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If Del Zotto is healthy, how many goals will he score in an offensive system?

View Poll Results: HEALTHY DEL ZOTTO..in AV's SYSTEM....how many goals?
0-2 6 5.13%
3-6 8 6.84%
7-8 19 16.24%
9 13 11.11%
10+ 71 60.68%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-19-2013, 03:28 PM
  #126
ColonialsHockey10
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
I'm hoping you guys realize this thread is a parody, by the way.
Intended as a parody.*

Still not exempt from ridiculous posts.

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08-19-2013, 03:29 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Intended as a parody.*

Still not exempt from ridiculous posts.
No thread ever is.

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08-19-2013, 03:30 PM
  #128
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it was definitely coaching, but not about our lack of offense from our d, but more about their offense from their D.

we collapse everything down low and give the points away for free. Krug was just wailing away at one timers. Its a dumb strategy to use because it just locks you in your own zone unles syou can block the shot, have the puck in front of you, and skate it out.

never was a fan of that mentality.
That too.

I agree with how CH10 described it. There was no coherent 5-man unit on the ice, ever. It popped up every once in a while, but the way Tortorella implemented his breakout, it prevented it from popping up more than on rare occasions.

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08-19-2013, 03:32 PM
  #129
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No thread ever is.
Does a bear **** in the woods.

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Old
08-19-2013, 05:39 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Boston had one offensively oriented defenseman during that series, and that was a rookie Krug who produced one point in 10 games after scoring four goals and five points against the Rangers.

The culprit? Coaching. Yes, coaching. I know it's everyone's go-to factor, but I've been on Tortorella for the lack of usage of the blueline's speed since the beginning of the season. He was terrible with the defense offensively. Do you honestly think Boston's blueline is that much more offensively capable than the Rangers? If you do, you're being overly negative.
god. this entire post. I stand by the fact that Krug isn't that good, he was just given free will to take one timers, which is why Mike Green led the Caps in scoring during that series.

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08-19-2013, 06:12 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
I'm hoping you guys realize this thread is a parody, by the way.
I do, but I don't think the majority of these predictions are sarcastic.

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Old
08-19-2013, 08:25 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
So what I got from this post is that Del Zotto should stop working on his defense, and go back to the perennial liability that can run a power play?
Not even close.

What you should have gotten from my post is that MDZ was supposed to be an offensive force. He has not been that. His defensive game ain't much either.

If he isn't going to become an offensive force, he is a waste of a roster spot that could be better filled by a legitimate offensive defenseman.

Hope that cleared up the confusion.

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08-19-2013, 08:27 PM
  #133
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Not even close.

What you should have gotten from my post is that MDZ was supposed to be an offensive force. He has not been that. His defensive game ain't much either.

If he isn't going to become an offensive force, he is a waste of a roster spot that could be better filled by a legitimate offensive defenseman.

Hope that cleared up the confusion.
You seriously think a 35-40 pt two way defenseman is a "waste of a roster spot"? I don't care about the context of the debate, that's a ridiculous claim.

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08-19-2013, 08:31 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Boston had one offensively oriented defenseman during that series, and that was a rookie Krug who produced one point in 10 games after scoring four goals and five points against the Rangers.

The culprit? Coaching. Yes, coaching. I know it's everyone's go-to factor, but I've been on Tortorella for the lack of usage of the blueline's speed since the beginning of the season. He was terrible with the defense offensively. Do you honestly think Boston's blueline is that much more offensively capable than the Rangers? If you do, you're being overly negative.
Most of the the Bruins defensemen contributed offensively in that series, as well.

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08-19-2013, 08:33 PM
  #135
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Most of the the Bruins defensemen contributed offensively in that series, as well.
Yes, they did, and that was because of Tortorella's collapsing style that Julien exploited to a ridiculous extent.

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08-19-2013, 08:33 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Boston had one offensively oriented defenseman during that series, and that was a rookie Krug who produced one point in 10 games after scoring four goals and five points against the Rangers.

The culprit? Coaching. Yes, coaching. I know it's everyone's go-to factor, but I've been on Tortorella for the lack of usage of the blueline's speed since the beginning of the season. He was terrible with the defense offensively. Do you honestly think Boston's blueline is that much more offensively capable than the Rangers? If you do, you're being overly negative.
Offensively, Boston's D crushes the Rangers D. Defensively, the Rangers D is better.

MDZ excelled at neither end of the rink.

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08-19-2013, 08:36 PM
  #137
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Offensively, Boston's D crushes the Rangers D.
In what way? One series doesn't make that a true statement. The Rangers defense outproduced Boston's defense during the season.

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08-19-2013, 08:44 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
You seriously think a 35-40 pt two way defenseman is a "waste of a roster spot"? I don't care about the context of the debate, that's a ridiculous claim.
I am dead serious. If a team has no offensive threat from the back line they are playing at a severe disadvantage in today's game.

You can blame Krug's performance on poor coaching if you want, but no Ranger D could have done the same if confronted with the same system.

While Chara's defensive game has declined, his offensive game is still better than any Rangers counterpart. They also have Hamilton who looks like he might become a good one.

If the Rangers didn't already have Staal, Girardi, and McD, MDZ would be an okay option. With those players being here, MDZ has to produce offense, or no one will.

I do believe that McD might become that, though, and if he does, he will be a player that would be difficult to trade for any defenseman in the entire league.

