at home and playing AA bantam. Not to mention the same kids either have jobs or work the family farm... You give me a hard working rural kid with sound scholastic ability and some good hockey talent, there's a kid you can work with... Sometimes not so much with a player who perhaps is more privileged. Those that go to ND and the like who do require assistance, good for them and I would wish them all the best in study and sport and good on the parent(s) for sacrificing for their child.
Boy....we're did you get the information that you posted....there is no requirement at all to obtain sponsorship corporate or otherwise...

Did you ever look on the back on their jerseys.....no names at all,...only the Jr team has the players names on them as it is a league mandated rule.

There are also no sponsorship names on their jerseys....they have no team sponsors....the hounds logo on the front and the players numbering the back....that is it.

The individuals who attend Notre Dame are not treated as privileged individuals....in fact most are not from privileged homes....most are from the working class like everyone. The students clean the dorms, work in the kitchen and clean and help in other areas campus....they do not get paid and all students are required to complete the same amount of time. What makes this environment different is that most all students are there for athletics which makes it a highly competitive environment..there is virtually nothing to do but school, hockey (sports) and workout or play competitive games...no shopping malls, no parties, etc. That is what makes ND what it is.

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08-06-2013, 07:53 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by SaskRinkRat View Post
I think at some point we probably need to get to a place where we don't think of the Saskatoon teams as foreign invaders joining a morally superior group of teams in a league, and instead think of all ~20 as having equal claim to the league.


I'm not suggesting that "fair is equal", what I'm suggesting is that we should forget about the concepts of "fair" and "equal" all together and instead prioritize player development. This means we have to dig deeper into the concept of player development and create standards around ice time distribution that are most likely to lead to the most development for the greatest amount of kids. At that point, if we think the evidence shows that playing some kids 40-50 minutes a game is the best way to develop all players, we should do that. Hint: the evidence suggests the opposite.


I'm not suggesting "desire" isn't a part of it, but the primary reason is that it's a job. They get paid. Which is the opposite scenario for players in minor hockey in Saskatchewan - their families pay so they CAN play.


I agree completely that hockey is a significant part of life for elite players. It's also a pretty small component when you think of all of the other things the kid encounters outside of hockey and all they'll encounter as they grow up. With all of the other things that will teach them that "life isn't fair", why should we go out of our way to teach them that lesson through hockey too, especially when we can exercise a fair amount of control over whether or not that's the case?

I'm not advocating fair play in the sense that a coach's discretion be taken completely out of the equation. In fact, I think that's the last thing we should do. But there are some pretty reasonable guidelines that could be developed that would still give coaches very significant discretion, and still make sure everyone can play and develop.

Think about it this way. In bantam hockey, teams have 3 lines. In the NHL, teams have 4 lines. If you focused for a second on the ice time distribution between lines 1 and 3 in the NHL (ignoring the 4th line), you'd see a distribution that's actually way more equal than the way certain bantam teams distribute ice time amongst their 3 lines. You'd see line matching taking place, and you'd see different scenarios where certain players play and others do not, but you'd never see a #1 centre or a #1 d-man play for 50 minutes of a regular 60 minute game. Ever.
Pay to play....All players should play in all situations...

As soon as they are not paying to play the ice time will then be earned.

I have never understood the coaches who does not follow the above....minor hockey is a recreational activity at every level and when the parents pay they should expect their child to play a similar amount as the next child....it is called development....you select them you play them..

I have always followed this philosophy and found that the environment on the team remains positive and the team performs better as a result.

I was not given a coaching job as a result of me admitting this to a convener this past year...no child on the team, a great hockey resume and only parents selected to coach....this is what is wrong with minor hockey in Canada....far to many grand dreams living through their child.

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08-07-2013, 01:50 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by SaskRinkRat View Post
I think at some point we probably need to get to a place where we don't think of the Saskatoon teams as foreign invaders joining a morally superior group of teams in a league, and instead think of all ~20 as having equal claim to the league.

i think it's fantastic they are in the league. Looks like some great coaches too.


I'm not suggesting that "fair is equal", what I'm suggesting is that we should forget about the concepts of "fair" and "equal" all together and instead prioritize player development. This means we have to dig deeper into the concept of player development and create standards around ice time distribution that are most likely to lead to the most development for the greatest amount of kids. At that point, if we think the evidence shows that playing some kids 40-50 minutes a game is the best way to develop all players, we should do that. Hint: the evidence suggests the opposite.

