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08-17-2013, 02:30 PM
  #301
19 in a row
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJGooch View Post
Gary Bettman could show up at Bruce Ratner's house every morning from now until November and hand-deliver notes that say "There's not a chance in hell the Islanders play six games at the new Coliseum," and Ratner could still push the idea to the public that it's in the cards. For all we know the NHL could have told him this already.

But what's stopping Ratner from talking? What's the downside to using an NHL team as a lure, and how does the NHL stop it? All he wants to do is drum up support so that there is added burden on the Nassau County legislators to pass his arena plan. Ratner won't give two ***** if the Islanders ever play here again once the move is made, and he won't give two ***** about anybody's feelings in Nassau County once his Nassau arena plan ever passes.
Why would Ratner want to create any ill will with people of Nassau when he is going to operate a smaller arena here and as well as Barclay's which may still draw some fans from out here? That sounds like it is vindictive, and not beneficial to his business which includes selling tickets to those same people. Of course, much of this posturing now may be simply lip service/campaign promises, but he has every reason to try and keep all local fans in the fold by honoring his promises or providing spin and considering those fans if he can't.

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08-17-2013, 02:41 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
I mean I guess you're right..

Maybe back then splitting venues is what made financial sense.. Maybe 20 years from now splitting venues will be reality for a dozen or more teams.

Right now, though, the norm is that every major league team plays all of their home games in one venue except for special situations that promote the league.. (NFL games in Europe, NHL outdoor games, etc)..

Current market conditions seem to indicate that you make more money having a single venue.. But, considering what you pointed out, maybe the Islanders will be a test case toward re-visiting multi-venue setups for teams.. to get the most available Saturdays possible or whatever..

I know we do things different.. I just wish we wouldn't blaze the trail for something like this before we even got in to our new home, if that's what we're doing..
I don't disagree that multiple venues should not be the norm and may not work in most places. My whole point on this was that I think this is an unusual situation.

You have a pre-existing pocket of fans from the previous teams home in Nassau/Suffolk. Now they have a new venue owned by the same group as the teams new home. The established fans here will be hungry for hockey close to home that they are missing since they can't get to too many games in Brooklyn. I for one, and others that I spoke to all said we will gladly pay a premium to get to a handful of games here. I think there would be a bit of a spectacle with people out here looking forward to the small package(if it does really happen). Not too many other if any pro teams will have that similar situation. So i think that it works here.

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08-17-2013, 03:09 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Has it been confirmed by either Wang or Ratner, that the isles will get out of their Nassau lease a yr early ?

I don't expect Wang to boost payroll , until he moves the team.
I thought I heard yesterday that they will most likely play through the end of the lease. Can't find where I read it though.

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08-17-2013, 03:19 PM
  #304
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Ratner doesn't own the Isles yet. So, as real estate developer speaking about their current/former home, he can say what his PLAN is re Isles playing six games, etc.

The NHL doesn't have to say squat because, well, it's a plan for a building that doesn't exist yet. It's all public PR for Ratner to 'win' the hearts and minds of those on LI and put the pressure on the TOH again. He's on the offensive, smartly.

His plan is perfectly laid out.

(1) Give Nassau an updated NVMC that can hold all those wonderful burbanite-car driving family events/concerts it wants. The population is there to support it since that same population FEARS going over the border to NYC-territory except to (a) taking a train to work, (b) a theater night, (c) anything Xmas related, (d) MSG-based events, (e) and the Turkey Parade.

(2) Throw in a minor league team at a price point that's affordable for the allegedly hockey-starved fanbase on LI that does NOT have enough corporate support to maintain a PROFESSIONAL franchise.

(3) Leverage ownership in Barclay's sports and entertainment to seemlessly market events at various venues.

(4) Focus NYI @ Barclay's to corporate support (NYC $) and increase price point due to limited seating capacity. LI'ers do the NYR-thing. Attend less games per season, but becomes more of an event to go to one.

(5) Throw a public bone to LI'ers that they can avoid the inconvenience of going to Barclay's by 'offering' 6 games a year at NVMC.

