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If Del Zotto is healthy, how many goals will he score in an offensive system?

View Poll Results: HEALTHY DEL ZOTTO..in AV's SYSTEM....how many goals?
0-2 6 5.13%
3-6 8 6.84%
7-8 19 16.24%
9 13 11.11%
10+ 71 60.68%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-20-2013, 09:14 AM
  #151
Off Sides
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Chara, Boychuk have better shots than any of the Rangers D. Krug mostly just had plenty of space.

Del Zotto does not have any real specific attribute that wows anyone. His best play comes by taking the puck from near his blue line to the neutral zone and giving it to someone else who can take it into the zone and go to the net. He is capable of making good transition plays as long as he skates the puck instead of just throwing it up ice.

Rangers were collapsing because they did not force the opposition into mistakes often enough, did not knock players off the puck very well and did not win enough board battles in their own zone. They relied on sticks in the passing lane, positioning and gap control which is good, but it's not going to cut it when the opposing teams game plan is to get the puck deep, win a battle and get it back to the point for a shot.

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08-20-2013, 09:21 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The problem with Del Zotto is between his ears. His game has the propensity to fall off a cliff at any moment and he has trouble recovering from that type of adversity.

The good news is hes still young and could still mature. This season is very important for him, regarding his future with the Rangers.
yes, his on ice awareness needs improvement. hes prone to some wtf plays and sometimes seems to lose his confidence.

he would be one heck of a player if he could skate a little faster.

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08-20-2013, 09:37 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
yes, his on ice awareness needs improvement. hes prone to some wtf plays and sometimes seems to lose his confidence.

he would be one heck of a player if he could skate a little faster.
I've seen this said about so many players. How difficult is it, at MDZ's age, to learn to become a better skater? I imagine it's an issue of having to delegate your training time over a lot of things and having the same stride for years is difficult to change as a matter of habit.

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08-20-2013, 10:05 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
yes, his on ice awareness needs improvement. hes prone to some wtf plays and sometimes seems to lose his confidence.

he would be one heck of a player if he could skate a little faster.
I don't think ice awareness can be improved unless you are a young kid. The theory of chunking explains this stuff beautifully. The best at any sport see it all as a big picture. The rest don't.

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08-20-2013, 10:06 AM
  #155
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With all this talk on the boards/blogs about the new coaches explosive offense system and supposedly new improved power play I swear Del Zotto should get 25 goals and lead all defenders in points. :-)

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08-20-2013, 10:25 AM
  #156
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I don't think ice awareness can be improved unless you are a young kid. The theory of chunking explains this stuff beautifully. The best at any sport see it all as a big picture. The rest don't.
wayne gretzky

smallish frame. not really fast. not much of a 2 way player.

but that dude was freakish in his ability to see and feel the game. he saw things before they happened. watch some old gretzky stuff. its weird how good he really was at controlling the game.

i think all the truly great players share this one trait.

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08-20-2013, 10:50 AM
  #157
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We all agre that in net the Rangers crush Boston. If you believe that the Rangers D crushes Boston's D offensively, I assume that you believe that the biggest difference in the series was coaching, lime the other guy does.

This also means that you must believe that since we have tossed the bad coach and put in a good one, that the Rangers should win the Cup this year, otherwise your theory makes little sense to me.
Where did any of this come from.........I'm just stating facts. The Bruins are a great defensive team, but their team's defense is simply not as offensively capable as the Rangers'! Chara is the only one with any hope of putting up 40+ points, I'll give Boychuk that he has a hard shot but that isn't everything, not at all. Where's YOUR proof that their D is more offensively capable?

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08-20-2013, 10:59 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
Where did any of this come from.........I'm just stating facts. The Bruins are a great defensive team, but their team's defense is simply not as offensively capable as the Rangers'! Chara is the only one with any hope of putting up 40+ points, I'll give Boychuk that he has a hard shot but that isn't everything, not at all. Where's YOUR proof that their D is more offensively capable?
There is no way to prove an opinion. That is why there are so many comments on so many threads. I based my opinion only on that series. In that series their D was far superior to ours on O. That is based on stats and what my eyes told me.

Those of you who dismiss Krug as a guy who had open shots missed something. He put those shots on net. He made some slick passes. He lugged the puck out of his zone and beat pressing forwards. MDZ does not do those things.