Any coach playing a 14 year old 40 min/game is not being very smart. Why do associations continue allowing this? Let me guess, because they are non parents and God forbid a parent get behind the bench (even though he is qualified). Associations with problem coaches can not keep bringing them back just because no other non parents apply


I'm not suggesting "desire" isn't a part of it, but the primary reason is that it's a job. They get paid. Which is the opposite scenario for players in minor hockey in Saskatchewan - their families pay so they CAN play.

It's not about getting paid it's the concept of working hard in practice/off ice that gets you rewarded with more game time. Again, all too often parents complain after or three quarters through the season that their child is not getting equal ice. If the conversation is had up front everyone knows what to expect. Furthermore, parents can make the decision to play and stay or not. Development occurs in practice. Application of development occurs in games. Any coach can clearly see who is putting in extra effort on and off ice.

I agree completely that hockey is a significant part of life for elite players. It's also a pretty small component when you think of all of the other things the kid encounters outside of hockey and all they'll encounter as they grow up. With all of the other things that will teach them that "life isn't fair", why should we go out of our way to teach them that lesson through hockey too, especially when we can exercise a fair amount of control over whether or not that's the case?

I'm not advocating fair play in the sense that a coach's discretion be taken completely out of the equation. In fact, I think that's the last thing we should do. But there are some pretty reasonable guidelines that could be developed that would still give coaches very significant discretion, and still make sure everyone can play and develop.

Think about it this way. In bantam hockey, teams have 3 lines. In the NHL, teams have 4 lines. If you focused for a second on the ice time distribution between lines 1 and 3 in the NHL (ignoring the 4th line), you'd see a distribution that's actually way more equal than the way certain bantam teams distribute ice time amongst their 3 lines. You'd see line matching taking place, and you'd see different scenarios where certain players play and others do not, but you'd never see a #1 centre or a #1 d-man play for 50 minutes of a regular 60 minute game. Ever.
pro hockey first and second liners are also the majority of you PP and PK

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08-08-2013, 12:12 AM
  #929
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Boy....we're did you get the information that you posted....there is no requirement at all to obtain sponsorship corporate or otherwise...

Did you ever look on the back on their jerseys.....no names at all,...only the Jr team has the players names on them as it is a league mandated rule.

There are also no sponsorship names on their jerseys....they have no team sponsors....the hounds logo on the front and the players numbering the back....that is it.

The individuals who attend Notre Dame are not treated as privileged individuals....in fact most are not from privileged homes....most are from the working class like everyone. The students clean the dorms, work in the kitchen and clean and help in other areas campus....they do not get paid and all students are required to complete the same amount of time. What makes this environment different is that most all students are there for athletics which makes it a highly competitive environment..there is virtually nothing to do but school, hockey (sports) and workout or play competitive games...no shopping malls, no parties, etc. That is what makes ND what it is.
I am glad to see that someone else has the same background knowledge on what ND is and what all pertains to this prep school.

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08-08-2013, 01:16 AM
  #930
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boy....we're did you get the information that you posted....there is no requirement at all to obtain sponsorship corporate or otherwise...

Did you ever look on the back on their jerseys.....no names at all,...only the Jr team has the players names on them as it is a league mandated rule.
Perhaps then I need clarification on the following information I got directly off the ND web page:

" Please Note: Families receiving financial aid will be required to participate in the College’s Match Play Program. The Match Play Program seeks out private and corporate sources who donate funds which are distributed to individual students receiving assistance."

Located under Fee Schedules tab- financial aid information.... How is one supposed to interpret this? Anyone??

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08-08-2013, 01:19 AM
  #931
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Perhaps then I need clarification on the following information I got directly off the ND web page:

" Please Note: Families receiving financial aid will be required to participate in the College’s Match Play Program. The Match Play Program seeks out private and corporate sources who donate funds which are distributed to individual students receiving assistance."

Located under Fee Schedules tab- financial aid information.... How is one supposed to interpret this? Anyone??
"Sources" and "donate" seem explicitly clear to me. Someone provide insight on the match play program because to me it looks like an obligation to seek out funds.

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08-08-2013, 09:34 AM
  #932
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[QUOTE=diceman934;69985585]Boy....we're did you get the information that you posted....there is no requirement at all to obtain sponsorship corporate or otherwise...

Did you ever look on the back on their jerseys.....no names at all,...only the Jr team has the players names on them as it is a league mandated rule.

