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Habs trade Danny Kristo to NYR for Christian Thomas

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Old
08-16-2013, 02:05 PM
  #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cphabs View Post
"players like Thomas, Collberg, Gallagher, they may lack size, but make up for that with their skill, speed, or tenacity"

You wrote this... right?
Yes, they all have skill to make up for their lack of size, but I never said they are all = in skill, each have different intangibles. Collberg has likely the highest ceiling.

Again

Thomas, Collberg, Gallagher all have skill to make up for their lack of size, never did I say they were all top line players with overflowing skill, nor did I say they were all the same level of skill.

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08-16-2013, 02:12 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I doubt it, if Thomas is playing on this team with Briere, DD, Pleks, Gallagher and Gionta also playing, whether he plays well or not, there is nothing good that come from this. Other then the GM possibly getting fired and deservedly so, but if I'm wrong I'll be the first to eat crow.
Well continue reading the trade proposal thread and a couple of others and it may become clearer.

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08-16-2013, 02:51 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Well continue reading the trade proposal thread and a couple of others and it may become clearer.
If Bergevin does what you're proposing I'll look at things differently but I won't change my opinion about it that much. I don't think Gionta and DD will fetch that much in trade (even though I'm okay with it) but that's my thinking on the matter.

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08-16-2013, 02:55 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If Bergevin does what you're proposing I'll look at things differently but I won't change my opinion about it that much. I don't think Gionta and DD will fetch that much in trade (even though I'm okay with it) but that's my thinking on the matter.
in my opinion, if we were to trade Desharnais, you'd have to make him play in the best situations possible to maximize his value as quick as possible, then go ahead and sell high before he drops off.

The general feel though is that Management is giving him the benefit of the doubt and plan to keep him to start the season and re-evaluate.

Gionta will get you what a 2nd line scoring rental winger gets you, maybe a 2nd round pick. But then again if Murray fetches two 2nds I'm calling Pittsburgh haha

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08-16-2013, 07:59 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Well the fact that NYR's have Kristo is just desserts as far as I'm concerned. Getting Thomas in return must really burn both NYR's & Tor.'s fans Now I'm always interested in getting the best player in any trade but when the NYR's get a sampling of Kristo's act. I wouldn't want to be the scout's that asked for the trade.

Thomas will have about 97% of the posters on this thread eating their words in the near future, I for one won't be on that list. Thomas will play for the Habs and while I don't expect him to carry the team, I do expect a player that gives his all every shift and competes the h... out of every other player on the ice. Oh yeah and he will produce that's something I don't expect from Kristo at least on the positive side, Kristo will be a negative side player for his team in the NHL. While Thomas will always be on the positive side no matter who his competition, Christian plays the game like his life and his teammates lives depend upon it, and that my friend is the type of player I would always choose for the Habs.
yeah, put me in that 3 percent with you. He's going to get thicker and I think he'll be a fan darling, once the fan base gets over this phase where everything is about height and weight.

The key is of course getting the right mix, still I don't think MB traded for Stumpy Jr for any other reason than he thinks he can be part of the future.

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Old
08-16-2013, 11:16 PM
  #831
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Correct me if i'm wrong but Thomas reminds me of Theo Fleury. A small player with a great work ethic and very feisty who will score a lot.

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08-17-2013, 02:20 AM
  #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwang View Post
Scotty Bowman says "Hi".
Reality says "hi"

Bowman is the single greatest hockey mind.....ever imo.

Have you even listened to the guy in an interview. He is a hockey fanatic who has always been an innovator and adapted to changing sysytems as opposed to the dinosaurs whose steadfast adherence to their system and approach to leadership has always led to their demise.

Glen Sather is no different than buffoons like Cherry and Milbury when it comes to actual hockey knowledge. Sather does deserve credit for surrounding himself with quality people but his ineptitude has managed to undermine their expertise more often than not.

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Old
08-17-2013, 05:40 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
This is typical for Sather.....he really is clueless about the game. The single greatest benefactor in the history of the league of being in the right place at the right time.
I disagree.

