HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Arpon's Top 10 on NHL.Com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-20-2013, 07:48 AM
  #1
Matteus
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 152
vCash: 500
Arpon's Top 10 on NHL.Com

I looked around to see if that had already been posted and couldn't see it, so here it is:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=680439

Matteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 08:28 AM
  #2
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,981
vCash: 500
The top-6 of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg, Fucale, De La Rose, and McCarron is probably everybody's top 6. We'd disagree on the order, but I think nearly all of us would have these as the top-6 prospects. It's what comes after that surprises me.

Basu selects Bournival, Bozon, Dietz, Hudon as 7,8,9,10. I don't get the love for Bournival or for Dumont for that matter... we have a potential forward shorter than 6 feet with 4th line upside who can play on the 3rd line when better players are injured, so what?

Louis Leblanc and Greg Pateryn are curious omissions from the top-10.

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 08:50 AM
  #3
Sam I Am
Registered User
 
Sam I Am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,443
vCash: 500
This is Arpon's Top 10:

Beaulieu
Tinordi
Collberg
Fucale
De La Rose
McCarron
Bournival
Bozon
Dietz
Hudon

Off the top of my head, Tinordi is way closer to the NHL than Beaulieu. And I'd slot in Nygren in the 7th slot. Everybody seems to forget this guy...dunno why. And what about Thomas?

IMO it should go something like this:


Tinordi
Beaulieu
Collberg
De La Rose
McCarron
Fucale
Nygren
Hudon
Thomas
Pateryn


Last edited by Sam I Am: 08-20-2013 at 09:27 AM.
Sam I Am is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 08:59 AM
  #4
Impossible Glory
Registered User
 
Impossible Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: North Shore
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The top-6 of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg, Fucale, De La Rose, and McCarron is probably everybody's top 6. We'd disagree on the order, but I think nearly all of us would have these as the top-6 prospects. It's what comes after that surprises me.

Basu selects Bournival, Bozon, Dietz, Hudon as 7,8,9,10. I don't get the love for Bournival or for Dumont for that matter... we have a potential forward shorter than 6 feet with 4th line upside who can play on the 3rd line when better players are injured, so what?

Louis Leblanc and Greg Pateryn are curious omissions from the top-10.
Thomas looks like a bigger omission to me than these guys, given that he has a higher potential than arguably everybody from 7 to 10 and the 2 guys you mentionned. Also, I believe he is closer to being an NHLer than these guys. This obivously just my opinion though.

Impossible Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 09:00 AM
  #5
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matteus View Post
I looked around to see if that had already been posted and couldn't see it, so here it is:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=680439
Top 10 looks very solid.

Monctonscout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 09:00 AM
  #6
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossible Glory View Post
Thomas looks like a bigger omission to me than these guys, given that he has a higher potential than arguably everybody from 7 to 10 and the 2 guys you mentionned. Also, I believe he is closer to being an NHLer than these guys. This obivously just my opinion though.
I had the feeling I was forgetting someone :-)

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 10:44 AM
  #7
FrontierPsyCHiatrist*
Master Pleks
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,735
vCash: 500
Just add Galchenyuk and Gallagher to that list...

FrontierPsyCHiatrist* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 10:49 AM
  #8
Naoned
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Naoned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Nantes, France
Country: France
Posts: 1,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The top-6 of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg, Fucale, De La Rose, and McCarron is probably everybody's top 6. We'd disagree on the order, but I think nearly all of us would have these as the top-6 prospects. It's what comes after that surprises me.

Basu selects Bournival, Bozon, Dietz, Hudon as 7,8,9,10. I don't get the love for Bournival or for Dumont for that matter... we have a potential forward shorter than 6 feet with 4th line upside who can play on the 3rd line when better players are injured, so what?

Louis Leblanc and Greg Pateryn are curious omissions from the top-10.
Just a gut feeling, but I'm pretty sure Leblanc will have a good year and reclaim a top prospect status soon. A year from now, he'll be either back on our top 10 prospect list, or with the Habs.
A lot of people are writing him off way too early.

Naoned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 10:51 AM
  #9
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 24,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Louis Leblanc and Greg Pateryn are curious omissions from the top-10.
Leblanc... maybe. Pateryn? I think he has run-of-the-mill AHL journeyman written all over him.

