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Old
08-18-2013, 03:25 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I think the organisation really needs to see what happens with Markov this year and what those contract talks will be like before they can decide anything about Diaz.
Markov is an interesting situation and his future with Montreal probably be influenced by Beaulieu's development. To be sure, if he plays like last season it would be nice to have him around for a couple of more years but not as a top pairing defenseman. Second or third pairing along with some PP time after next season would be ideal... kind of the same role that some are proposing for Hainsey.

The challenge would be to fit him into the salary structure. He could become our Alfie after next year.

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08-18-2013, 03:29 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Everyone wants him gone. Well, except for Natey.
I doubt that you speak for everyone. Diaz is not someone I want gone simply for the sake of not having him on the roster. He has a skill set that probably appeals to more than one team but if we don't get fair value in return, I would sooner keep him.

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08-18-2013, 04:57 PM
  #603
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Hainsey was the most trusted dman on Winnipeg's PK by a mile, and top 3 (5 seconds behind Bogo) at ES. He is 32 years old and only missed 1 game last season, so I don't think a huge decline should be expected. IMO his reputation from a decade ago shouldn't carry any weight at this point.

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08-18-2013, 05:23 PM
  #604
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Hainsey is completely one-dimensional for a big guy. He has no idea what to do in his own end and he isn't what the Canadiens need. Personally, I would sooner have Drewiske at $640K than Hainsey at a million for a couple of reasons. One of them is that I am sure Drewiske will understand what is role on the team is. I am not sure if the same could be said about Hainsey.
I expect people here will be throwing rocks at me but that (in bold) is what comes to mind when I watch Beaulieu.

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08-18-2013, 05:42 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Matteus View Post
I expect people here will be throwing rocks at me but that (in bold) is what comes to mind when I watch Beaulieu.
Yet last year, he was a -8 for the year, while Tinordi was -14, Ellis was -16, and Pateryn was -12.

Yes, I realize stats don't mean much. However, one would find it peculiar that someone who 'has no idea what to do in his own end' would have such a decent +/- when compared to his defenceman teammates.

Of course, most people around here seem to love taking potshots at Beaulieu, so I shouldn't be surprised.

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08-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #606
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Yet last year, he was a -8 for the year, while Tinordi was -14, Ellis was -16, and Pateryn was -12.

Yes, I realize stats don't mean much. However, one would find it peculiar that someone who 'has no idea what to do in his own end' would have such a decent +/- when compared to his defenceman teammates.

Of course, most people around here seem to love taking potshots at Beaulieu, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Forget the stats, just watch the guy run around when his team doesn't have the puck. That's taking a potshot?

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08-18-2013, 05:50 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Hainsey was the most trusted dman on Winnipeg's PK by a mile, and top 3 (5 seconds behind Bogo) at ES. He is 32 years old and only missed 1 game last season, so I don't think a huge decline should be expected. IMO his reputation from a decade ago shouldn't carry any weight at this point.
All that is true, but he doesn't have 10 hits a game With Emelin out to start the season, a 1 year deal at or around the rumoured asking price, is very low risk. Defensively speaking he'd be at least a #4 on the Habs' ahead of Bouillon, Diaz, Tinordi, and Drewiske. Not sure I see any down side, unless he's looking for 2 - 3 years only.

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08-18-2013, 05:52 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I think the organisation really needs to see what happens with Markov this year and what those contract talks will be like before they can decide anything about Diaz.
I think they need to extend one or both. If both are signed to good deals then you can potentially move one next summer if Beaulieu is ready for a bigger role.

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08-18-2013, 06:17 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Matteus View Post
I expect people here will be throwing rocks at me but that (in bold) is what comes to mind when I watch Beaulieu.
I can't disagree

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08-18-2013, 06:20 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Matteus View Post
Forget the stats, just watch the guy run around when his team doesn't have the puck. That's taking a potshot?
LOL it is what it is...

I realize his strength isn't defensive prowess, but I'd say if you feel he looks out of place it might have more to do with him being 20 years old and a first year pro than anything else. I watched him for years in SJ and he developed into a good defenseman with great offensive instinct. People seem to forget about his age I guess.

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08-18-2013, 06:28 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Hainsey was the most trusted dman on Winnipeg's PK by a mile, and top 3 (5 seconds behind Bogo) at ES. He is 32 years old and only missed 1 game last season, so I don't think a huge decline should be expected. IMO his reputation from a decade ago shouldn't carry any weight at this point.
It's not his reputation from three years ago that worries me.

He had all that ice time on the third worst PK team in the league. To his credit he had a lot of blocked shots but his hits total was microscopic and he had the worst give away/take away ratio of all of their defenseman.

Not to say he couldn't help but I would have to know a lot more about his expectations and attitude before offering him a contract.

