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Hamilton Bulldogs & Wheeling Nailers 2013-2014 "No more Stortini" Edition

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Old
08-19-2013, 12:40 PM
  #76
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Tokarski's signed so people will stop freaking out now, I'm guessing. http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=680461


So Mayer has a two year deal. Tokarski has a one year deal. Condon has a two year deal.

I'm assuming they're hoping Mayer and Condon can develop into the Hamilton duo for the 2014-15 season.

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08-19-2013, 01:01 PM
  #77
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Tokarski's signed so people will stop freaking out now, I'm guessing. http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=680461


So Mayer has a two year deal. Tokarski has a one year deal. Condon has a two year deal.

I'm assuming they're hoping Mayer and Condon can develop into the Hamilton duo for the 2014-15 season.
Good deal re Tokarski in all senses of the expression

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08-19-2013, 01:06 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Tokarski re-signed, thankfully we won't have Mayer as our #1 now
With Tokarski signed the only player that I might like to see signed as a veteran and calming presence would be Alex Henry, these two players could be the straws that stir the icy waters for a Bulldog Calder Cup playoff run late into next spring.

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08-19-2013, 01:29 PM
  #79
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Don't forget St-Pierre. Expect him to make a huge impact.
he should replace the offense lost by Joey Tenute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
There definitely going to be better. Nygren will make a huge difference. Thomas will have a big year. NB will put up big points. Holland, Bournival, Pateryn, Ellis and (I hope) Quailer will be a lot better.

Ghetto and Nystrom could be pretty nice additions as well.

I think they'll be a good team. They're lacking a veteran D but I think there's enough great additions to at least be a playoff team.
Even with Tokarski being re-signed I would be shocked if they were playoff bound, since we are talking about the worst team in the league with the worst offense, so to rebound they are going to need a lot of things to go right. But at this point it's impossible to guess how it will go for guys like Leblanc, Ellis, Nattinen, etc... as there are a lot of question marks going into the season, which is to be expected for an AHL club but this season it appears to be even more so then ususal.

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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Can not see Dogs in the PO.
agreed, it will take some kind of turnaround to get them into the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treb View Post
St-Denis out, Schiestel in. Don't see that much of a downgrade.
St-Denis didn't have the best season last year, but he's miles better then Schiestel i'd say.

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08-19-2013, 02:48 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
he should replace the offense lost by Joey Tenute.



Even with Tokarski being re-signed I would be shocked if they were playoff bound, since we are talking about the worst team in the league with the worst offense, so to rebound they are going to need a lot of things to go right. But at this point it's impossible to guess how it will go for guys like Leblanc, Ellis, Nattinen, etc... as there are a lot of question marks going into the season, which is to be expected for an AHL club but this season it appears to be even more so then ususal.



agreed, it will take some kind of turnaround to get them into the playoffs.



St-Denis didn't have the best season last year, but he's miles better then Schiestel i'd say.
I'm willing to friendly bet/low wager bet with you that the Dogs will make the playoffs!

I actually think they can do some damage.

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08-20-2013, 12:02 PM
  #81
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Gus Katsaros ‏@KatsHockey 8m I like Chouinard RT @monstershockey Free Agency UPDATE >>> Joel Chouinard (@27chewy) has signed with the Hamilton Bulldogs (@BulldogsAHL).

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08-20-2013, 12:05 PM
  #82
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What's up with these fringe AHLers signing...

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08-20-2013, 03:27 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
What's up with these fringe AHLers signing...
I would say depth but I might be wrong

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08-20-2013, 05:24 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
St-Denis didn't have the best season last year, but he's miles better then Schiestel i'd say.
The fact that all the rookies will be 1 year older should make it at least par. I also expect Nygren/Dietz to be miles ahead Corbin after 10-20 games.

Tokarski for a full year should be good also.

As for Tenute vs St-Pierre, I may be wrong because I haven't watched them enough to tell, but I'd say Tenute < St-Pierre plus St-Pierre should be here all season long and not just 40 games like Tenute.

I still trust your judgement because you know the AHL (hockey in general) way more than me and I could be wrong everywhere. I do agree they can't do much worse than they did last year, so whatever happens is a step forward!

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08-20-2013, 05:43 PM
  #85
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The problem with last year's team based on what I saw was 1) the obvious lack of talent up front 2) questionable coaching 3) lack of experience AND underperforming veterans. Leblanc, St-Denis and Nash were horrible this year. Hagel was useless and Stortini was just a meathead. It also doesn't help that Desjardins was quite average to start off the season.

