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Old
08-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #151
bucks_oil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srsly View Post
I love Kadri as much as the next Leafs fan but I can't say that he's better than RNH while maintaining a straight face.

The fact of the matter is that Kadri was only really noticable for around half of a shortened season and his value isn't anywhere near what it could be with another strong showing. It's also worth noting that he hasn't been signed yet, which makes his value even less than it would have been.

I don't see the Oilers moving their number one center. With all their offensive potential I think we sometimes forget their scouts obsession with offensive wingers and lack of depth down the middle. I'd dare say that overall they're not in a much stronger position than the Leafs in that area.

The only trade I could see with one of the fab five involved would be something centered around Eberle and Rielly if a deal can't be negotiated with Kessel.

edit: before all the "lols Ebs is worth wai moar than Rielly" comments I want to note that the Leafs would obviously be adding. It should go without saying...
This is a fair assessment.

In short, not only is RNH the best asset in the deal, it would be dealing from a position of weakness (TopC) to shore up a position of strength (middle Dmen).

On top of that we add salary.

And there are oiler fans who would make a legitimate argument that in addition to trading the best asset in the deal (RNH vs Kadri) we are also losing out in the Dman comparison (Petry vs Franson and Schultz vs Liles). I don't happen to agree that Petry is better than Franson, but their are advanced stats guys out there that really like Petry's metrics this year. I'll have to watch closer in 2013.

As for Eberle for Reilly (with Toronto adding a bit) it could easily have happened if we didn't sign Schultz.... as it stands now, I see EDM going with Klefbom/Nurse as their future #2, who will give up offense in favor of defense, but be a better match for the more one-dimensional (relative to Reilly's upside potential) J Schultz.

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Old
08-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Alerion View Post
Toronto's D is weak enough without trading away their two best PMDs. Gagner is a decent player but he's not a #1C and therefore I can't see any interest in this from the Leafs.
If the Leafs are holding out for a #1C to be traded, they're going to be waiting a long long time.

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Old
08-17-2013, 11:57 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by RipsADrive View Post
I'm starting to suspect you're being intentionally obtuse.

No one is saying that RNH is Gretzky. The point is that they play the same style game. Since you didn't like the Gretzky example I brought up the Sedins who were both able to win the Art Ross trophy (in the modern, faster game) without having an explosive side to their game. Sound familiar?

If you don't think that RNH has what it takes to make it as a star in this the league that's fine and you're entitled to your opinion. If you think that he won't make it because he plays a finesse game then I'm going to keep arguing the point. I can't change your mind on a player but I can show why your reasoning on him is wrong.
This is getting tiresome.

For the few things he does well, passing, hockey sense, vision, there are many things he cannot do that require physical talent.

I'm not saying he can't be a good player or even a great player i'm just saying as of "right now" he's being forced to play one style which is a quiet finesse game because he literally can't do anything else against NHL competition. He just not gifted physically enough to be a multidimensional threat.

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Old
08-17-2013, 12:11 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by OverWatch View Post
This is getting tiresome.

For the few things he does well, passing, hockey sense, vision, there are many things he cannot do that require physical talent.

I'm not saying he can't be a good player or even a great player i'm just saying as of "right now" he's being forced to play one style which is a quiet finesse game because he literally can't do anything else against NHL competition. He just not gifted physically enough to be a multidimensional threat.
And I'm saying that's not a bad thing!

That's the point I'm arguing. Plenty of players have and do have a great amount of success playing a solely finesse style of game.

It's like criticizing Kane for not being a physical player. Sure that may be true but it's not the type of game he needs to play to be effective.

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Old
08-17-2013, 12:46 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverWatch View Post
This is getting tiresome.

For the few things he does well, passing, hockey sense, vision, there are many things he cannot do that require physical talent.

I'm not saying he can't be a good player or even a great player i'm just saying as of "right now" [b]he's being forced to play one style which is a quiet finesse game because he literally can't do anything else[b] against NHL competition. He just not gifted physically enough to be a multidimensional threat.
Except, that just isn't true... He's never been forced off his game by anyone. Hell, he's the guy who gets hit, takes the number, and goes and hits the guy back later. He might not be Lucic, but your still talking out your ass

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Old
08-17-2013, 01:14 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by OverWatch View Post
This is getting tiresome.

For the few things he does well, passing, hockey sense, vision, there are many things he cannot do that require physical talent.

I'm not saying he can't be a good player or even a great player i'm just saying as of "right now" he's being forced to play one style which is a quiet finesse game because he literally can't do anything else against NHL competition. He just not gifted physically enough to be a multidimensional threat.

That's absolutely ridiculous. His passing, vision and puck distribution is what he does best. He doesn't do it because he "has" to. That's like saying ovechkin scores all those goals because he can't do anything else. Or Reimer "has" to drop and block because he can't do anything else.

Guys play to their strengths. Get over it.

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Old
08-17-2013, 01:22 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Vesa Awesaka View Post
i think this trade makes the oilers worse long term imo. JML, Cody Franson and Kulemin probably wouldnt be in the good for the oilers in the future. All this really does is increase their cap. Kadri is the only piece really worth anything and at most its a lateral move for a top 6 forward well what the Oilers really need our top 4 dmen and big physical two way bottom sixers.
Cody Franson was 8th in NHL scoring and top 10 for hits last season...he would be top 4 on a lot of teams, maybe top 2 on Edmonton.

