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The Offseason Thread V: Needs to End Edition

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08-15-2013, 04:21 PM
  #851
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I don't think you want to bring up an offensive oriented player's performance under Gernander as an argument against the player. I grant you, I was shocked that Kreider didn't pick up more points during that stretch simply due to physical domination - but Gernander's coaching is well established as ****ing poison to offensive creativity in young players.
Seems to be the prevailing wisdom towards every current and former coach associated with the New York Rangers organization. Its pervasive among the fanbase.

...nahhh, could never be the player's fault.

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08-15-2013, 04:29 PM
  #852
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Seems to be the prevailing wisdom towards every current and former coach associated with the New York Rangers organization. Its pervasive among the fanbase.

...nahhh, could never be the player's fault.
You know how they say it's easier to fire one coach than move 20 players?

It's also easier to blame Tom Renney than to accept that Petr Prucha and Jarkko Immonen aren't as good as they are in your head.

What creative young player has Gernander even coached?

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08-15-2013, 04:36 PM
  #853
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McD looking strong.

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08-15-2013, 05:13 PM
  #854
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He really is a truck. I don't know if Bjugstad is skinny or if McD is just huge.

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08-15-2013, 05:16 PM
  #855
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Then the amount that he failed was remarkable.

I have high hopes for Kreider, but this blame Torts for everything angle is getting more than mildly annoying. He had 1 goal and 1 assist in 19 AHL games right before the lockout ended. Clearly Torts didn't get a player firing on all cylinders.
Is this when he did something happened to his foot and, to the extent possible, he was supposed to play through it but not aggravate the injury?

Clearly he didn't fire on all cylinders because of Torts, not the other way around.

I remember he did get in the clear once and put a blur by a stunned Brodeur.

It is Kreider's responsibility to make that happen but that is within the context of Torts not being an arrogant egomaniac trying to influence undue control on the players, and as a result, handicapping CK's ability to get into such positions.

Only Nash, Callahan and to a lesser extent Gaborik had enough freedom to proceed with max creativity.

CK will still make mistakes, but will show his upside is worth it.

Watch, I called it.

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08-15-2013, 05:21 PM
  #856
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Is this when he did something happened to his foot and, to the extent possible, he was supposed to play through it but not aggravate the injury?

Clearly he didn't fire on all cylinders because of Torts, not the other way around.

I remember he did get in the clear once and put a blur by a stunned Brodeur.

It is Kreider's responsibility to make that happen but that is within the context of Torts not being an arrogant egomaniac trying to influence undue control on the players, and as a result, handicapping CK's ability to get into such positions.

Only Nash, Callahan and to a lesser extent Gaborik had enough freedom to proceed with max creativity.

CK will still make mistakes, but will show his upside is worth it.

Watch, I called it.
gabs had no freedom, he was thrown out of his natural position and forced to play with boyle because he sucked on the LW and torts was too stubborn to admit that his little experiment went horribly wrong

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08-15-2013, 05:24 PM
  #857
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He really is a truck. I don't know if Bjugstad is skinny or if McD is just huge.
... a V-neck... why!?

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08-15-2013, 05:31 PM
  #858
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He really is a truck. I don't know if Bjugstad is skinny or if McD is just huge.
I think he's just huge. He looks quite a bit bigger than everyone in that shot.

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08-15-2013, 05:50 PM
  #859
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holy hell he's looking ready for the season.

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08-15-2013, 05:51 PM
  #860
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Evander Kane is looking old.

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08-15-2013, 06:05 PM
  #861
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Evander Kane is looking old.
I see what you did there. I like it.

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08-15-2013, 06:31 PM
  #862
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Bjugstad standing there better than Brian Boyle by a country mile

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08-15-2013, 06:33 PM
  #863
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Bjugstad standing there better than Brian Boyle by a country mile
Boyle's there too, but he's already fallen.

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08-15-2013, 06:40 PM
  #864
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I love how Bernie thinks his take on the situation is fact.