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08-20-2013, 05:52 PM
  #86
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Every time I see the title of this thread, my day gets a little bit better.

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08-20-2013, 07:28 PM
  #87
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I agree with all about how bad the team was last year. A huge factor in this in my opinion is that they had a very young team that due to the look-out had to compete against teams loaded with guys who normally would be in the NHL, whereas they had none of those. By the time the NHL resumed play, the hole they had dug was too deep to get out of even with other teams losing their NHL players. Once a mentality of losing sets in it is often hard to shake. Starting the year off on a level playing field this year, and with all the rookies from last year a bit more experienced, I think that we can expect them to be more competitive and enjoyable to watch. Results is a whole different matter, and that remains to be seen.

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08-21-2013, 01:30 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
The problem with last year's team based on what I saw was 1) the obvious lack of talent up front 2) questionable coaching 3) lack of experience AND underperforming veterans. Leblanc, St-Denis and Nash were horrible this year. Hagel was useless and Stortini was just a meathead. It also doesn't help that Desjardins was quite average to start off the season.
Yeah let's forget that Leblanc had a serious injury
Palushaj was dealt through waiver
Let's also forget that Blake Geoffrion had a career ending injury.

There goes the Dogs first line...

Every teams would face hardship if you take out their first line as well...

But we'll also forget that Tinordi and Dumont spent time up in the NHL which further diminished the DOgs line up.

And then the motto of the province is "I remember"...

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08-21-2013, 06:03 AM
  #89
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Let's not forget that Gally played half his season down with the Bulldogs and then with the Canadiens. I don't think it can be worse than last season but I doubt it would be so much better. A few new guys might help the team but then, you still have a lot of rookies that are coming in again (and all those fringe players). There should still be lack of talent up front.

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08-21-2013, 06:14 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Yeah let's forget that Leblanc had a serious injury
Palushaj was dealt through waiver
Let's also forget that Blake Geoffrion had a career ending injury.

There goes the Dogs first line...

Every teams would face hardship if you take out their first line as well...

But we'll also forget that Tinordi and Dumont spent time up in the NHL which further diminished the DOgs line up.

And then the motto of the province is "I remember"...
Too bad Palushaj and Geoffrion (before his injury) were not playing like first liners. Geoffrion showed flashes offensively but Palushaj was invisible for most of the games I saw him (especially when you take in consideration his experience compared to his peers). Having players getting called up shouldn't be an excuse, every team has to go through that and that's why you get depth for your farm team. When Gallagher made the team, Bergevin should have signed a veteran willing to go play in Hamilton to compensate for the hole Gally would create but he didn't. For as much flack that Gauthier got, he always made sure that we had veterans in the A (Boyd, Dawes, Stafford, MacIntyre).

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08-21-2013, 11:11 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
I'm willing to friendly bet/low wager bet with you that the Dogs will make the playoffs!

I actually think they can do some damage.
Since I will be watching most of Hamilton's games, I woudn't bet against them, but I would be shocked if they come close to making the playoffs with this roster. I just hope they are more fun to watch, as it's a long season and I don't want a repeat of last year as it was painful to sit through most nights.

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What's up with these fringe AHLers signing...
Got to have some ECHL depth, they a light on D's as it is, as I'd like to see them carry a few more bodies in the ECHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treb View Post
The fact that all the rookies will be 1 year older should make it at least par. I also expect Nygren/Dietz to be miles ahead Corbin after 10-20 games.

Tokarski for a full year should be good also.

As for Tenute vs St-Pierre, I may be wrong because I haven't watched them enough to tell, but I'd say Tenute < St-Pierre plus St-Pierre should be here all season long and not just 40 games like Tenute.

I still trust your judgement because you know the AHL (hockey in general) way more than me and I could be wrong everywhere. I do agree they can't do much worse than they did last year, so whatever happens is a step forward!
While the defense are 1 year older, the problem is they are now the vets on defense and that's a scary thought. Going into last season I didn't like the fact that only St-Denis was their veteran presence on the blueline, but now the D is slightly younger then last year which will certainly be interesting to see. To me it sounds like repeating the same mistake but time will tell.