Kadri is a downgrade on RNH, but I think it will be quite close in 3 years. Kadri also loves to hit.

Keep calling our players valueless, but those 2 guys got us into the playoffs, while Edmonton picked top 10 again.

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Old
08-17-2013, 01:27 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
To me the deal should be:

To Toronto: Sam Gagner, Jeff Petry, 2014 2nd
To Edmonton: Nazem Kadri, Jake Gardiner, Cody Franson
Funniest post I've read all day.

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Old
08-17-2013, 01:27 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by DoubleDouble View Post
Cody Franson was 8th in NHL scoring and top 10 for hits last season...he would be top 4 on a lot of teams, maybe top 2 on Edmonton.

Kadri is a downgrade on RNH, but I think it will be quite close in 3 years. Kadri also loves to hit.

Keep calling our players valueless, but those 2 guys got us into the playoffs, while Edmonton picked top 10 again.
This is true!

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Old
08-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDouble View Post
Cody Franson was 8th in NHL scoring and top 10 for hits last season...he would be top 4 on a lot of teams, maybe top 2 on Edmonton.

Kadri is a downgrade on RNH, but I think it will be quite close in 3 years. Kadri also loves to hit.

Keep calling our players valueless, but those 2 guys got us into the playoffs, while Edmonton picked top 10 again.
No one called them useless. They just aren't worth losing RNH. If the situation was reversed, you wouldn't be interested in trading RNH+ for a Kadri/Franson based package either.

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Old
08-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #161
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Quote:
To me the deal should be:

To Toronto: Sam Gagner, Jeff Petry, 2014 2nd
To Edmonton: Nazem Kadri, Jake Gardiner, Cody Franson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Funniest post I've read all day.
Hadn't seen this beauty but nearly spit out my cereal upon realization....just awful....

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Old
08-17-2013, 02:12 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
I see Rnh leaving and No one I like coming back. no thanks
The players coming back are instantly the best players in your line up. As a leaf fan I wouldnt give up our future for spare parts so I don't like this trade. Keep your garbage

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Old
08-17-2013, 02:23 PM
  #163
RipsADrive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
The players coming back are instantly the best players in your line up. As a leaf fan I wouldnt give up our future for spare parts so I don't like this trade. Keep your garbage


And the prize for rosiest glasses goes to....

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Old
08-17-2013, 02:37 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
The players coming back are instantly the best players in your line up. As a leaf fan I wouldnt give up our future for spare parts so I don't like this trade. Keep your garbage
Wtf is this? There's been a lot of homerism from both sides in this thread but we have a winner.

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Old
08-17-2013, 03:31 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
The players coming back are instantly the best players in your line up. As a leaf fan I wouldnt give up our future for spare parts so I don't like this trade. Keep your garbage
I laughed.

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Old
08-17-2013, 09:39 PM
  #166
Alerion
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
If the Leafs are holding out for a #1C to be traded, they're going to be waiting a long long time.
Correct. It's not that Nonis is holding out for one via trade, it's just that it doesn't make sense to acquire a #2C in Gagner when he already has Bozak or Kadri filling that role.

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Old
08-17-2013, 10:13 PM
  #167
tempest2i
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Originally Posted by Alerion View Post
Correct. It's not that Nonis is holding out for one via trade, it's just that it doesn't make sense to acquire a #2C in Gagner when he already has Bozak or Kadri filling that role.
I wasn't suggesting that the Leafs trade for Gagner to replace Bozak or Kadri. The only way teams seem to get #1C's these days is through the draft. If any team is looking for a #1C, the best option they have is likely to draft and develop one.

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Old
08-17-2013, 10:56 PM
  #168
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This thread makes me want to smash my head through a door.

My fellow oiler fans and I are well aware we have been a non playoff team for quite some time. Longest drought in the league, understandable we take some flack. Kadri is a very talented young player that had a solid (shortened) season.

However. Some of the Leafs fans in here (not all, some of you are very reasonable) Please understand how shrill and childish you sound by 1) trumpeting one first round exit in a decade of mediocrity like its some big accomplishment, and 2) slamming RNH having only ever looked at his NHL.com bio. He's skinny - not small. Doesn't play small either, YouTube his Brendan Morrow hit.. Above average shot when healthy, very solid defensively, all - world passer and vision. He could sure stand to eat a few sandwiches but he has a very wiry build and likely won't ever play at over 190 lb. I actually really like Kadri and anyone saying he isn't a very valuable doesn't know what they're talking about, but RNH is more valuable. Period. There are 4 or 5 potential Nazem Kadri's available every draft, but a guy that sees the game and can then execute in creating a play like RNH can is very rare indeed.

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Old
08-17-2013, 10:59 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by BudMaster17 View Post
The players coming back are instantly the best players in your line up. As a leaf fan I wouldnt give up our future for spare parts so I don't like this trade. Keep your garbage
I totally agree with this.... if we traded Rnh, Hall, Ebs, Yak and Schultz one of those guys might be our best player. Might. Otherwise not so much

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Old
08-18-2013, 12:12 AM
  #170
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This thread has gone too far off the rails. Closed.

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