You fail to understand the NYC market, Sather does a great job of fufilling that markets needs.

Also Kristo fufills the NYR's AHL needs so much better than Thomas does. kristo won't ever be an NHL star but he will be entertainment at the AHL level.

Sather is a lot of things, dumb to us Canadians is one of them, but stupid he isn't. He does his job well.

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08-17-2013, 05:45 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Reality says "hi"

Bowman is the single greatest hockey mind.....ever imo.

Have you even listened to the guy in an interview. He is a hockey fanatic who has always been an innovator and adapted to changing sysytems as opposed to the dinosaurs whose steadfast adherence to their system and approach to leadership has always led to their demise.

Glen Sather is no different than buffoons like Cherry and Milbury when it comes to actual hockey knowledge. Sather does deserve credit for surrounding himself with quality people but his ineptitude has managed to undermine their expertise more often than not.
This is where you don't understand the business side imo. Detroit economy's sucks balls, so they have to win. Boston has Harvard and so many other uppity upity ****, that the goon angle works for hockey there. It is all about understanding your market.

Just like Sather provides the glitz and glamour to NY. There is a reason he isn't fired. He does his job well for his market.

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08-17-2013, 06:09 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
This is where you don't understand the business side imo. Detroit economy's sucks balls, so they have to win. Boston has Harvard and so many other uppity upity ****, that the goon angle works for hockey there. It is all about understanding your market.

Just like Sather provides the glitz and glamour to NY. There is a reason he isn't fired. He does his job well for his market.
You haven't remotely made a point of any sort.

You think a troll like Sather who hides from the media brings glitz and glamour? That is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start....so I won't

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Old
08-17-2013, 06:15 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by CanadiensforLife View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong but Thomas reminds me of Theo Fleury. A small player with a great work ethic and very feisty who will score a lot.
Actually, more like Gionta.

Fleury did score 100+ points twice. At 21 years old, he scored 66 points in NHL and 104 points the following season (at 22).
He also had two other seasons with 80+ points.
Gionta on the other hand got 89 points at 25.

We need to wait at least three years to evaluate this trade properly.
Thomas is two years younger.

This year, Kristo might very well be in NHL.
He is older and bigger.
Also he did pretty well in NCAA in the last three seasons.

I am sure he was evaluated properly in NCAA and AHL.
The management team decided that he was not the best fit with our new team philosophy.

To be frank, I was hoping Kristo to be able to make it in NHL mid season. Hopes are not so easy to give up.

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Old
08-17-2013, 06:33 AM
  #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadiensforLife View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong but Thomas reminds me of Theo Fleury. A small player with a great work ethic and very feisty who will score a lot.
ok. youre wrong. I have corrected you.





(he cant "remind you of anyone yet since he hasnt played a season in the NHL yet)

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Old
08-17-2013, 06:38 AM
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I disagree.

You fail to understand the NYC market, Sather does a great job of fufilling that markets needs.

Also Kristo fufills the NYR's AHL needs so much better than Thomas does. kristo won't ever be an NHL star but he will be entertainment at the AHL level.

Sather is a lot of things, dumb to us Canadians is one of them, but stupid he isn't. He does his job well.
I have no idea what this means, especially wrt Kristo as an example of Sather knowing his market. I am one who thinks Sather should be giving half his cheque to Gretz, Mess, and Kurri.

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Old
08-17-2013, 07:16 AM
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I disagree.

You fail to understand the NYC market, Sather does a great job of fufilling that markets needs.

Also Kristo fufills the NYR's AHL needs so much better than Thomas does. kristo won't ever be an NHL star but he will be entertainment at the AHL level.

Sather is a lot of things, dumb to us Canadians is one of them, but stupid he isn't. He does his job well.
Hahahahahaha! Sather is absolutely useless.

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Old
08-17-2013, 07:28 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Reality says "hi"

Bowman is the single greatest hockey mind.....ever imo.

Have you even listened to the guy in an interview. He is a hockey fanatic who has always been an innovator and adapted to changing sysytems as opposed to the dinosaurs whose steadfast adherence to their system and approach to leadership has always led to their demise.