Agreed that a full year of Tokarski should help, and Nygren/Dietz being miles better then Corbin, although Corbin played a small role for less then half the season. Nygren is a big wild card for me, as the Dogs PP was just terrible and if Nygren can help to get it going more consistently then that could be big as well as the Dogs were not a team that could come from behind and having your PP do nothing sure hurt things. St-Pierre I'd also say is better then Tenute but I don't think it is by much. Tenute was their best forward and I expect St-Pierre to be the same but without secondary scoring it won't matter much imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
The problem with last year's team based on what I saw was 1) the obvious lack of talent up front 2) questionable coaching 3) lack of experience AND underperforming veterans. Leblanc, St-Denis and Nash were horrible this year. Hagel was useless and Stortini was just a meathead. It also doesn't help that Desjardins was quite average to start off the season.
1) agreed 2) agreed 3) agreed. I was very surprised at how poorly Desjardins looked, plus I heard talk of problems between him and the coaching staff which may have made matters worse.

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Originally Posted by HABitual Fan View Post
I agree with all about how bad the team was last year. A huge factor in this in my opinion is that they had a very young team that due to the look-out had to compete against teams loaded with guys who normally would be in the NHL, whereas they had none of those. By the time the NHL resumed play, the hole they had dug was too deep to get out of even with other teams losing their NHL players. Once a mentality of losing sets in it is often hard to shake. Starting the year off on a level playing field this year, and with all the rookies from last year a bit more experienced, I think that we can expect them to be more competitive and enjoyable to watch. Results is a whole different matter, and that remains to be seen.
I had my doubts about going into the season with so many rookies on defense, and the lockout certainly didn't help matters, but even after the lockout was over the team just struggled to do much of anything in the offensive zone. It's like they had no clue what to do and no one to control the play in the O zone. They always worked hard at least.

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08-21-2013, 07:13 PM
  #92
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I have always been a believer of having a strong AHL team to develop a winning system, but with the success of our young players last season maybe that is not necessary.

Maybe fewer veterans means more playing time and responsibility. Most of our call ups looked NHL ready, so maybe winning the Calder Cup shouldn't be the goal. It sucks for Bulldog fans, and is hard on the players, but maybe it is better for the Habs.

Is there any correlation between AHL and NHL success?

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08-21-2013, 08:18 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by dre View Post
I have always been a believer of having a strong AHL team to develop a winning system, but with the success of our young players last season maybe that is not necessary.

Maybe fewer veterans means more playing time and responsibility. Most of our call ups looked NHL ready, so maybe winning the Calder Cup shouldn't be the goal. It sucks for Bulldog fans, and is hard on the players, but maybe it is better for the Habs.

Is there any correlation between AHL and NHL success?
Here's a list of the Calder Cup champions in the last decade:
2003: Houston Aeros (Zbynek Michalek)
2004: Milwaukee Admirals (Mathieu Darche, Scottie Upshall, Vern Fiddler, Greg Zanon)
2005: Philadelphia Phantoms (RJ Umberger, Patrick Sharp, Dennis Seidenberg, Joni Pitkanen, Antero Niittymaki)
2006: Hershey Bears (Tomas Fleischmann, Eric Fehr, Mike Green, Boyd Gordon, Dave Steckel)
2007: Hamilton Bulldogs (Kyle Chipchura, Ryan O'Byrne, Maxim Lapierre, Andrei Kostitsyn, Mikhail Grabovski, Matt D'Agostini, Jaroslav Halak)
2008: Chicago Wolves (Ondrej Pavelec)
2009: Hershey Bears (Mathieu Perreault, Karl Alzner)
2010: Hershey Bears (Mathieu Perreault, John Carlson, Jay Beagle, Holtby)
2011: Binghampton Senators
2012: Norfolk Admirals
2013: Grand Rapids Griffins

You can make your own judgment.

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08-21-2013, 09:18 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Here's a list of the Calder Cup champions in the last decade:
2003: Houston Aeros (Zbynek Michalek)
2004: Milwaukee Admirals (Mathieu Darche, Scottie Upshall, Vern Fiddler, Greg Zanon)
2005: Philadelphia Phantoms (RJ Umberger, Patrick Sharp, Dennis Seidenberg, Joni Pitkanen, Antero Niittymaki)
2006: Hershey Bears (Tomas Fleischmann, Eric Fehr, Mike Green, Boyd Gordon, Dave Steckel)
2007: Hamilton Bulldogs (Kyle Chipchura, Ryan O'Byrne, Maxim Lapierre, Andrei Kostitsyn, Mikhail Grabovski, Matt D'Agostini, Jaroslav Halak)
2008: Chicago Wolves (Ondrej Pavelec)
2009: Hershey Bears (Mathieu Perreault, Karl Alzner)
2010: Hershey Bears (Mathieu Perreault, John Carlson, Jay Beagle, Holtby)
2011: Binghampton Senators
2012: Norfolk Admirals
2013: Grand Rapids Griffins