Ohashi_Jouzu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 11:44 AM
  #10
Big Lurk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Leblanc... maybe. Pateryn? I think he has run-of-the-mill AHL journeyman written all over him.
how come? I thought he looked solid, not outstanding, but solid in his nhl games, the type of dman we didnt have. (just asking).

Big Lurk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #11
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 24,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lurk View Post
how come? I thought he looked solid, not outstanding, but solid in his nhl games, the type of dman we didnt have. (just asking).
He seems 1/2 step behind at all times. Hangs in there, no doubt, and can battle, but even at the AHL level he looks slow reacting and closing space to me. Really, really pedestrian puck skills, too. He's a collection of average skills that - even in aggregate - just doesn't amount to an NHLer in my book. More than 6 mins/night, against some of the better players in the league, and I think he'd get eaten for breakfast. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pateryn we see right now is the absolute best version that anyone sees over the rest of his career, and he doesn't look any closer to "graduation" to me.

Ohashi_Jouzu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 12:05 PM
  #12
Redux91
I do Three bullets.
 
Redux91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,976
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Redux91 Send a message via MSN to Redux91
i think he absolutely nailed our top 10 , make thomas #11

Redux91 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 12:24 PM
  #13
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,242
vCash: 500
IMO the list gives too much weight to draft position, but the writeups are solid.

"Here are Montreal's top 10 prospects, according to NHL.com" - does that mean it's Basu's list, or a composite from a few writers' lists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
He seems 1/2 step behind at all times. Hangs in there, no doubt, and can battle, but even at the AHL level he looks slow reacting and closing space to me. Really, really pedestrian puck skills, too. He's a collection of average skills that - even in aggregate - just doesn't amount to an NHLer in my book. More than 6 mins/night, against some of the better players in the league, and I think he'd get eaten for breakfast. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pateryn we see right now is the absolute best version that anyone sees over the rest of his career, and he doesn't look any closer to "graduation" to me.
I agree with this, unfortunately. Hopefully Pateryn has a developmental burst left, but this point I don't think it's reasonable to expect.

Roulin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 04:39 PM
  #14
jedimyrmidon
Registered User
 
jedimyrmidon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 618
vCash: 500
Been looking at EotP's Top 25 under Top 25, which is an interesting feature.

I have a feeling many of the members on the panel voting don't really know a lot about the prospects though. They have Fucale rather low (at #22), Thomas (#19) and De La Rose (#18) pretty low with Ellis (#16) being rated higher than all of them.

The thing I like about considering players under 25 is that guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are included in the list, which definitely makes the future look all the more brighter (sadly Price is now too old).

jedimyrmidon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 05:09 PM
  #15
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
Been looking at EotP's Top 25 under Top 25, which is an interesting feature.

I have a feeling many of the members on the panel voting don't really know a lot about the prospects though. They have Fucale rather low (at #22), Thomas (#19) and De La Rose (#18) pretty low with Ellis (#16) being rated higher than all of them.

The thing I like about considering players under 25 is that guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are included in the list, which definitely makes the future look all the more brighter (sadly Price is now too old).
www.habseyesontheprize.com has a top 25 under 25 going right now. It's my favorite habs site. Really intelligent people there.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 05:37 PM
  #16
jedimyrmidon
Registered User
 
jedimyrmidon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
www.habseyesontheprize.com has a top 25 under 25 going right now. It's my favorite habs site. Really intelligent people there.
Haha, yeah, EotP = Eyes on the Prize.

Smart people, yeah. Just not convinced that many of the members on the voting panel for the Top 25 under 25 have seen too much of the Habs prospects compared to some here on HFBoards, i.e., have been paying attention to their development before they were drafted/acquired by the Habs, which affects the rankings.

In terms of site opinions, it's great that they're skeptical about having a big team for the sake of having a big team, or about having too many grinders. At the same time, I think they underrate the role that players like Brandon Prust play on the team, and are almost dismissive of the need for character, grit and toughness.