Glen Sather is no different than buffoons like Cherry and Milbury when it comes to actual hockey knowledge. Sather does deserve credit for surrounding himself with quality people but his ineptitude has managed to undermine their expertise more often than not.
My point was, just like Dryden, Bowman was over rated. Both of them were in the right place at the right time with an insanely talented team - just like Sather in his Edmonton days (which I assumed you were referring to). I watched the Habs of the 70's and a monkey could have coached them! Then, Bowman went on to an incredibly talented Detroit team. I'm not saying the man doesn't have smarts, but come on, how hard was it to coach the teams that he had?

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08-17-2013, 08:00 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Schwang View Post
My point was, just like Dryden, Bowman was over rated. Both of them were in the right place at the right time with an insanely talented team - just like Sather in his Edmonton days (which I assumed you were referring to). I watched the Habs of the 70's and a monkey could have coached them! Then, Bowman went on to an incredibly talented Detroit team. I'm not saying the man doesn't have smarts, but come on, how hard was it to coach the teams that he had?
I watched the Canadiens in the 70's as well and they were by far the most structured and organized team in the history of the league due solely to Bowman. If you didn't see this then you don't understand the strategic and tactical aspects of the game.

Bowman was using early variations of the trap long before the dead puck era and demanded that his centres be defensively responsible. This is what he brought to Detroit and he started with Yzerman. He has constantly evolved his system with the game as it grew which is why he is the ONLY relevant hockey mind from a strategic perspective that is still involved in the game 4 decades later.

Sather coached a ridiculously stacked team during a time when the NHL was a chaotic mess and nobody was employing effective systems. It was a free for all and the Oilers literally were a team that went out and played pond hockey every night. Sather was by all accounts just a figurehead behind the bench that simply let his players play. Bowman on the other hand was a legendary hard*** in Montreal and made his players toe the line and adhere to his system. Pierre Larouche was pushed out of Montreal for his refusal to play a team game and play within the system. Doesn't sound like the work of a "monkey" at all to me.

The reason that Detroit is so consistently good is due to the system that they play and the culture that was created by Bowman. Also....comparing the Red Wings talent level to the dynasties in Montreal and Edmonton is absolutely laughable. Bowman's success in Detroit just reaffirmed his absolute brilliance not to mention his fingerprints can be found on the current Champs who have won twice in four years now.

Sather is a sad relic who has been a laughing stock for a long time now.

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Old
08-17-2013, 08:11 AM
  #842
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I watched the Canadiens in the 70's as well and they were by far the most structured and organized team in the history of the league due solely to Bowman. If you didn't see this then you don't understand the strategic and tactical aspects of the game.

Bowman was using early variations of the trap long before the dead puck era and demanded that his centres be defensively responsible. This is what he brought to Detroit and he started with Yzerman. He has constantly evolved his system with the game as it grew which is why he is the ONLY relevant hockey mind from a strategic perspective that is still involved in the game 4 decades later.

Sather coached a ridiculously stacked team during a time when the NHL was a chaotic mess and nobody was employing effective systems. It was a free for all and the Oilers literally were a team that went out and played pond hockey every night. Sather was by all accounts just a figurehead behind the bench that simply let his players play. Bowman on the other hand was a legendary hard*** in Montreal and made his players toe the line and adhere to his system. Pierre Larouche was pushed out of Montreal for his refusal to play a team game and play within the system. Doesn't sound like the work of a "monkey" at all to me.

The reason that Detroit is so consistently good is due to the system that they play and the culture that was created by Bowman. Also....comparing the Red Wings talent level to the dynasties in Montreal and Edmonton is absolutely laughable. Bowman's success in Detroit just reaffirmed his absolute brilliance not to mention his fingerprints can be found on the current Champs who have won twice in four years now.

Sather is a sad relic who has been a laughing stock for a long time now.
What a breath of fresh air... I may start coming back and posting/reading more if you do as well. So much nicer to hear someone who knows what they're talking about instead of what seems like 10 year old kids fighting in elementary school.