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08-18-2013, 06:35 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Yet last year, he was a -8 for the year, while Tinordi was -14, Ellis was -16, and Pateryn was -12.

Yes, I realize stats don't mean much. However, one would find it peculiar that someone who 'has no idea what to do in his own end' would have such a decent +/- when compared to his defenceman teammates.

Of course, most people around here seem to love taking potshots at Beaulieu, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Plus minus also includes offense, so that can just be that the team was better at scoring with Beaulieu than the other guys (perhaps so much so to cover for being worse at preventing goals). It could also reflect usage (Offensive d put in offensive situations, defensive d in defensive situations leads to better +/- for the Off. D). Or just random factors like the goalies being better in front of Beaulieu for no reason but chance.

+/- isn't much of a defensive stat.

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08-18-2013, 06:52 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Plus minus also includes offense, so that can just be that the team was better at scoring with Beaulieu than the other guys (perhaps so much so to cover for being worse at preventing goals). It could also reflect usage (Offensive d put in offensive situations, defensive d in defensive situations leads to better +/- for the Off. D). Or just random factors like the goalies being better in front of Beaulieu for no reason but chance.

+/- isn't much of a defensive stat.
Of course I'm just talking about a statistic - but does it not seem peculiar to you for a guy who seems to get negative press about his defensive play to have a better stat in this department than the others mentioned? I don't mean to say that due to this stat he is better defensively than Tinordi or the others, but simply that f he had no idea what to do in the defensive zone wouldn't you expect that stat to be far worse in relation to his defensive teammates? Remember, PP points don't factor in to +/-.

And what about the fact he was voted by the players as the team MVP? And voted the team's top defenceman? Do these typically get awarded to a defenseman who has no idea what to do in his own end??

Just food for thought.

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Old
08-18-2013, 07:14 PM
  #614
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To be honest, Beaulieu doesn't really have to be great in his own end, I want to know if he can QB a PP, because Markov isn't what he once was 5 on 5, but what makes him so important to the team is how he runs the pp, Subban isn't a pp qb, more of a trigger man, Daiz isn't good at it, so if Beaulieu can do it, we can just give him easy minutes 5 on 5 pairing with defensive d-men.

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08-18-2013, 08:11 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
To be honest, Beaulieu doesn't really have to be great in his own end, I want to know if he can QB a PP, because Markov isn't what he once was 5 on 5, but what makes him so important to the team is how he runs the pp, Subban isn't a pp qb, more of a trigger man, Daiz isn't good at it, so if Beaulieu can do it, we can just give him easy minutes 5 on 5 pairing with defensive d-men.
I'm one of them who think Beaulieu can surprise.
I like his skating, grit and vision. Could be more defensively aware and perhaps stronger in front of the net. He could play in the NHL next year but one more year in the AHL could be what the doctor ordered.
Overall, our defense needs works. Looking at it, even with Subban, the noris winner, it's weak. Markov is great on the PP but not has strong defensively. He's less mobile on his skates and that hurts him. He's very smart hockey player so can he be better next year?
Gorges is sloted at number 3 and that's not his spot IMO. He's a PK speciallist with grit and determination. Took a step back last year and I beleive it's his ice time. Don't get me wrong, he can help the top 4.
Emelin IM rounds the top 4. Probelm here is that he's injured until November or December. Solid guy who's still learning the NHL game and glad to have him.
Diaz has gotten flack from fans( me included) and perhaps too much. IMO, the thing that Diaz hasn't got going is his overall strenght. He's smart and well position and reads the play well. He's got positive value. SHould we move him?
After that, there Bouillon and DD. Can Tinordi take one of those spot? I say most definate and possibly even Beaulieu could take one of those spot. Also with Emelin out, that one more spot open.
With what we got and Emelin out, I like to see this:

Subban-Gorges
Tinordi-Markov
Beaulieu-Bouillon

With Emelin:

PK-Tinordi
Emelin-Markov
Beaulieu-Gorges

Still it needs work.

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08-18-2013, 08:29 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
I'm one of them who think Beaulieu can surprise.
I like his skating, grit and vision. Could be more defensively aware and perhaps stronger in front of the net. He could play in the NHL next year but one more year in the AHL could be what the doctor ordered.
Overall, our defense needs works. Looking at it, even with Subban, the noris winner, it's weak. Markov is great on the PP but not has strong defensively. He's less mobile on his skates and that hurts him. He's very smart hockey player so can he be better next year?
Gorges is sloted at number 3 and that's not his spot IMO. He's a PK speciallist with grit and determination. Took a step back last year and I beleive it's his ice time. Don't get me wrong, he can help the top 4.
Emelin IM rounds the top 4. Probelm here is that he's injured until November or December. Solid guy who's still learning the NHL game and glad to have him.
Diaz has gotten flack from fans( me included) and perhaps too much. IMO, the thing that Diaz hasn't got going is his overall strenght. He's smart and well position and reads the play well. He's got positive value. SHould we move him?
After that, there Bouillon and DD. Can Tinordi take one of those spot? I say most definate and possibly even Beaulieu could take one of those spot. Also with Emelin out, that one more spot open.
With what we got and Emelin out, I like to see this:

