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Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread III: "Hemsky Off The Market" - MacT Presser

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Old
08-17-2013, 10:11 AM
  #251
dem
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I would bet Alfie wanted to try a different team.. And his agent is doing what good agents do.. Take the heat.

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08-17-2013, 10:13 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
I think the team has to qualify him in order to go to arbitration
Either way ROR will make 5.5mil or more if he is going to suit up for them in 14-15.

But the kid did play pretty darn good for them last year, the 5.5mil isn't as bad as one thought originally.

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08-17-2013, 10:35 AM
  #253
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And the team will then take him to arbitration next summer and he'll sign for the same 5.5 the Avs where offering him with the security of a longer term. *shrug*
There's a lot of assumption and avs fan logic there.

Im sure he'd love to go to arbitration (with them) after the signing of Duchene and Landeskog, as well as many other new, high contracts for younger players. Including his own. At this point, he'd probably not only get the $6.5, but through arbitration, he'd get it on a one year deal and he'd walk for nothing soon after he takes a second one year deal the following season, due to being butt hurt by the organization. If you think your scenario is a real option, you better hope he has a terrible season.

Avs fan needs to take a seat in the press box and actually look at their situations from another perspective that doesnt have blind fandom written all over it. I swear you guys come up with these crazy strategies you're going to use on your players and then you sell the bill of goods to everyone else thinking they're just as blind, using the, "you dont watch him like us" angle.

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08-17-2013, 10:38 AM
  #254
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I think the team has to qualify him in order to go to arbitration
I thought this too, but apparently a team can opt to take a player to arbitration instead of giving him a QO. ROR will still be getting paid, but it may not be the insane amount his QO would be.

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08-17-2013, 10:58 AM
  #255
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Murray totally tried to circumvent the cap. Clearly stated that there was an extra year at 1 mil that both sides believed wouldn't matter cuz he wouldn't play

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08-17-2013, 11:07 AM
  #256
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Murray totally tried to circumvent the cap. Clearly stated that there was an extra year at 1 mil that both sides believed wouldn't matter cuz he wouldn't play
I wonder if NJ now goes to arbitration and gets their pick and money back?

I just don't understand how the league doesn't at the very least say they are investigating? Legally I'd have to think they would've have to.

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08-17-2013, 11:24 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
There's a lot of assumption and avs fan logic there.

Im sure he'd love to go to arbitration (with them) after the signing of Duchene and Landeskog, as well as many other new, high contracts for younger players. Including his own. At this point, he'd probably not only get the $6.5, but through arbitration, he'd get it on a one year deal and he'd walk for nothing soon after he takes a second one year deal the following season, due to being butt hurt by the organization. If you think your scenario is a real option, you better hope he has a terrible season.

Avs fan needs to take a seat in the press box and actually look at their situations from another perspective that doesnt have blind fandom written all over it. I swear you guys come up with these crazy strategies you're going to use on your players and then you sell the bill of goods to everyone else thinking they're just as blind, using the, "you dont watch him like us" angle.
Duchene out produces O'Reilly heavily, I hope the arbitrator looks at Duchene's contract to set O'Reilly's cause if that happens there's no way Ryan can get even close to the 6.5 his QO is as he'd need to be well under Duchene's 6 per and much closer to Landy's 5.57 per extension as Ryan and Landy have similar out put over the past two year despite Ryan being older. I love Ryan but looking around the league at young stars who make 6+, they all out produce him by a good bit and #s are ultimately one of the key things arbitratpr's look at.

Of course this isn't the way I want things to happen, not do I expect it to get that far because I don't expect Ryan to demand the 6.5 his QO would be at if he's offered the long term deal he was looking for last year. But if he does decide to go ugly with it the league mechanism's in place favor the Avs. Personally I think something like 25 over 5 is right around where they'll settle, buys the same 3 years of UFA that they got from Landy and is .5 per bump over what he was looking for last year before feaster happened. And provided Ryan doesn't bomb completely on Duchene's wing I don't think it's unreasonable for him to want to stick around now that we have new management.