There are also no sponsorship names on their jerseys....they have no team sponsors....the hounds logo on the front and the players numbering the back....that is it.

If you apply for the apple financial aid and are accepted.....you are required to search out some corporate funding. I have the nice red binder from there college in front of me.


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08-09-2013, 02:43 AM
  #933
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[QUOTE=nah68;70026771]
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Boy....we're did you get the information that you posted....there is no requirement at all to obtain sponsorship corporate or otherwise...

Did you ever look on the back on their jerseys.....no names at all,...only the Jr team has the players names on them as it is a league mandated rule.

There are also no sponsorship names on their jerseys....they have no team sponsors....the hounds logo on the front and the players numbering the back....that is it.

If you apply for the apple financial aid and are accepted.....you are required to search out some corporate funding. I have the nice red binder from there college in font of me.
Thank you nah68 for validating... Much appreciated. It's my understanding this has been in place for awhile.

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08-09-2013, 07:59 AM
  #934
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Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Perhaps then I need clarification on the following information I got directly off the ND web page:

" Please Note: Families receiving financial aid will be required to participate in the College’s Match Play Program. The Match Play Program seeks out private and corporate sources who donate funds which are distributed to individual students receiving assistance."

Located under Fee Schedules tab- financial aid information.... How is one supposed to interpret this? Anyone??
The match play program....."the College’s Match Play Program. The Match Play Program seeks out private and corporate sources who donate funds which are distributed to individual students receiving assistance." I think it is self explanatory....the program seeks out the money from private and corporate sponsors....as it states.

Your post was very misleading and factually wrong. The only requirement of the person in the match play program is that the student writes one letter of thanks to the match sponsor....that is it.

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08-09-2013, 08:05 AM
  #935
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[QUOTE=nah68;70026771]
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Boy....we're did you get the information that you posted....there is no requirement at all to obtain sponsorship corporate or otherwise...

Did you ever look on the back on their jerseys.....no names at all,...only the Jr team has the players names on them as it is a league mandated rule.

There are also no sponsorship names on their jerseys....they have no team sponsors....the hounds logo on the front and the players numbering the back....that is it.

If you apply for the apple financial aid and are accepted.....you are required to search out some corporate funding. I have the nice red binder from there college in front of me.
Sure you do.....there is no expectations of a student or their parents to find funding for themselves to attend school or to seek out their own financial aid....they ask everyone students families for leads or donations to help support the financial aid program.....the students who are accepted to attend school is in no way tied to the supplying the school with sponsors...

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08-09-2013, 08:16 AM
  #936
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[QUOTE=PokeCheck101;70053205]
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Originally Posted by nah68 View Post

Thank you nah68 for validating... Much appreciated. It's my understanding this has been in place for awhile.
He never validated anything.....i can tell you or anyone factually how the match play program works....

If you are receiving financial aid they would like you to provide possible leads from businesses that may have an interest in donating money to the school to help support the financial aid program....the school contacts the possible donor and seeks a possible donation... The students acceptance is only conditional of having enough money in the program to accept them and not on finding individual funding. There have been many students who have attended ND for free and they are not the top players in hockey.....often they are not hockey players...if you need clarification call the school....

Making assumptions and then posting them on here is disingenuous.

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08-09-2013, 08:26 AM
  #937
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[QUOTE=diceman934;70055337]
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Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post

He never validated anything.....i can tell you or anyone factually how the match play program works....

If you are receiving financial aid they would like you to provide possible leads from businesses that may have an interest in donating money to the school to help support the financial aid program....the school contacts the possible donor and seeks a possible donation... The students acceptance is only conditional of having enough money in the program to accept them and not on finding individual funding. There have been many students who have attended ND for free and they are not the top players in hockey.....often they are not hockey players...if you need clarification call the school....

They ask the same from all students families....it is not only the students who are the recipient of financial aid.

Making assumptions and then posting them on here is disingenuous.

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08-09-2013, 08:23 PM
  #938
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[QUOTE=diceman934;70055337]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post

He never validated anything.....i can tell you or anyone factually how the match play program works....

If you are receiving financial aid they would like you to provide possible leads from businesses that may have an interest in donating money to the school to help support the financial aid program....the school contacts the possible donor and seeks a possible donation... The students acceptance is only conditional of having enough money in the program to accept them and not on finding individual funding. There have been many students who have attended ND for free and they are not the top players in hockey.....often they are not hockey players...if you need clarification call the school....