Subban-Gorges
Tinordi-Markov
Beaulieu-Bouillon

With Emelin:

PK-Tinordi
Emelin-Markov
Beaulieu-Gorges

Still it needs work.
Agree with everything, specially with your line ups, I think Beaulieu starts the year in the AHL unless he really surprises, but I think he'll somehow end the season with the Habs, just like Tinordi did.

But like you, my ideal lineup d-core would be, hopeful by mid season we might get to see that.

Tinordi-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Beaulieu-Gorges

Subban having a big guy like Tinordi allows him to kinda play his in your face game more, and while Tinordi not be a great fighter, he'll be able to protect Subban. IMO Subban in the 2010-11, the later part and the playoffs vs the Bruins that year, Subban was a beast, IMO that stretch was better than his past norris season, played in your face, and start scums and Gill would jump in and protect him vs Horton, Lucic, etc.

I like the other 2 pairings too, very balanced, could even bump Gorges to play with Markov late in games, or even having a Gorges-Emelin pairing if Markov is a little warn up.

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Old
08-18-2013, 08:36 PM
  #617
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I'm hoping Winnipeg can make a deal with our Habs for Byfuglien?
(maybe the Bogosian signing to lots of $$$ can help us?).
No?! Yes?!

He can really help PK Subban in the playoffs (we have too many regular season dmen, too many...not enough warrior/playoff dmen).
IMO, we really are in urgent need of more playoff warriors like PK Subban.... and we all saw what Byfuglien did with Chicago to contain Chris Pronger... Byfuglien is a major playoffs warrior/beast and would love to see him in a Hab jersey for the next 5 seasons...every season he's not in playoffs is a waste imo 'cause he was lots of fun to watch when he was with Chicago VS Pronger).


Gorges/Tinordi-PK Subban
Markov-Byfuglien
Emelin(injured)/Gorges-Diaz
Bouillon
Tinordi
Drewiskie



p.s.: time to stop adding mediocre crap/soft as butter dmen to our D-Corps...gotta make that trade that's going to make a BIG difference (ex: when Edmonton went to get Pronger...made the Cup Finals ; the combination of PK Subban and The Big Buff can do this for us...give us BIG playoff success).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 08-18-2013 at 10:38 PM.
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08-18-2013, 08:41 PM
  #618
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I'm hoping Winnipeg can make a deal with our Habs for Byfuglien?
(maybe the Bogosian signing to lots of $$$ can help us?).
No?! Yes?!

He can really help PK Subban in the playoffs (we have too many regular season dmen, too many...not enough warrior/playoff dmen).
IMO, we really are in urgent need of more playoff warriors like PK Subban.... and we all saw what Byfuglien did with Chicago to contain Chris Pronger... Byfuglien is a major playoffs warrior/beast and would love to see him in a Hab jersey for the next 5 seasons...every season he's not in playoffs is a waste imo 'cause he was lots of fun to watch when he was with Chicago VS Pronger).


Gorges/Tinordi-PK Subban
Markov-Byfuglien
Emelin(injured)/Gorges-Diaz
Bouillon
Tinordi
Byfuglien never even bothered to get in shape last year. Winnipeg was pretty unhappy with his level of commitment and I can't see why the Habs would want to pay his salary, never mind giving up assets to do so.

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08-18-2013, 08:44 PM
  #619
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Agree with everything, specially with your line ups, I think Beaulieu starts the year in the AHL unless he really surprises, but I think he'll somehow end the season with the Habs, just like Tinordi did.

But like you, my ideal lineup d-core would be, hopeful by mid season we might get to see that.

Tinordi-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Beaulieu-Gorges

Subban having a big guy like Tinordi allows him to kinda play his in your face game more, and while Tinordi not be a great fighter, he'll be able to protect Subban. IMO Subban in the 2010-11, the later part and the playoffs vs the Bruins that year, Subban was a beast, IMO that stretch was better than his past norris season, played in your face, and start scums and Gill would jump in and protect him vs Horton, Lucic, etc.

I like the other 2 pairings too, very balanced, could even bump Gorges to play with Markov late in games, or even having a Gorges-Emelin pairing if Markov is a little warn up.
I also expect Tinordi to start in Montreal while Beaulieu starts in Hamilton. One more year there would do wonders for him imo. Leaving Bouillon and DD as 6-7, probably splitting the time in the lineup to some degree. When Emelin comes back, assessment s made on Tinordi-Bouillon-DD, barring other injuries.