Well said, and I very much agree!

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Old
08-17-2013, 09:54 AM
  #843
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Christian Thomas can be described in one word- intriguing! We don't know what we have here! Did we get fleeced or did we snag a future NHL 2nd line producing forward? The fact that he got a game call up in the NHL last year says a lot about what the NYR thought of the young player. Looking forward to seeing how he does at training camp.

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08-17-2013, 10:02 AM
  #844
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Still hate this trade. Why did this even happen? Did Kristo want to be traded or something?

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08-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
Christian Thomas can be described in one word- intriguing! We don't know what we have here! Did we get fleeced or did we snag a future NHL 2nd line producing forward? The fact that he got a game call up in the NHL last year says a lot about what the NYR thought of the young player. Looking forward to seeing how he does at training camp.
I'd rather describe him with another word: "Midget".

Thank you have a nice weekend

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Old
08-17-2013, 10:51 AM
  #846
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Still hate this trade. Why did this even happen? Did Kristo want to be traded or something?
On the surface, it seems the Habs wanted him gone...character issues...

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Old
08-17-2013, 11:30 AM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I watched the Canadiens in the 70's as well and they were by far the most structured and organized team in the history of the league due solely to Bowman. If you didn't see this then you don't understand the strategic and tactical aspects of the game.

Bowman was using early variations of the trap long before the dead puck era and demanded that his centres be defensively responsible. This is what he brought to Detroit and he started with Yzerman. He has constantly evolved his system with the game as it grew which is why he is the ONLY relevant hockey mind from a strategic perspective that is still involved in the game 4 decades later.

Sather coached a ridiculously stacked team during a time when the NHL was a chaotic mess and nobody was employing effective systems. It was a free for all and the Oilers literally were a team that went out and played pond hockey every night. Sather was by all accounts just a figurehead behind the bench that simply let his players play. Bowman on the other hand was a legendary hard*** in Montreal and made his players toe the line and adhere to his system. Pierre Larouche was pushed out of Montreal for his refusal to play a team game and play within the system. Doesn't sound like the work of a "monkey" at all to me.

The reason that Detroit is so consistently good is due to the system that they play and the culture that was created by Bowman. Also....comparing the Red Wings talent level to the dynasties in Montreal and Edmonton is absolutely laughable. Bowman's success in Detroit just reaffirmed his absolute brilliance not to mention his fingerprints can be found on the current Champs who have won twice in four years now.

Sather is a sad relic who has been a laughing stock for a long time now.
Sather's teams had structure, it's just a structure you're not familiar with and therefore doesn't exist.

Sather copied the style from the '70's WHA's Winnipeg Jets. The Jets got a whole bunch of players from Sweden and they brought their system with them.

Hull - Kurri
U. Nilsson - Gretzky
Hedberg - G. Anderson
Lars Erik Sjoberg - Paul Coffey
Willy Lindstrom - Willy Lindstrom
Kent Nilsson - Kent Nilsson

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08-17-2013, 11:44 AM
  #848
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Originally Posted by Schwang View Post
My point was, just like Dryden, Bowman was over rated. Both of them were in the right place at the right time with an insanely talented team - just like Sather in his Edmonton days (which I assumed you were referring to). I watched the Habs of the 70's and a monkey could have coached them! Then, Bowman went on to an incredibly talented Detroit team. I'm not saying the man doesn't have smarts, but come on, how hard was it to coach the teams that he had?
Bowman and Dryden, 6 cups in 8 yrs...overrated...now that's funny!!

Scotty must have refused you an autograph at some point...

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Old
08-17-2013, 12:24 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by CanadiensforLife View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong but Thomas reminds me of Theo Fleury. A small player with a great work ethic and very feisty who will score a lot.
I would say that Bgally reminds me of Theo, if anyone does in our system. Just my .02 and not a correction

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08-17-2013, 12:43 PM
  #850
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When we first traded for Thomas NO ONE knew who he was.. Fast forward 1.5 months and now everyone is an expert. Oh HF, never change.

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