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The Offseason Thread V: Needs to End Edition

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Old
08-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #901
pld459666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I don't see how that was Torts's fault.

As far as their styles of play, I don't see what your trying to suggest.

Chasing down pucks and zipping into dirty areas isn't a skill. Kreider has the wheels to zip around the ice. He also has the body-frame to get into those dirty areas, assuming he's willing.

Hagelin just skates his ass off every shift. Offensively and defensively. That's just hustle. Hard work. Kreider's capable of that. Every player is, to a certain degree.
Guys that are 230 don't go zipping around the ice like guys that are 185

To think that they can or even should is silly.

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08-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I again don't recant what was said. Time will ultimately tell.
Clearly CK is way >>>>>>>>>>>> more physically gifted that DS, only better at experience, hockey smarts, and to certain degree vision for passing. Once the shackles are off and CK catches up, eventually that comment by me will ring true.

We shall see.
It's too bad physical gifts aren't nearly as important as the mental ones.

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Old
08-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its not rocket science. Tortorella, as with most coaches, are going to give more leeway when a mistake is made out of aggression. You say you think Kreider was tentative, but not unwilling to engage. Whats the difference? I also dont think Brooks Orpik knocking him into next week helped matters much either.

Bottom line is that Kreider played most of the season like he had a carton of eggs in his hockey pants. Thats unacceptable, period.
This is a very fair and accurate statement

I think we are going to see a different player this season.

not expecting 30/30, but I think we are going to see a more engaged player.

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08-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #904
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I don't think Kreider should be expected to become Hagelin, or even that's what Torts wanted. He wanted him to move his damn feet. I don't think it's an unreasonable request.

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Old
08-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I don't think Kreider should be expected to become Hagelin, or even that's what Torts wanted. He wanted him to move his damn feet. I don't think it's an unreasonable request.
then we also have to understand that big players often look like they are not moving or exerting the same type of effort than smaller guys.

It's always been an optical illusion.

A fast big man will never look like a fast small man.

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08-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #906
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I'm not worried about Kreider's work rate, I'm worried about his positioning and hockey sense, both offensively and defensively.

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Old
08-16-2013, 12:57 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
then we also have to understand that big players often look like they are not moving or exerting the same type of effort than smaller guys.

It's always been an optical illusion.

A fast big man will never look like a fast small man.


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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I'm not worried about Kreider's work rate, I'm worried about his positioning and hockey sense, both offensively and defensively.
Me too. I don't think his inability to move his feet is a reflection of his work rate, but rather him being unsure of his next step.

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08-16-2013, 01:54 PM
  #908
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Glen Sather is attending an Edmonton Oil Kings alumni golf tournament today

https://twitter.com/EdmOilKings/stat...848320/photo/1

He looks like Judge Smails from Caddyshack

https://twitter.com/EdmOilKings/stat...411776/photo/1

He is wearing a name tag.

Quote:
Sather on his health: "How do I look? ... I feel great too. ... Luckily I was one of those guys who got checked every 6 months"
https://twitter.com/EdmOilKings/stat...45053380739073

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08-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
then we also have to understand that big players often look like they are not moving or exerting the same type of effort than smaller guys.

It's always been an optical illusion.

A fast big man will never look like a fast small man.
That's not true, when Kreider skates hard, he flies; there is a very noticeable difference. He looked tentative for most of the season; now you could argue to death whether that was his or Torts fault, or both.

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08-16-2013, 03:24 PM
  #910
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Rangers management wasn't happy how Tortorella used Kreider either.

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Old
08-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
There are people here who brag about watching the game for 40 years who I wouldn't trust more than some 2012 bandwagon fans.

I think the only constant is that we all overstate our own grasp of the game.
Nooope.

I am a pretty critical dude, but when it comes to my #fitness, #looks and #grasp of the game I am very confident.

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Old
08-16-2013, 03:30 PM
  #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Glen Sather is attending an Edmonton Oil Kings alumni golf tournament today

https://twitter.com/EdmOilKings/stat...848320/photo/1

He looks like Judge Smails from Caddyshack

https://twitter.com/EdmOilKings/stat...411776/photo/1

He is wearing a name tag.

https://twitter.com/EdmOilKings/stat...45053380739073
On a serious note, Slats is looking pretty healthy. Nice to see!

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Old
08-16-2013, 05:41 PM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
It's too bad physical gifts aren't nearly as important as the mental ones.
Fair enough.
After reasonably enough time for CK to catch up to Stepan's experience, we'll see how it is.

CK probably gets smart enough.
His limited pre-NHL track record is he always succeeds with enough time.
Granted, there he was just being ridiculously more athletic than his opposition in college, and has had to learn certain techniques.

But like I said, he will improve.
For the most part, Stepan can not learn to be significantly faster, shoot significantly harder, etc.

Again, we will see.

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Old
08-16-2013, 05:52 PM
  #914
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Didn't Tortorella say that kreider still wasnt ready and wanted him to spend more time in the ahl to work on his game after kreider got called up a second time?
to me that sounds like it was management trying to force a player that wasnt ready into the lineup.

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Old
08-16-2013, 05:56 PM
  #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
...
Quote:
As usual, I see a lot of words but no valid facts that contradict what I said.
Attempting to gloss over that my words did speak as to valid fact will not enable you to misrepresent the actual facts.


Quote:
But do me a favor
Don't tempt me.

Quote:
and explain to me why guys like Hagelin succeeded under Torts, yet CK didn't.
Each is different. Hags case is he was given time to develop experience. He was not berated like the golden boy was cause Torts is an egomaniac.