About a month ago SI had a great article on chunking that every sports fan should read. Chunking is an amazing thing that explains the difference between good and great. It applies to all sports and even things like chess. If i can locate it I will post a separate thread on it.

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08-20-2013, 11:02 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
There is no way to prove an opinion. That is why there are so many comments on so many threads. I based my opinion only on that series. In that series their D was far superior to ours on O. That is based on stats and what my eyes told me.

Those of you who dismiss Krug as a guy who had open shots missed something. He put those shots on net. He made some slick passes. He lugged the puck out of his zone and beat pressing forwards. MDZ does not do those things.

About a month ago SI had a great article on chunking that every sports fan should read. Chunking is an amazing thing that explains the difference between good and great. It applies to all sports and even things like chess. If i can locate it I will post a separate thread on it.
well that's a pretty big statement to base off one series isn't it? In THAT series, it seemed they were superior. I'm not sold on Krug at all, when the points were properly covered by Chicago and even Pittsburgh, Krug became invisible. He turned the puck over a lot in the Chicago series too. I'm not saying he has no future but he's not this bright budding superstar some people call him...

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08-20-2013, 11:11 AM
  #160
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This the same Boston defense that just embarrassed us a few months ago? Maybe our defense will open up some under AV, but let's wait and see if that happens, rather than assume it will. Who do we have like Torey Krug? Regardless of sample size, do we actually have a defensemen with those qualities?

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08-20-2013, 11:13 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
There is no way to prove an opinion. That is why there are so many comments on so many threads. I based my opinion only on that series. In that series their D was far superior to ours on O. That is based on stats and what my eyes told me.

Those of you who dismiss Krug as a guy who had open shots missed something. He put those shots on net. He made some slick passes. He lugged the puck out of his zone and beat pressing forwards. MDZ does not do those things.
I agree with much of what you are saying, but I also attribute some of that whole series coming down to the Rangers trying to beat Boston by playing like Boston, yet Boston is built to play like Boston better than the Rangers are.

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08-20-2013, 11:15 AM
  #162
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This the same Boston defense that just embarrassed us a few months ago? Maybe our defense will open up some under AV, but let's wait and see if that happens, rather than assume it will. Who do we have like Torey Krug? Regardless of sample size, do we actually have a defensemen with those qualities?
Jeez and people say we overrate our own players. Torey Krug had one good SERIES, not even the whole playoffs, there was one series in which he was good. Even if our defense doesn't open up at all it's still better than Boston's offensively......what are you missing. Chara is the only point producer, the rest of them can't even be counted on for 20. Meanwhile in Ranger land Ever d-man can/probably will put up 20 points (maybe not Moore but you get it). And if we're comparing our D to Krug.......McD and MDZ are so far better offensive dmen than him, so yeah we do have players like him. Also, one series doesn't make a team. If it did, Pittsburgh would be a lottery team after the way they bowed out of the playoffs the last two years. And we know they aren't.

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08-20-2013, 11:18 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
Where did any of this come from.........I'm just stating facts. The Bruins are a great defensive team, but their team's defense is simply not as offensively capable as the Rangers'!
Might be time for you to revisit the definition of fact.


Last edited by Bleed Ranger Blue: 08-20-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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08-20-2013, 11:21 AM
  #164
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Had to laugh at some of my Bruins friends the way their team blew it in the 6th game of the cup finals.

Even so Chara is a more dangerous offensive player than Del Zotto--and it's not even about point production--if only because of his shot which is ****ing scary. Even if it doesn't go in it can break bones which makes it a psychological weapon. The Rangers don't have a shot from the point like that--not even close.

Lucic is another psychological weapon. Size, strength and mean with a bit of ability. Rangers psychological weapon is Lundqvist--after that they don't have any.

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08-20-2013, 11:33 AM
  #165
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I hope Torey Krug "Chris Kreider's" it up next year just for the lulz

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08-20-2013, 11:34 AM
  #166
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I hope Torey Krug "Chris Kreider's" it up next year just for the lulz
He'll score 4 goals all season, all of them against Vancouver.

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08-20-2013, 12:15 PM
  #167
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I'm not talking about how good he played, I'm talking about the kind of player he is. MDZ and McD aren't goal scoring defensemen. Yes, we have defensemen who can put up average points. Hence our need, is something different. What NYR defensemen do opposing teams worry about, defend against, plan around? Who do we have that the other team doesn't want shooting, regardless of how hard the shot is?