So, he's treating LI like its a secondary market that can be tapped for revenues and take market by owning (ie, controlling) Barclay's and NVMC. Smart business strategy. LI is a minor league market, lacks the business dollars to support a NHL franchise, yet has enough pent up family dollars to attend concerts/Disney/minor league hockey, etc.

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08-17-2013, 03:24 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
I don't disagree that multiple venues should not be the norm and may not work in most places. My whole point on this was that I think this is an unusual situation.

You have a pre-existing pocket of fans from the previous teams home in Nassau/Suffolk. Now they have a new venue owned by the same group as the teams new home. The established fans here will be hungry for hockey close to home that they are missing since they can't get to too many games in Brooklyn. I for one, and others that I spoke to all said we will gladly pay a premium to get to a handful of games here. I think there would be a bit of a spectacle with people out here looking forward to the small package(if it does really happen). Not too many other if any pro teams will have that similar situation. So i think that it works here.
Other way around. You will pay a premium to attend fewer games Barclay's (guys, adults, corp $) and take the family frequently to NVMC for minor league hockey at a lower price point. The desire to see NHL hockey will drive people to hit Barclay's for NYI.

Isles games are very family-oriented. How many other teams are like that? Zero. Why? Because the amount of money you make on adults with $ vs. kids is very different. The profit margins on beer/concessions vs. souvenirs is tremendous. Barclay's will be driven to put 95% adults in the seats vs. the NVMC situation where it's probably closer to 65%. Ratner keeps the same population at NVMC (families, kids, students), yet upgrades big time at Barclay's to near adult spending/drinking butts in seats.

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08-17-2013, 03:39 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
I thought I heard yesterday that they will most likely play through the end of the lease. Can't find where I read it though.
Ratner said that on his WFAN interview on Friday.

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08-17-2013, 03:51 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Other way around. You will pay a premium to attend fewer games Barclay's (guys, adults, corp $) and take the family frequently to NVMC for minor league hockey at a lower price point. The desire to see NHL hockey will drive people to hit Barclay's for NYI.

Isles games are very family-oriented. How many other teams are like that? Zero. Why? Because the amount of money you make on adults with $ vs. kids is very different. The profit margins on beer/concessions vs. souvenirs is tremendous. Barclay's will be driven to put 95% adults in the seats vs. the NVMC situation where it's probably closer to 65%. Ratner keeps the same population at NVMC (families, kids, students), yet upgrades big time at Barclay's to near adult spending/drinking butts in seats.
No I stand by my statement.. when the team moves there would still be a strong market for a limited number of NHL games for hockey starved fans here.. The premium on barclays seat for a difficult commute and poorer sight lines will decrease demand for those here for that product relative to current, not increase it. Nassau/Suffolk are two of the wealthiest per capita counties in the country. there will be plenty of interest and disposable income if they do have a handful of NHL games in our backyard.

And with 9 pro teams in the area, and the team leaving us, I won't be attending AHL games unless the team still has a presence here, but to each his own..

The family aspect is most likely irrelevant as raising TIX prices will draw a more adult audience..(although do you have stats on concessions by demographic/age? with all the other merchandise and food kids get at games it may not be as disparate as you think given the average adult is probably not buying 5 or 6 beers a game, more like 1 or 2.. beers brought to tailgates don't go to concessions, markups on things like popcorn, cotton candy and soda are huge). for arguments sake Any difference could easily be factored into ticket prices

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08-17-2013, 04:26 PM
  #308
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I grew up a whaler fan and attended games I. Hartford . I do enjoy the ahl but I can't say enough how much of a dropoff it is to watch ahl games in a building that onced housed an nhl team. IMO if the ST get moved to Nassau the crowds will be near the bottom of the league within 2-3 years . This is not a knock on LI hockey fans at all becuase I've seen that building rock and I know there are great fans there. The market for pro hockey teams is completely saturated at this point.

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08-17-2013, 05:32 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
I thought I heard yesterday that they will most likely play through the end of the lease. Can't find where I read it though.
Ah thanks for clearing that up. I am a little surprised.