Making assumptions and then posting them on here is disingenuous.
Excuse me? I've not been disingenuous in the slightest. I am reporting what's on the web site and take offence to your comment. Perhaps ND needs to clarify what they write. Who in reading the exact statement written on the site could be expected to interpret it any differently?? Another thing, "possible leads" "interest in donating".... So sponsorship is sought after by students... So what. Call it what you want or whatever words you choose to use. It's on the web site, I'm not pulling it out of thin air nor am I disingenuous.

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08-09-2013, 08:27 PM
  #939
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[QUOTE=PokeCheck101;70073263]
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post

Excuse me? I've not been disingenuous in the slightest. I am reporting what's on the web site and take offence to your comment. Perhaps ND needs to clarify what they write. Who in reading the exact statement written on the site could be expected to interpret it any differently?? Another thing, "possible leads" "interest in donating".... So sponsorship is sought after by students... So what. Call it what you want or whatever words you choose to use. It's on the web site, I'm not pulling it out of thin air nor am I disingenuous.
Nah68 seemed to have same info

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08-09-2013, 10:49 PM
  #940
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Diceman
For your information the red binder includes 2 cd's, student app form, student health info, medical form, principal recommendation, english an math recommendation, activity form, fee schedule, fridge magnets, and so on! Financial aid program sheet states....Please note. Families receiving financial aid will be required to participate in the college match play program. The math play program seeks out private and corporate source who donate funds which are distributed to individual students receiving assistance. THE END! What part of seeking out funds don't you get, or donate funds, or participate in this program. Sorry that I read this and don't quite get it the same as you, but thats pretty straight forward....and furthermore if you are looking for a scholastic or athletic scholarship you still need to go through this program(apple). I am in no way bashing ND....great place to be just has turned awfully political for my liking.


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08-11-2013, 05:46 PM
  #941
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Diceman
For your information the red binder includes 2 cd's, student app form, student health info, medical form, principal recommendation, english an math recommendation, activity form, fee schedule, fridge magnets, and so on! Financial aid program sheet states....Please note. Families receiving financial aid will be required to participate in the college match play program. The math play program seeks out private and corporate source who donate funds which are distributed to individual students receiving assistance. THE END! What part of seeking out funds don't you get, or donate funds, or participate in this program. Sorry that I read this and don't quite get it the same as you, but thats pretty straight forward....and furthermore if you are looking for a scholastic or athletic scholarship you still need to go through this program(apple). I am in no way bashing ND....great place to be just has turned awfully political for my liking.
BLA BLA BLA!!! Change the subject. If you have not gone there or do not intend on going there or do not plan on sending your child there. Don't comment! Unless you know 100% whats it all about.

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08-11-2013, 11:56 PM
  #942
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BLA BLA BLA!!! Change the subject. If you have not gone there or do not intend on going there or do not plan on sending your child there. Don't comment! Unless you know 100% whats it all about.

That's the point your missing....our intent was to send our kid there, took the folder, read the info, was excited about the whole thing until we applied to apple financial and decided against it. Totally evasive questions, about rec vehicles and vacations, let alone income statements that need to be sent to a individual in Ontario?? Why? So that this company can make a recommendation about my kid to ND, the staff there knows who they want, let them decide instead of the political BS that needs to take place....or otherwise I guess just pay the 27k which we don't want to do. Bursaries were available, only under the condition that you apply through apple. Why should I give info that has no relevance to my kid receiving a bursary to some pencil pusher in another province? This is the "only thing" that rips me about ND, so your experience being great....good for you, ours wasn't. So elite and as great as it may be its not for our guy, I'm happy your kid is having such a great experience down there. Hope things turn out for him.


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08-13-2013, 12:40 AM
  #943
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I don't quite understand the assumption we know nothing about this. NAH seems to know exactly what it was about and I was directly quoting the web site. So you are right, let's drop it and move on... Clearly there is fund seeking. Sponsorship is sought out, not me who's saying it, they are and it appears to be in the enrolment package to. In fact NAH brings up more concerns. Why the inquisition into personal finances from a third party and who is the third party affiliated to? My problem where this went is in the assumption that I had not done research into this. Which I had. When I post something it's genuine. End of story. People keep commenting on how no funding is sought... Well it is already! In fact I actually am not done with it. I will speak with a current player from the school and get back to everyone. In detail.

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08-13-2013, 10:35 AM
  #944
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I love how much backlash there was when we were discussing the future structure of bantam hockey in the province, and now the same people doing the complaining at that time have spent 2 pages arguing over a tiny little sliver.