Frankly I don't see where I'm making any more assumptions than people who assume Ryan's gunna flip his **** if he doesn't get offered a long term deal at the 6.5 his QO will be at *shrug*

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08-17-2013, 11:26 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Either way ROR will make 5.5mil or more if he is going to suit up for them in 14-15.

But the kid did play pretty darn good for them last year, the 5.5mil isn't as bad as one thought originally.
Under the rules of the new CBA a team can one time elect to go to arbitration in lieu of a QO with a player. But yeah that could only be dropped down to around 5.5 which I'm more than happy with the team paying him as he's totally worth that.

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08-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #259
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Under the rules of the new CBA a team can one time elect to go to arbitration in lieu of a QO with a player. But yeah that could only be dropped down to around 5.5 which I'm more than happy with the team paying him as he's totally worth that.
The problem remains, under this assumption, and let's even assume its 20% off the qualifying offer (I think it's off his prior year salary), can you imagine how angry RORs camp will be. He'll then just play out his two arbitration rulings and walk. You don't want that happening. If he escalates his play, he's gonba get over $6. Even on a long term deal.

Whatever the case, you don't take one of your best players to a reduction arbitration.

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08-17-2013, 12:42 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
The problem remains, under this assumption, and let's even assume its 20% off the qualifying offer (I think it's off his prior year salary), can you imagine how angry RORs camp will be. He'll then just play out his two arbitration rulings and walk. You don't want that happening. If he escalates his play, he's gonba get over $6. Even on a long term deal.

Whatever the case, you don't take one of your best players to a reduction arbitration.
Of course not, but that's a worst case scenario the way Radar deciding that he's suddenly worth 1.5 more per season than he wanted on a long term deal last year just because Feaster threw him an OS that bumped his QO to that. As I said, what I consider far more likely is an extension around 5.5 per for 5 years if O'Reilly's on board with his role on this team going forward, and if he isn't I think he takes a deal around that with whatever team we trade him to at the deadline.

Either way that's something we'll find out this year, like a lot of things with this team. That's why it's an exciting time, there's a lot of good things that could well happen but there's a lot of question marks, so far Roy and Sakic have done a great job running the team so for now they have some benefit of the doubt to make the right decisions the way they have been.

I just don't think there's much chance radar isn't playing with an extension around 25 over 5 next year, whether it's with the avs or somebody else. Him taking his QO with us is thus something I consider very unlikely to happen, but if the team finds itself in that position with the O'Reilly camp being unrealistically obstinent, we have the option of arbitration to prevent it from getting too absurd, although I don't think it ever even gets close to that.

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Old
08-17-2013, 12:48 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
The problem remains, under this assumption, and let's even assume its 20% off the qualifying offer (I think it's off his prior year salary), can you imagine how angry RORs camp will be. He'll then just play out his two arbitration rulings and walk. You don't want that happening. If he escalates his play, he's gonba get over $6. Even on a long term deal.

Whatever the case, you don't take one of your best players to a reduction arbitration.
What do you mean 2? Team has one and players have unlimited as RFA do they not?

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08-17-2013, 02:07 PM
  #262
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What do you mean 2? Team has one and players have unlimited as RFA do they not?
He'd be a UFA after the second one

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08-17-2013, 02:09 PM
  #263
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Of course not, but that's a worst case scenario the way Radar deciding that he's suddenly worth 1.5 more per season than he wanted on a long term deal last year just because Feaster threw him an OS that bumped his QO to that. As I said, what I consider far more likely is an extension around 5.5 per for 5 years if O'Reilly's on board with his role on this team going forward, and if he isn't I think he takes a deal around that with whatever team we trade him to at the deadline.

Either way that's something we'll find out this year, like a lot of things with this team. That's why it's an exciting time, there's a lot of good things that could well happen but there's a lot of question marks, so far Roy and Sakic have done a great job running the team so for now they have some benefit of the doubt to make the right decisions the way they have been.