I knew that the press reported months ago, that Ratner and Wang hoped County pols would let the isles leave a yr early. I expected Ratner winning meant an early exit.

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08-17-2013, 08:23 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
I mean I guess you're right..

Maybe back then splitting venues is what made financial sense.. Maybe 20 years from now splitting venues will be reality for a dozen or more teams.

Right now, though, the norm is that every major league team plays all of their home games in one venue except for special situations that promote the league.. (NFL games in Europe, NHL outdoor games, etc)..

Current market conditions seem to indicate that you make more money having a single venue.. But, considering what you pointed out, maybe the Islanders will be a test case toward re-visiting multi-venue setups for teams.. to get the most available Saturdays possible or whatever..

I know we do things different.. I just wish we wouldn't blaze the trail for something like this before we even got in to our new home, if that's what we're doing..
The time has long since passed where individual STHs went to 40 games a year. With partial season plans and StubHub, the reality is that a team playing 6 games in another venue now would not be a big deal. And it is actually a potential money-maker for teams assuming those limited games would sell out, it would create special merchandising options, and also help market a team regionally (especially helping out with TV revenue). What is the Winter Classic if not a cash cow via playing a home game in a different venue?

Other teams will be interested in doing this, and if there is just one owner standing in the way (Dolan) the pressure on him to back down would be tremendous.

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08-18-2013, 05:21 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
The time has long since passed where individual STHs went to 40 games a year. With partial season plans and StubHub, the reality is that a team playing 6 games in another venue now would not be a big deal. And it is actually a potential money-maker for teams assuming those limited games would sell out, it would create special merchandising options, and also help market a team regionally (especially helping out with TV revenue). What is the Winter Classic if not a cash cow via playing a home game in a different venue?

Other teams will be interested in doing this, and if there is just one owner standing in the way (Dolan) the pressure on him to back down would be tremendous.
I don't think it is just one owner scoffing and standing in the way.

As soon as Ratner's proposal was made public, an article came out with 1-2 unnamed sources being quoted.
They pointed out that Wang and Ratner could not just up and decide to have the team play regular season games in a 2nd arena, that the league front office and other teams would have to approve and the 13,000 seating issue was going to be a problem.

Ratner's a salesman, trying to push through his Coliseum plans. Owners with 18,000-19,000 seat arenas, are not going to be impressed with his sales bs, while hyping his 13,000 seat arena. Imo it won't be just Dolan balking.

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08-18-2013, 06:05 AM
  #312
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you did see the condition ratner had to agree to right?

that if the nhl or rags prevents the 6 isles games, he owes the county 1 million

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08-18-2013, 09:03 AM
  #313
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you did see the condition ratner had to agree to right?

that if the nhl or rags prevents the 6 isles games, he owes the county 1 million
The cost of doing business and someone else is the bad guy. Perfect setup for him. Throw a bone to Nassau peeps to get the development built. Smart move.

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08-19-2013, 07:29 PM
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https://twitter.com/randimarshall/st...64772410253312

Ratner said today after presser that the #Isles will NOT be moving back to Nassau Coli after the renovation. It'll be too small.

1:10 PM - 16 Aug 13

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08-19-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
https://twitter.com/randimarshall/st...64772410253312

Ratner said today after presser that the #Isles will NOT be moving back to Nassau Coli after the renovation. It'll be too small.

1:10 PM - 16 Aug 13
GAME SET MATCH

tired of hearing people saying "there is a chance" sorry folks that sound you hear is the train leaving the station 20 miles west.

All Aboard!

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08-19-2013, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
https://twitter.com/randimarshall/st...64772410253312

Ratner said today after presser that the #Isles will NOT be moving back to Nassau Coli after the renovation. It'll be too small.

1:10 PM - 16 Aug 13
Thank you!!!! Finally!!!!

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08-19-2013, 11:43 PM
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Thank you!!!! Finally!!!!
Yeah I don't think this will change anyone's mind.

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08-19-2013, 11:45 PM
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why couldn't this happen a year or 2 ago?....I hate Nassua

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08-20-2013, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
https://twitter.com/randimarshall/st...64772410253312

Ratner said today after presser that the #Isles will NOT be moving back to Nassau Coli after the renovation. It'll be too small.