You can make your own judgment.
Let's compare Calder Cup champs and their parent clubs success in subsequent years

2003: Aeros --> 2004-2007 Wild (out of playoffs, no season, out of playoffs, first round exit)
2004: Admirals --> 2005-2008 Predators (no season, first round exit, first round exit, first round exit)
2005: Phantoms --> 2006-2008 Flyers (first round exit, out of playoffs, lost in round three)
2006: Bears --> 2007-2009 Capitals (out of playoffs, first round exit, second round exit)
2007: Bulldogs --> 2008-2010 Canadiens (2nd round exit, first round exit, third round exit)
2008: Wolves --> 2009-2011 Thrashers (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2009 & 2010: Bears --> 2010-2013 Capitals (first round exit, second round exit, second round exit, first round exit)
2011 Senators --> 2012-2013 Senators (first round exit, second round exit)

Out of 9 different calder cup champions we have:

7 seasons out of the playoffs
10 first round exits
5 second round exits
2 third round exits

if you plot that on a graph it looks awfully similar to a bell curve

you can draw your own conclusions from that.


Last edited by dre: 08-21-2013 at 09:48 PM.
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08-21-2013, 09:47 PM
  #95
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Let's now look at how the worst AHL teams compare to their parent clubs in subsequent seasons

2003: Lowell Lock Monster --> 2004-2007 Hurricanes (out of playoffs, no season, Stanley Cup, out of playoffs)
2004: Albany River Rats --> 2005-2008 Devils (no season, 2nd round exit, 2nd round exit, first round exit)
2005 & 2006: Utah Grizzlies & San Antonio Rampage --> 2006-2009 Coyotes (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2007: Senators --> 2008-2010 Senators (first roud exit, out of playoffs, first round exit)
2008: Rochester Americans --> 2009-2011 Sabres (out of playoffs, first round loss, first round loss)
2009 & 2010: Springfield Falcons --> 2010-2013 Oilers (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2011: Albany Devils --> 2012-2013 Devils (Lost in Finals, out of playoffs)

So counting 9 seasons of hockey the results are:

13 seasons of missed playoffs
5 first round exits
2 second round exits
1 Stanley Cup finals loss
1 Stanley Cup

This is not so definitive. Looking at my last two posts, I think we can agree that Calder Cups bring nothing to the NHL team, but being a basement dweller in the AHL shows no organizational depth at all. Hopefully we can pull a 2005 Hurricanes!

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08-21-2013, 10:01 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre View Post
Let's now look at how the worst AHL teams compare to their parent clubs in subsequent seasons

2003: Lowell Lock Monster --> 2004-2007 Hurricanes (out of playoffs, no season, Stanley Cup, out of playoffs)
2004: Albany River Rats --> 2005-2008 Devils (no season, 2nd round exit, 2nd round exit, first round exit)
2005 & 2006: Utah Grizzlies & San Antonio Rampage --> 2006-2009 Coyotes (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2007: Senators --> 2008-2010 Senators (first roud exit, out of playoffs, first round exit)
2008: Rochester Americans --> 2009-2011 Sabres (out of playoffs, first round loss, first round loss)
2009 & 2010: Springfield Falcons --> 2010-2013 Oilers (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2011: Albany Devils --> 2012-2013 Devils (Lost in Finals, out of playoffs)

So counting 9 seasons of hockey the results are:

13 seasons of missed playoffs
5 first round exits
2 second round exits
1 Stanley Cup finals loss
1 Stanley Cup

This is not so definitive. Looking at my last two posts, I think we can agree that Calder Cups bring nothing to the NHL team, but being a basement dweller in the AHL shows no organizational depth at all. Hopefully we can pull a 2005 Hurricanes!
The hurricanes pretty much built their team towards the stanley cup through Trades and Free Agency. The only key player that came out of their farm team was Cam Ward.