And God forbid you disagree with something they write... As much as they are intelligent and enjoy debating, I find any sort of 'discussion' often devolves very quickly into something that can hardly be considered 'discussing'. I am under the clear impression that this is due to an often arrogant/abrasive way of communicating, and not because they are always right and the other side just can't accept it without being sore about it. I have seen other people write posts refuting someone else's point of view without it devolving into finger pointing and aggressive debating.

jedimyrmidon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 05:44 PM
  #17
Big Lurk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
He seems 1/2 step behind at all times. Hangs in there, no doubt, and can battle, but even at the AHL level he looks slow reacting and closing space to me. Really, really pedestrian puck skills, too. He's a collection of average skills that - even in aggregate - just doesn't amount to an NHLer in my book. More than 6 mins/night, against some of the better players in the league, and I think he'd get eaten for breakfast. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pateryn we see right now is the absolute best version that anyone sees over the rest of his career, and he doesn't look any closer to "graduation" to me.
Thanks for the insight! And thats why I love HF.

Big Lurk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 05:58 PM
  #18
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
Haha, yeah, EotP = Eyes on the Prize.

Smart people, yeah. Just not convinced that many of the members on the voting panel for the Top 25 under 25 have seen too much of the Habs prospects compared to some here on HFBoards, i.e., have been paying attention to their development before they were drafted/acquired by the Habs, which affects the rankings.

In terms of site opinions, it's great that they're skeptical about having a big team for the sake of having a big team, or about having too many grinders. At the same time, I think they underrate the role that players like Brandon Prust play on the team, and are almost dismissive of the need for character, grit and toughness.

And God forbid you disagree with something they write... As much as they are intelligent and enjoy debating, I find any sort of 'discussion' often devolves very quickly into something that can hardly be considered 'discussing'. I am under the clear impression that this is due to an often arrogant/abrasive way of communicating, and not because they are always right and the other side just can't accept it without being sore about it. I have seen other people write posts refuting someone else's point of view without it devolving into finger pointing and aggressive debating.
Derp. not sure how I missed that. And man, this is me before I start my 50+ hour week

I've never seen them get into disagreements, so I can't comment. I think most people will interpret the 'by the numbers' mentality as being elitist or pretentious, which I can understand.

I don't really know all their writers, but Berkshire, Cooper and Rice are my favorites.

As for toughness, sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't. A micro-stats approach doesn't discount toughness as being useless in the same way it doesn't really discount passing. It just bypasses those things and tries to express whether player, regardless of toughness, for example, is a positive or negative influence on his team and it's ability to keep control of the puck. It's a great tool for seeing the 'what' and not necessarily the 'how', imo. That's where actually watching the hockey and matching it up to any statistical analysis is imperative.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 06:36 PM
  #19
jedimyrmidon
Registered User
 
jedimyrmidon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post

I've never seen them get into disagreements, so I can't comment. I think most people will interpret the 'by the numbers' mentality as being elitist or pretentious, which I can understand.

I don't really know all their writers, but Berkshire, Cooper and Rice are my favorites.
Disagreements happen in the Comments section. In fact, you can see one in the Ellis article posted today.

jedimyrmidon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 06:38 PM
  #20
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
Disagreements happen in the Comments section. In fact, you can see one in the Ellis article posted today.
Ah, I thought you meant on twitter. Gonna check that out.

On reading 90% of the comments section under Marc Dumont's article, I still don't really see what you mean. The writer handled all comments with class and intelligence and other writers even came in and offered their viewpoints. TBH I felt like I was at the mensa of comment sections compared with..uhh... the other places on the internet where I observe arguing hockey fans.


Last edited by overlords: 08-20-2013 at 06:45 PM.
overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 07:39 PM
  #21
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,651
vCash: 500
From thehabseyesontheprize:

POLL
Should the Habs offer sheet Kadri?

79% Yes, if only to piss off the Leafs
(111 votes)
21% No
(30 votes)
141 votes total

Frozenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2013, 08:44 PM
  #22
jedimyrmidon
Registered User
 
jedimyrmidon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Ah, I thought you meant on twitter. Gonna check that out.

On reading 90% of the comments section under Marc Dumont's article, I still don't really see what you mean. The writer handled all comments with class and intelligence and other writers even came in and offered their viewpoints. TBH I felt like I was at the mensa of comment sections compared with..uhh... the other places on the internet where I observe arguing hockey fans.
Alright, fair enough.

I agree that most of the time the discussions are quite good, and the average poster there is more likely to engage in these discussions without it becoming a flame war.

Another thing I like about that site: they definitely root for the Habs unlike many other sites where they supposedly cheer for the Habs, but also rip every player that doesn't fight, win an NHL award and the Stanley Cup to shreds.

jedimyrmidon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.