Maybe MDZ will become that, but so far he is a disappointment. Anyone who saw him a few years ago assumed he would have become more of a force by now. Maybe under a new system, he will become that. If he doesn't, he should be sent elsewhere for something of more value to the team.

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08-19-2013, 08:46 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Yes, they did, and that was because of Tortorella's collapsing style that Julien exploited to a ridiculous extent.
Chara hasn't excelled offensively against every system?

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08-19-2013, 08:47 PM
  #140
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Chara hasn't excelled offensively against every system?
He's never really "excelled" offensively, he's been an elite level defensive player with a very solid offensive game (40-45 pts).

I'm talking about players like Boychuk, Ference, McQuaid, and Seidenberg. Those players aren't any more offensively talented than McDonagh, Staal, Del Zotto, Stralman, or Moore. They're defensively oriented players.

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08-19-2013, 09:44 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Offensively, Boston's D crushes the Rangers D. Defensively, the Rangers D is better.

MDZ excelled at neither end of the rink.
you're joking right? Outside of Chara (which really all he has is a hard shot and a long reach), there is no d-man on the Bruins that is offensively capable (and no Hamilton and Krug don't count because of their potential) . They all have hard shots, that's it. Rangers D crushes the Bruins' offensively any day.

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08-19-2013, 09:48 PM
  #142
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At least part of the reason why the Rangers defense kept collapsing towards the goal was they couldn't handle players like Lucic crashing their net--couldn't move them away. Rangers didn't have that kind of presence in front of the Bruins net. The Bruins were just a bigger and more physical team. Chara moves people out of the way--same with Boynton and McQuaid. When Lucic went to the net he stayed there and that created a lot of havoc.

DZ played poorly throughout that series--and he's certainly not an imposing physical player. Once again 40 points is not enough for a principal point man on your power play over an 82 game schedule--not if you're going to have a good pwp. He needs to up the production. He's got to make plays--his shot needs to be dangerous enough to keep goalies from cheating on him. And once again he's not a d-man I'd put out on the ice in the last minute of a game to protect a lead. McDonagh--yep. Staal--that's fine too. Girardi--yep. Even Stralman in a pinch. Personally I don't want to go into next off season and he's put up another 35-40 point effort and see him bringing in a $4 mil per year contract for several years. He's not going to deserve more $ unless he produces more offense. It shouldn't be his defense that scores him the $'s.

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08-19-2013, 09:52 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
you're joking right? Outside of Chara (which really all he has is a hard shot and a long reach), there is no d-man on the Bruins that is offensively capable (and no Hamilton and Krug don't count because of their potential) . They all have hard shots, that's it. Rangers D crushes the Bruins' offensively any day.
Krug showed a hell of a lot more in that series than DZ did--not only scoring goals--bringing the mail up the ice--making plays. He was dangerous practically every shift. Not that I don't expect he'll come back down to earth but that's the way that series went.

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08-19-2013, 10:07 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Krug showed a hell of a lot more in that series than DZ did--not only scoring goals--bringing the mail up the ice--making plays. He was dangerous practically every shift. Not that I don't expect he'll come back down to earth but that's the way that series went.
because Torts employed collapsing down low, which gave defensemen all the time in the world to shoot and plenty of space. We made Johnny Boychuk look like an all star with the looks he was getting. I'm not comparing Krug to DZ (even tho DZ is FAR superior in all aspects of his game) I'm comparing the teams defenses. Krug has some moves but he looks very average when the points are being properly covered. He actually looked really bad as the playoffs went on.

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08-19-2013, 10:13 PM
  #145
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It wasn't just Boston people.

There's a reason Gryba's jersey is retired in MSG already.

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08-20-2013, 03:37 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Krug showed a hell of a lot more in that series than DZ did--not only scoring goals--bringing the mail up the ice--making plays. He was dangerous practically every shift. Not that I don't expect he'll come back down to earth but that's the way that series went.

Did you miss that bit about the hernia? Just as an FYI, walking with a hernia is painful. Playing hockey with one is quite a bit more so.

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08-20-2013, 08:10 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
you're joking right? Outside of Chara (which really all he has is a hard shot and a long reach).....


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08-20-2013, 08:26 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
you're joking right? Outside of Chara (which really all he has is a hard shot and a long reach), there is no d-man on the Bruins that is offensively capable (and no Hamilton and Krug don't count because of their potential) . They all have hard shots, that's it. Rangers D crushes the Bruins' offensively any day.
We all agre that in net the Rangers crush Boston. If you believe that the Rangers D crushes Boston's D offensively, I assume that you believe that the biggest difference in the series was coaching, lime the other guy does.

This also means that you must believe that since we have tossed the bad coach and put in a good one, that the Rangers should win the Cup this year, otherwise your theory makes little sense to me.

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08-20-2013, 08:29 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
He's never really "excelled" offensively, he's been an elite level defensive player with a very solid offensive game (40-45 pts).

I'm talking about players like Boychuk, Ference, McQuaid, and Seidenberg. Those players aren't any more offensively talented than McDonagh, Staal, Del Zotto, Stralman, or Moore. They're defensively oriented players.
Do you believe MDZ is a better offensive D than Chara?

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08-20-2013, 08:53 AM
  #150
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The problem with Del Zotto is between his ears. His game has the propensity to fall off a cliff at any moment and he has trouble recovering from that type of adversity.

The good news is hes still young and could still mature. This season is very important for him, regarding his future with the Rangers.

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