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08-13-2013, 03:20 PM
  #945
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Top 26 Under 16 Sask Team

See link: http://www.sha.sk.ca/images/athlete_...014/Top_26.pdf

I have seen all these kids play. Very good squad! But a bit of a surprise that there are no Regina kids as they were strong in the 98 age group!!

And again I say to ND, keep up the good work. Saskatchewan needs this kind of program not just for Bantam AA,AAA level hockey but for all levels of hockey. Gives the people of Saskatchewan an option to send their child to a top notch hockey development program, where education is prioritised in an all hockey all the time environment.

Great for the economy, great for our culture, great for the kids that attend.

No, I do not have a child who has ever attended this institution for various reasons, but I love the fact that if this program was a good fit for my childs life I have theat option available.

Nine kids that attended ND last year are in the top 26(35%).

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08-13-2013, 03:49 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by Superbowlfishca View Post
See link: http://www.sha.sk.ca/images/athlete_...014/Top_26.pdf

I have seen all these kids play. Very good squad! But a bit of a surprise that there are no Regina kids as they were strong in the 98 age group!!

And again I say to ND, keep up the good work. Saskatchewan needs this kind of program not just for Bantam AA,AAA level hockey but for all levels of hockey. Gives the people of Saskatchewan an option to send their child to a top notch hockey development program, where education is prioritised in an all hockey all the time environment.

Great for the economy, great for our culture, great for the kids that attend.

No, I do not have a child who has ever attended this institution for various reasons, but I love the fact that if this program was a good fit for my childs life I have theat option available.

Nine kids that attended ND last year are in the top 26(35%).
Also a bit surprised no Regina kids. I respectfully disagree that Notre Dame should take much credit for the kids on this list. Those kids would have been there anyways. Credit should be given to the coaches that truly developed those kids for the 9 years leading up to Notre Dame. Food for thought.

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08-13-2013, 04:33 PM
  #947
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I love how much backlash there was when we were discussing the future structure of bantam hockey in the province, and now the same people doing the complaining at that time have spent 2 pages arguing over a tiny little sliver.
Coming from you and your past posts I'll take that comment very lightly!

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08-13-2013, 05:32 PM
  #948
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Coming from you and your past posts I'll take that comment very lightly!
What was your problem with my last post?

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08-13-2013, 06:07 PM
  #949
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And again I say to ND, keep up the good work. Saskatchewan needs this kind of program not just for Bantam AA,AAA level hockey but for all levels of hockey.
Yorkton minor hockey might disagree. Seriously - I feel bad for them. After years of mediocrity, they're potentially on the cusp of a truly special season and their program gets decimated. With friends like these who needs enemies?

So sorry, but Saskatchewan doesn't need this program. Notre Dame has every right to accept or recruit any player they want, but let's not pretend they're doing Sask minor hockey any favors. If they were to disappear - as I suspect a number of programs down south might secretly wish - I'm fairly confident our minor hockey system would continue to chug along just fine.

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08-14-2013, 09:50 AM
  #950
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Dont Worry About Yorkton!!

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Yorkton minor hockey might disagree. Seriously - I feel bad for them. After years of mediocrity, they're potentially on the cusp of a truly special season and their program gets decimated. With friends like these who needs enemies?

So sorry, but Saskatchewan doesn't need this program. Notre Dame has every right to accept or recruit any player they want, but let's not pretend they're doing Sask minor hockey any favors. If they were to disappear - as I suspect a number of programs down south might secretly wish - I'm fairly confident our minor hockey system would continue to chug along just fine.
Yorkton will still be one of the top Bantam AA teams in the province this year. Where they hurt yes but not decimated. As I have seen many times in your posts you want more people to be allowed to play AA calibre hockey. Yorkton probably has 10 more kids in this age group that could play on any other AA team in SK. All this does is give 3 or four more kids a chance to play AA hockey.

I think its important that we don't become a society that feels what is good for all should be good for everybody. That is a communist way of thinking. People should have options. One of the beauties of the Canadian hockey mentality is we want a system that creates the best hockey players in the world. Hockey Canadas mandate is to foster this in our hockey system. Hockey academies foster this mentality.

The Americans are becoming one of the up and coming hockey powers of the world!
What kind of system do they have? Its all about the money and personally I have no problem with this because it is this mentality that in the end generates economic power which is good for all.

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