1:10 PM - 16 Aug 13



IT'S OVER

And yet there will still always be fools who think they will. (Probably even after they've been in Brooklyn for 15 years too.)



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08-20-2013, 08:04 AM
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Yes and 10 years ago Wang was saying they wouldn't leave Nassau. It's saying what you have to say... just like the Sound Tigers saying that they aren't leaving CT. If Brooklyn's setup ends up as embarassing as it looks then their stay there will not be long.

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08-20-2013, 09:05 AM
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I was probably one of the early ones suggesting a move to Brooklyn was likely, my primary reasoning being that the arena EXISTS (unlike proposals for NVMC, Suffolk, Queens, etc.). I had no rooting interest, it was just common sense.

Well now, NVMC also EXISTS in the future as a revamped arena. So despite what anyone is saying, until the Isles are in Brooklyn and selling the place out consistently, it's not "over". Also, while they're saying the new attendance will be 13,000, it's not like they're tearing down the NVMC. They're affixing metal panels to the outside and renovating the inside and developing the surrounding area. But the bones of a 15-16,000 seat arena will remain.

Having said all that, I would think the likelihood is that they go to Brooklyn as stated and remain there. However, if things don't work out there for some reason it's pretty obvious that there is now a contingency plan.

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08-20-2013, 09:36 AM
  #322
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Yes and 10 years ago Wang was saying they wouldn't leave Nassau. It's saying what you have to say... just like the Sound Tigers saying that they aren't leaving CT. If Brooklyn's setup ends up as embarassing as it looks then their stay there will not be long.
See what I mean? Right on cue. It's called denial. 10 years ago, Wang didn't know nassore government and most residents couldn't care less about NYI. Now he and others do. If the owner of NYI and Barlclay's make enough money in BK they won't care how the seating looks or care about fans and will be there forever. If you don't want to listen to Ratner, maybe when NVMC has only 13K seats and not enough luxury boxes or club seats to sustain an NHL team you'll accept it. Probably not.

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08-20-2013, 09:50 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
I was probably one of the early ones suggesting a move to Brooklyn was likely, my primary reasoning being that the arena EXISTS (unlike proposals for NVMC, Suffolk, Queens, etc.). I had no rooting interest, it was just common sense.

Well now, NVMC also EXISTS in the future as a revamped arena. So despite what anyone is saying, until the Isles are in Brooklyn and selling the place out consistently, it's not "over". Also, while they're saying the new attendance will be 13,000, it's not like they're tearing down the NVMC. They're affixing metal panels to the outside and renovating the inside and developing the surrounding area. But the bones of a 15-16,000 seat arena will remain.

Having said all that, I would think the likelihood is that they go to Brooklyn as stated and remain there. However, if things don't work out there for some reason it's pretty obvious that there is now a contingency plan.
It's not just "anyone" saying this. It's the man himself, the main decision maker. NVMC doesn't exist as a future NHL arena. Not enough luxury suites or club seating to justify it. Just minor league capable. The original NVMC held 14K+ seats. Ratner is planning on 13K going back to roomier aisles etc. Not to mention the difference in potential revenue, funds, corporate support and infrastructure - all of which hasn't worked in nassore for 20+ years. It's not an obvious contingency plan at all. If BK doesn't work out (and it will) hello Quebec or Seattle.

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08-20-2013, 10:12 AM
  #324
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Kevin Schultz at IPB chimes in on the "back to LI" pipe dream:

http://islanderspointblank.com/islan...se/#more-41794

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08-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #325
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"and about those luxury boxes. They are important to arena revenue, so much so that the Barclays Center was built with 130 of them with the most expensive selling for as much as $550,000 per year.

"With 100+ suites and the ability to charge New York City prices for those suites as well as signage, sponsorships and tickets there’s more money to be made in Brooklyn."

http://islanderspointblank.com/islan...se/#more-41794

The price point in Brooklyn will be higher than it could have been in Nassau.

Nassau and Brooklyn are not the same market.

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