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08-18-2013, 08:47 PM
  #620
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Byfuglien never even bothered to get in shape last year. Winnipeg was pretty unhappy with his level of commitment and I can't see why the Habs would want to pay his salary, never mind giving up assets to do so.
Saw a pic on twitter during summer, should him in better shape than last year.


I too would like Buff here, but he asking price would probably be a lot, Jets re-signed Bogo who is also a RD, but until Trouba is ready for a the top 4 RD spot, I don't think they move Buff.

As for why the Habs would be interested, if the Jets where looking to move him, I'd think the Habs would be very interested because of Ast GM Dudley, he had Buff when he was with the Hawks, and one of his first moves as Atl's GM was to trade for Buff and move him to Defense, and then he re-signed him long term.


Last edited by habs03: 08-18-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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08-18-2013, 08:50 PM
  #621
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Byfuglien never even bothered to get in shape last year. Winnipeg was pretty unhappy with his level of commitment and I can't see why the Habs would want to pay his salary, never mind giving up assets to do so.
I think it's more about the Jet's trying to play a more disciplined style of hockey and also now they have guys like Bogosian and Trouba and they don't need him anymore. To me his being out of shape hasn't stopped him from playing a lot of minutes of hockey.

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Old
08-19-2013, 12:57 AM
  #622
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Byfuglien never even bothered to get in shape last year. Winnipeg was pretty unhappy with his level of commitment and I can't see why the Habs would want to pay his salary, never mind giving up assets to do so.
This could be a good thing...could increase our chances of getting such a BEAST/MACHINE/PLAYOFFS WARRIOR of a dman!

I'd bet lots of $$$ if he came to Montreal he wouldn't turn into a 350lbs version of Homer Simpson! He'd have PK Subban as a great influence since he's a mega superstar on ice and a machine in the gym and for workouts (and commitment).
And apparently The Big Buff is in better shape now (harder to get him now since his value went back UP!).

Why get a dman that will not really help us in the playoffs...? It's time to think about getting a dman or two that will help us and RIGHT *****ing NOW!! (tired of waiting for our D-CORPS to improve). It needs at least 1 more solid top 2 dmen, and one more solid top 4 dman. And The Big Buff would solve this problem right away.

I'd be ready to give up a 2nd and 3rd Rnd Pick + more (DD? + one of Beaulieu? Diaz? Markov? Emelin?) for Byfuglien. The Big Buff is worth the risk, imo. And, remember...he could also play a MEGA POWER FORWARD! but we would really desperately need him as a dman...who could stay in front of the net anytime he would want to (probably the hardest player to move in front of the net).

Tinordi/Gorges - PK Subban
Markov/Gorges - Byfuglien
Emelin - Diaz
Beaulieu

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08-19-2013, 04:29 AM
  #623
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This could be a good thing...could increase our chances of getting such a BEAST/MACHINE/PLAYOFFS WARRIOR of a dman!

I'd bet lots of $$$ if he came to Montreal he wouldn't turn into a 350lbs version of Homer Simpson! He'd have PK Subban as a great influence since he's a mega superstar on ice and a machine in the gym and for workouts (and commitment).
And apparently The Big Buff is in better shape now (harder to get him now since his value went back UP!).

Why get a dman that will not really help us in the playoffs...? It's time to think about getting a dman or two that will help us and RIGHT *****ing NOW!! (tired of waiting for our D-CORPS to improve). It needs at least 1 more solid top 2 dmen, and one more solid top 4 dman. And The Big Buff would solve this problem right away.

I'd be ready to give up a 2nd and 3rd Rnd Pick + more (DD? + one of Beaulieu? Diaz? Markov? Emelin?) for Byfuglien. The Big Buff is worth the risk, imo. And, remember...he could also play a MEGA POWER FORWARD! but we would really desperately need him as a dman...who could stay in front of the net anytime he would want to (probably the hardest player to move in front of the net).

Tinordi/Gorges - PK Subban
Markov/Gorges - Byfuglien
Emelin - Diaz
Beaulieu
the "warrior" was playing as a forward last time you saw him during playoffs, you remember that right ?


Last edited by ECWHSWI: 08-19-2013 at 04:34 AM.
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08-19-2013, 08:54 AM
  #624
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I'm still waiting for Alex Edler to make his way onto our team.

An Edler-Subban pairing would be a real treat to watch and a pain in the ass to play against.

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08-19-2013, 09:20 AM
  #625
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I'm still waiting for Alex Edler to make his way onto our team.

An Edler-Subban pairing would be a real treat to watch and a pain in the ass to play against.
It would be great but we better be ready to give back. He ain't coming cheap

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