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08-15-2013, 07:19 PM
  #865
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I love how Bernie thinks his take on the situation is fact.
Ive never seen somebody use so many words that contain so little substance.

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08-15-2013, 07:50 PM
  #866
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Is Bernie someone here?

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08-15-2013, 10:34 PM
  #867
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Is Bernie someone here?
It's the mamaluke who makes crazy proposals with paragraphs of reasonings that make no sense. bernmeister.

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08-15-2013, 10:52 PM
  #868
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It's the mamaluke who makes crazy proposals with paragraphs of reasonings that make no sense. bernmeister.
the fact that you called him a mamaluke should validate nominating you for funniest poster

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08-16-2013, 05:00 AM
  #869
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Ken Gernander has Glen Sather job security. Vancouver replaced Scott Arniel with Travis Green to coach their AHL team in Utica. VAN is no longer associated with the Chicago Wolves. Green was an assistant coach with Portland(WHL) and then filled in for Mike Johnson when the CHL suspended him for various violations. Besides Anisimov,which player had big offensive production? Anisimov played with PA Parenteau.

Getting back to Kreider. He scored two goal in this game. Where did he score them from?


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08-16-2013, 08:24 AM
  #870
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Getting back to Kreider. He scored two goal in this game. Where did he score them from?

I agree Kreider would be well-utilized in front of the net.

What I disagree about is why he was ineffective last year. Did Torts misuse him? Possibly. Did Kreider show a flat-out unwillingless to engage and get into those tough areas last season? Absolutely.

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08-16-2013, 09:34 AM
  #871
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Not going to blame Kreider's lack of success on his line mates. They didn't hurt him, but they were 100% incapable of helping him.

My beef is that you have this player, with his size, speed and skill set that feeds off his line mates, logic woudl dictate that to gett eh most out of this type of player, you put him with guys that are naturally intrested in distributing the puck.

Kreider is not a player that is going to generate offence for himself or those around him, what he can do is finish and playing with guys that have limited vision and ability is not going to help Kreider.

Now, Chris SHOULD have been more engaging physically and more decisive with the puck. Those are things that were within his control last season and while he was not put in position to get the most out of his skill set, he also gave the staff no reason to promote him to those spots.

All of that said, I think he played a timid conservative game so as to limit mistakes to try to remain in the NHL.

I think Torts style of teaching and his reward system of ice time played a factor in Kreider's play. I also believe that Torts refusal to leave lines intact to allow for chemistry hurt the team as well since there was no period of time for guys to get comfortable with each other. It's not a good apporach in a full season, it's worse in a shortened season.

Personally, I think playing Kreider with Boyle is a waste of the kids talents. It's not helping Boyle, it's not helping Kreider and it's not helping the Rangers.

Get him a play making center in Stepan or Brassard and leave him there for 15 games and see what happens.

when ever I draw up my lines combo's I'm always putting him on the top 2 lines. It's not a matter of him being deserving of that spot, rather it's a matter of his size and skill set being more condusive to blending with talented players.

I make the following comparisson.

There are guys out there that may score more points than Callahan, but are not better than Callahan.

I believe that Hagelin is a better player than Kreider, but I believe that when the kid fully feels comfortable in his monster frame, Kreider will be the better point producer.

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08-16-2013, 09:55 AM
  #872
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Kreider is a tough player for me to get a read on.

I think both points of view, coaching use versus the player himself are accurate. It was just a bad fit for a player who has had very little professional experience. Not just the coaching either, the shortened season, his playoffs last year setting expectations. Other than putting him with two top player, sort of like they did later in the playoffs with Nash and Stepan, there was little hope he was going to do anything. In order for him to get to that position, Torts would have to put up with his miscues in defensive coverage.

While I think Torts was slow to adjust, I don't think the team as a whole really came together last year. Not because of Torts specifically, although I don't think his style helped. I think it was more of a snowball effect. The shortened season, player turnover, Richards, it was almost too much for any coach to handle, but I think part of the reason Torts is gone is because he only was able to handle by using approaches he had used in the past, in full seasons, with less turnover... his "process" ran out of time and should have been adjusted for the actual time available.