I just don't think there's much chance radar isn't playing with an extension around 25 over 5 next year, whether it's with the avs or somebody else. Him taking his QO with us is thus something I consider very unlikely to happen, but if the team finds itself in that position with the O'Reilly camp being unrealistically obstinent, we have the option of arbitration to prevent it from getting too absurd, although I don't think it ever even gets close to that.
Absolutely. If they don't come to an agreement though a lot of Av fans just seem to think they'll take him to arbitration and reduce him like it's no big deal. It will be a major big deal to O'Reilly.

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08-17-2013, 02:10 PM
  #264
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He'd be a UFA after the second one
Gotcha

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Old
08-17-2013, 02:23 PM
  #265
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Honestly I hope Ryan O'Reilly gets 6 mil per year. It'd be hilarious.

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08-17-2013, 07:42 PM
  #266
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I would bet Alfie wanted to try a different team.. And his agent is doing what good agents do.. Take the heat.
Ive been involved in several types of negotiations, contracts, etc... Not once during Alfie's odd news conf did I think he was somehow stretching the truth, lying or being nothing but honest. It all sounds to normal on what teams tell guys. That said, maybe, just maybe the Sens really did take him for granted. I blame them on that. I also dont blame them because at some point teams need to move on... Internally they can play dumb and get away with it. Im sure he'll be great in Detroit this season and everyone will be ripping the Sens. They do now have Ryan though and that might not have happened without Alfie leaving...

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08-19-2013, 11:35 AM
  #267
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Non conventional proposals :

Getting away from RNH as out #1C, Smid as our #1D and Hemsky being garbage.

Smid for R'O Reilly
Eberle for A.Larsson
Nuge for A.Pieterangelo


Hall-Gagner-Yakupov
Perron-ROR-Hemsky

Ference-AP
Petry-Schultz
Klefbom-Larsson

Looks better if it was Petry instead of Smid.

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Old
08-19-2013, 11:50 AM
  #268
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Anyone else think Alfy is coming across as a big baby in this whole situation? I also think Alfy is no where near a 5.5m dollar player.

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Old
08-19-2013, 11:59 AM
  #269
joestevens29
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Anyone else think Alfy is coming across as a big baby in this whole situation? I also think Alfy is no where near a 5.5m dollar player.
Nope.

And he's getting 3.5 plus 2mil in bonuses, not exactly a bad deal for Detroit.

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Old
08-19-2013, 03:14 PM
  #270
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Anyone else think Alfy is coming across as a big baby in this whole situation? I also think Alfy is no where near a 5.5m dollar player.
Just you apparently.

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Old
08-19-2013, 03:27 PM
  #271
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Anyone else think Alfy is coming across as a big baby in this whole situation? I also think Alfy is no where near a 5.5m dollar player.
The dude has earned $58 million with the Sens. Yeah I think he should just shut the bleep up. Meanwhile the owner has lost damn near $100 million on the Sens.

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08-19-2013, 03:37 PM
  #272
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Meanwhile the owner has lost damn near $100 million on the Sens.
Yeah, sure he has.

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08-20-2013, 09:30 AM
  #273
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The dude has earned $58 million with the Sens. Yeah I think he should just shut the bleep up. Meanwhile the owner has lost damn near $100 million on the Sens.
The dude took below market value wages and then when he asked for a real contract they pissed on him. The owner is making money hand over fist and is using "creative accounting" to make people feel sorry for him. Aside from Ottawa homers I'm not aware of anyone who actually believes the team is losing money.

You dick around with your players and they leave. Oiler fans should know this by now, and Ottawa fans are realising it as well.

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Old
08-20-2013, 10:28 AM
  #274
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The dude has earned $58 million with the Sens. Yeah I think he should just shut the bleep up. Meanwhile the owner has lost damn near $100 million on the Sens.
He's a career 0.94 point per game player who consistently signed WAY below-market value contracts with the Sens while linemates like Spezza and Heatley were signed for $7M+...

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Old
08-20-2013, 10:55 AM
  #275
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I don't blame him for wanting more $$$ but he hasn't been a ppg player for the past few years. If I was a budget-conscious team, I would be weary about giving him too much.

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