Quote:
Hagelin's been flying all over the ice since his debut. Are you telling me that Torts, without reason, allowed a young guy like Hagelin to use his attributes but not CK?
Yes that is what I am telling you, but not that it was without a reason.
CK was/is golden boy. Hags, not quite.
CK = threat to Torts, like any other big guy (evidence in point: Gaborik)
Hags, again, not so much, more under the radar.

Torts wanted success but ONLY his way, with this being his team.
He would break anyone/thing that was outside his strict modus operandi.

C'mon, you can admit it, confession is good for the soul, I was right about this, you can say it. The universe will not end if you do.

Quote:
lolwut?



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Old
08-16-2013, 06:24 PM
  #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanrickBrassardi View Post
Didn't Tortorella say that kreider still wasnt ready and wanted him to spend more time in the ahl to work on his game after kreider got called up a second time?
to me that sounds like it was management trying to force a player that wasnt ready into the lineup.
I think he said it like a day before he was called back up. It was a wut moment

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Old
08-16-2013, 10:11 PM
  #917
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Each is different. Hags case is he was given time to develop experience. He was not berated like the golden boy was cause Torts is an egomaniac.
Nonsense. Both players were given an opportunity. One capitalized with his opportunity, the other didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Yes that is what I am telling you, but not that it was without a reason.
CK was/is golden boy. Hags, not quite.
CK = threat to Torts, like any other big guy (evidence in point: Gaborik)
Hags, again, not so much, more under the radar.
Where do you come up with this garbage? CK is a golden boy? A threat to Torts? What kind of delusional world do you live in? What a ridiculous thing to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Torts wanted success but ONLY his way, with this being his team.
He would break anyone/thing that was outside his strict modus operandi.


Torts would have accepted success any way he could. Brassard isn't your typical "Torts kind of guy", and he had plenty of success here in NY since we acquired him. MZA isn't either, but he too had a successful impact on his team. Gaborik had 2 40G seasons under Torts.

Stop making excuses for CK. Admit you overhyped him because of his nice youtube highlight reel, and, as usual, you're Peter Griffin in this thread just like every other thread you post in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPD View Post
you're Peter Griffin in EVERY SINGLE THREAD YOU POST IN.

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08-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #918
Fitzy
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We're approaching threadban territory for perpetual flaming and spamming.

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Old
08-17-2013, 12:42 PM
  #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Nonsense. Both players were given an opportunity. One capitalized with his opportunity, the other didn't.



Where do you come up with this garbage? CK is a golden boy? A threat to Torts? What kind of delusional world do you live in? What a ridiculous thing to say.





Torts would have accepted success any way he could. Brassard isn't your typical "Torts kind of guy", and he had plenty of success here in NY since we acquired him. MZA isn't either, but he too had a successful impact on his team. Gaborik had 2 40G seasons under Torts.

Stop making excuses for CK. Admit you overhyped him because of his nice youtube highlight reel, and, as usual, you're Peter Griffin in this thread just like every other thread you post in.
Those seasons had his goals come extremely streaky, especially in 2012.
Brass and Zucc have success because they have more hockey IQ than Kreider and have both seen more NHL and experience time, so yes, they weren't Tort guys but they got it done because they played their game and worked at it and for it. So I agree with you here about Kreider not working for it etc. And junk.

However, at least around here, CK is treated like a golden boy by a lot of people. Maybe not so much anymore, but was a lot. Lot of people overhyped and over-hoped so yeah.

Also don't see why putting down posters is the way to go when debating

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Old
08-17-2013, 01:31 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Those seasons had his goals come extremely streaky, especially in 2012.
What does streakiness have to do with anything? Fact is, Gaborik's not your typical Torts kind of guy, yet he posted impressive offensive numbers.

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08-17-2013, 03:02 PM
  #921
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What does streakiness have to do with anything? Fact is, Gaborik's not your typical Torts kind of guy, yet he posted impressive offensive numbers.
Consistent>Streaky. It'd be a lot more impressive if he kept a steady pace instead of scoring 4 goals in a game and then disappearing for 11.

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08-17-2013, 03:08 PM
  #922
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Consistent>Streaky. It'd be a lot more impressive if he kept a steady pace instead of scoring 4 goals in a game and then disappearing for 11.
What does his streakiness have to do with CK being handcuffed by Torts's system? I'm still not understanding what point you're trying to prove.

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08-17-2013, 03:20 PM
  #923
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What does his streakiness have to do with CK being handcuffed by Torts's system? I'm still not understanding what point you're trying to prove.
No. Don't try to do that. What you did was list players that aren't Tortorella guys. And you used Marian. I'm just letting you know that the consistent play that delivered the goods wasn't there a whole lot.

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08-17-2013, 03:49 PM
  #924
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No. Don't try to do that. What you did was list players that aren't Tortorella guys. And you used Marian. I'm just letting you know that the consistent play that delivered the goods wasn't there a whole lot.
Re-read how that response came to fruition because it literally has absolutely nothing to do with what you're trying to highlight.

We're talking about the sun and you're trying to make a point about black holes.

Regardless, most goal scorers in the league score in bunches, but it still doesn't dispute the fact that Gaborik had multiple 40G season's under a coach that supposedly held players back that didn't fit his style of play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Torts wanted success but ONLY his way, with this being his team.
He would break anyone/thing that was outside his strict modus operandi.

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Old
08-17-2013, 06:27 PM
  #925
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Henrik Lundqvist ✔ @HLundqvist30

Spend the afternoon packing.
Tomorrow it's time to fly back to New York. I miss that place..

Alright Hank is coming back, Lets go Slats/Gorton,, get to working on the extension and lock up the cornerstone of this franchise.

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