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08-16-2013, 09:58 AM
  #873
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Wow, has there been a more coddled prospect on this board than Chris Kreider? Some posters are coming up excuses as if their lives depended on it.

We have a lot of homegrown players on our roster and guess what, none of them were given their spot. They forced their way onto the roster and into their current role.

In the time I've been following the Rangers closely (since 2009-10) the following players made the team.

Michael Del Zotto forced himself onto the team in camp when everyone was expecting him to go back to juniors for at least another year.

Derek Stepan was incredibly hyped, but was still expected to start the season in the AHL. Had an amazing camp and scored a hat trick in his début. Not from the first line mind you, but from the 3rd playing with Avery.

Michael Sauer was likely aided by his waiver status to secure a place on the roster, but when he got a chance to play he hit the ground running (IMO). Torts took a while to warm up to him and play him over Eminger, but he played himself up to the 2nd pairing where he was looking almost as good as McD. Such a shame he had to retire.

Ryan McDonagh did start the year in the AHL, got the call up and ran with it making Roszival redundant in the process.

Mats Zuccarello has bounced all over the place but has been worlds better than Kreider whenever he has gotten the chance to play for the big club. And that includes time with guys like Boyle.

Carl Hagelin was seen as a guy with 4th line upside at best. He impressed in Hartford and got a call up to play on the 4th line. He then progressed from there up on to the 1st line by being one of our best forwards night in night out. Ever since whatever line he has been playing on has mysteriously turned into the 1st line, almost regardless of linemates.

I'm sure it was the same for Callahan, Girardi, Dubinsky, Staal, Anisimov. Why should Kreider be excepted?

Now if he breaks out and becomes a legit top 6 winger I will be ecstatic, but giving him a top 6 spot without merit is idiotic.

If Hagelin and Callahan were healthy to start the season I wouldn't be at all surprised if Kreider began the season in the AHL. Now we need him to step in and I really hope he meshes well with AV's system and can be at least a serviceable top-9 winger.

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Old
08-16-2013, 10:21 AM
  #874
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree Kreider would be well-utilized in front of the net.

What I disagree about is why he was ineffective last year. Did Torts misuse him? Possibly. Did Kreider show a flat-out unwillingless to engage and get into those tough areas last season? Absolutely.
Kreider engaged physically when he was healthy. He took a shot off the foot in the AHL on the night the NHL lockout was settled. Saturday night/Sunday dawn lockout was settled. He was a scratch for the Sunday afternoon game. Everyone thought it was because of the lockout ending but he hurt his foot. He played with injury until he couldn't play anymore. He was much better after the foot injury. Scored all of the goals in the AHL. Kreider had some good games with the Rangers but it wasn't good enough with Tortorella. Even when Kreider scored the OT goal against Boston,Tortorella said he was happy for Chris but there are some things he needs to work on and he wasn't the only one who needed to work on things. However,those guys were playing when they needed more work on their game. On a team which needed any offense it could get,Kreider wasn't playing. Kreider scored buried a shot underneath the bar against Marty off a feed from Richards. His other regular season goal was off a nice passing play with Richards and DZ. In game 7 against the Caps,Kreider created the Asham goal using his speed to push the Caps back and allowing Asham to skate into the puck and rip it passed Holtby. On the OT goal,Kreider got position on the Bruin defender and deflected the Nash pass passed Rask. Put him with players who can complete a pass. In the Boston series,Kreider was using his size. Tortorella wanted Kreider to be Hagelin. It reminded me when Milbury tried to get Bertuzzi to be Clark Gillies and fight everyone. Milbury even had Gillies speak to Bertuzzi about playing tougher and meaner. That's his game. Bertuzzi escaped the Milbury craziness and had a great career in VAN before the Moore nonsense.

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08-16-2013, 10:30 AM
  #875
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In the time I've been following the Rangers closely (since 2009-10) the following players made the team.
A whole 4 years huh? Must be an expert.

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