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08-20-2013, 08:27 PM
  #168
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As promised, I posted the article on chunking:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7#post70376367

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08-20-2013, 08:49 PM
  #169
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Between the ears can mean many things.

Del Zotto's offensive and defensive awareness is totally fine. He's just mentally weak. When he's in a funk, he has trouble getting out of it. Maturity will (hopefully) fix that.

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08-20-2013, 08:51 PM
  #170
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Between the ears can mean many things.

Del Zotto's offensive and defensive awareness is totally fine. He's just mentally weak. When he's in a funk, he has trouble getting out of it. Maturity will (hopefully) fix that.
He's not going to be mature until he's 30

Rupp is still a immature piece of **** a lot of the times and that's how DZ will be.

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08-21-2013, 04:52 PM
  #171
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He's not going to be mature until he's 30

Rupp is still a immature piece of **** a lot of the times and that's how DZ will be.
What an odd/random/terrible comparison (please forgive me if I missed on some type of sarcasm).

In what way is Mike Rupp immature? His blow up on Brodeur last season? Everything I've read/heard/seen would indicate that he's a consummate professional. Not to mention he's shown he can handle pressure at the highest level, which is more along the lines of immaturity I'm talking about, which makes the comparison that much more ridiculous.

Del Zotto has confidence issues. He can have long stretches of exceptional hockey, and the complete opposite. John Tortorella being a hard ass didn't make the situation better, considering players have been quoted as saying they were afraid to make mistakes.

God forbid a 23 year old has issues getting comfortable playing at MSG. With time that will certainly get better. Not sure where the magic number 30 came from. He's come a long way in this department already.

That's the problem "between his ears". The fact that some people would mistake this as a lack of offensive and defensive awareness (his awareness is excellent) is frightening.

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08-21-2013, 04:54 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post

Del Zotto does not have any real specific attribute that wows anyone. His best play comes by taking the puck from near his blue line to the neutral zone and giving it to someone else who can take it into the zone and go to the net. He is capable of making good transition plays as long as he skates the puck instead of just throwing it up ice.
Oh, so passing isn't a specific attribute anymore? Because that's what you just described, and it's arguably the most important trait for an offensive defenseman to have. MDZ's passing ability happens to be off the charts.

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08-21-2013, 05:17 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
What an odd/random/terrible comparison (please forgive me if I missed on some type of sarcasm).

In what way is Mike Rupp immature? His blow up on Brodeur last season? Everything I've read/heard/seen would indicate that he's a consummate professional. Not to mention he's shown he can handle pressure at the highest level, which is more along the lines of immaturity I'm talking about, which makes the comparison that much more ridiculous.

Del Zotto has confidence issues. He can have long stretches of exceptional hockey, and the complete opposite. John Tortorella being a hard ass didn't make the situation better, considering players have been quoted as saying they were afraid to make mistakes.

God forbid a 23 year old has issues getting comfortable playing at MSG. With time that will certainly get better. Not sure where the magic number 30 came from. He's come a long way in this department already.

That's the problem "between his ears". The fact that some people would mistake this as a lack of offensive and defensive awareness (his awareness is excellent) is frightening.
He's better in his own end than he was a couple years ago. He's just not accentuated the stronger part of his game--the offense. Whether to blame Torts and staff for that is up to you as whether to give Torts and staff credit for his improvement in his own zone is up to you but both are subjective though I think the improving of his defense less so. Easy to remember the HBO thing last year where Torts singled out Stralman for his compete level using Eminger as an example of a lesser player taking Anton's ice time because he competed harder. Stralman took that critique positively and since has become a better and more competitive player. Obvious even from that that DZ isn't the only one that Torts held to a higher standard.

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08-21-2013, 05:40 PM
  #174
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I'm not talking about how good he played, I'm talking about the kind of player he is. MDZ and McD aren't goal scoring defensemen. Yes, we have defensemen who can put up average points. Hence our need, is something different. What NYR defensemen do opposing teams worry about, defend against, plan around? Who do we have that the other team doesn't want shooting, regardless of how hard the shot is?
He scored 9 in 2009 and 10 in 2011. If he ever does put it together consistently, how is he not "that kind of player"?.. How many goals do you expect from one defenseman?

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08-21-2013, 05:47 PM
  #175
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He scored 9 in 2009 and 10 in 2011. If he ever does put it together consistently, how is he not "that kind of player"?.. How many goals do you expect from one defenseman?
moar.

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