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08-21-2013, 10:41 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Here's a list of the Calder Cup champions in the last decade:
2003: Houston Aeros (Zbynek Michalek)
2004: Milwaukee Admirals (Mathieu Darche, Scottie Upshall, Vern Fiddler, Greg Zanon)
2005: Philadelphia Phantoms (RJ Umberger, Patrick Sharp, Dennis Seidenberg, Joni Pitkanen, Antero Niittymaki)
2006: Hershey Bears (Tomas Fleischmann, Eric Fehr, Mike Green, Boyd Gordon, Dave Steckel)
2007: Hamilton Bulldogs (Kyle Chipchura, Ryan O'Byrne, Maxim Lapierre, Andrei Kostitsyn, Mikhail Grabovski, Matt D'Agostini, Jaroslav Halak)
2008: Chicago Wolves (Ondrej Pavelec)
2009: Hershey Bears (Mathieu Perreault, Karl Alzner)
2010: Hershey Bears (Mathieu Perreault, John Carlson, Jay Beagle, Holtby)
2011: Binghampton Senators
2012: Norfolk Admirals
2013: Grand Rapids Griffins

You can make your own judgment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dre View Post
Let's compare Calder Cup champs and their parent clubs success in subsequent years

2003: Aeros --> 2004-2007 Wild (out of playoffs, no season, out of playoffs, first round exit)
2004: Admirals --> 2005-2008 Predators (no season, first round exit, first round exit, first round exit)
2005: Phantoms --> 2006-2008 Flyers (first round exit, out of playoffs, lost in round three)
2006: Bears --> 2007-2009 Capitals (out of playoffs, first round exit, second round exit)
2007: Bulldogs --> 2008-2010 Canadiens (2nd round exit, first round exit, third round exit)
2008: Wolves --> 2009-2011 Thrashers (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2009 & 2010: Bears --> 2010-2013 Capitals (first round exit, second round exit, second round exit, first round exit)
2011 Senators --> 2012-2013 Senators (first round exit, second round exit)

Out of 9 different calder cup champions we have:

7 seasons out of the playoffs
10 first round exits
5 second round exits
2 third round exits

if you plot that on a graph it looks awfully similar to a bell curve

you can draw your own conclusions from that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dre View Post
Let's now look at how the worst AHL teams compare to their parent clubs in subsequent seasons

2003: Lowell Lock Monster --> 2004-2007 Hurricanes (out of playoffs, no season, Stanley Cup, out of playoffs)
2004: Albany River Rats --> 2005-2008 Devils (no season, 2nd round exit, 2nd round exit, first round exit)
2005 & 2006: Utah Grizzlies & San Antonio Rampage --> 2006-2009 Coyotes (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2007: Senators --> 2008-2010 Senators (first roud exit, out of playoffs, first round exit)
2008: Rochester Americans --> 2009-2011 Sabres (out of playoffs, first round loss, first round loss)
2009 & 2010: Springfield Falcons --> 2010-2013 Oilers (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2011: Albany Devils --> 2012-2013 Devils (Lost in Finals, out of playoffs)

So counting 9 seasons of hockey the results are:

13 seasons of missed playoffs
5 first round exits
2 second round exits
1 Stanley Cup finals loss
1 Stanley Cup

This is not so definitive. Looking at my last two posts, I think we can agree that Calder Cups bring nothing to the NHL team, but being a basement dweller in the AHL shows no organizational depth at all. Hopefully we can pull a 2005 Hurricanes!
great posts. I think people put too much emphasis on having a winning AHL team last year.

Like as it was mentioned, its probably better they get more minutes and maybe assume the role of vets a little quicker than they're supposed to. They'll have plenty of vet presence helping them out in the bigs. It's seemed to work well last year.

I could care less how well the Dogs do compared to how well individual players look when they get called up.

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08-22-2013, 04:51 PM
  #98
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What does these Tokarski/Mayer signings means for Jacob Gervais-Chouinard? We just signed him as an overager from the Q. He was really good in Sherbrooke.

His stats shown he looked all right in his three games stint with Hamilton last year.

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08-22-2013, 05:37 PM
  #99
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What does these Tokarski/Mayer signings means for Jacob Gervais-Chouinard? We just signed him as an overager from the Q. He was really good in Sherbrooke.
We did not sign him.

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08-22-2013, 06:31 PM
  #100
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What does these Tokarski/Mayer signings means for Jacob Gervais-Chouinard? We just signed him as an overager from the Q. He was really good in Sherbrooke.

His stats shown he looked all right in his three games stint with Hamilton last year.
Joel Gervais-Chouinard his older brother a defenceman was signed and Jacob has been invited to training camp I believe. So it's possible they may both earn two-way AHL/ECHL contracts depending upon Jacob's play at the Habs training camp. Matt Grassi is another Defenceman that plays a defensive defenceman's game and may be a good signing after a career @ Michigan State Univ. Hamilton will be a much better team this year IMO.


Last edited by S Bah: 08-22-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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