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Old
11-08-2006, 09:24 AM
  #1
piston
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An Observation

Kopitar leads all Kings forwards in ice time. Does anyone here think this would be happening if Andy Murray was coach?

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Old
11-08-2006, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piston View Post
Kopitar leads all Kings forwards in ice time. Does anyone here think this would be happening if Andy Murray was coach?
By the way, if any, though I'm sure nobody does.... , is wondering where the heck is Andy Murray these days.....he's working with the Habs as a Pro scout or something like that...

If I may, I can't answer that particular question, but what would Murray do with the goaltending issue in LA? I can't believe Crawford persist by giving the net to Cloutier while Garon has been quite good so far and Cloutier almost lost that one yesterday.

Theodore was seemingly bad yesterday and got yanked for it, though Cloutier was so bad, he succeeded in giving.....Budaj a loss.......Why the obsession over Cloutier, sure they acquired him but, time to move on and actually play the one who has a better chance of giving you win, isn't suppose to be that way????

My 2 cents from far far away.....

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Old
11-08-2006, 10:01 AM
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sigepcsun
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Originally Posted by piston View Post
Kopitar leads all Kings forwards in ice time. Does anyone here think this would be happening if Andy Murray was coach?
Murray, ironically with all of his youth experience, never did figure out how to effectively develop and use his youth. IMO he deserves some of the blame for the rather slow development of Dustin Brown and Alex Frolov. (I know they are both young, but it appears sometimes their knowledge and understanding of the game lacks)

It seems like yesterday virtually EVERYONE on this board was screaming for Murray and JVB to use those 2 on the power play. Crow appears willing to take chances with some of the youth, and albeit he knows he is in a rebuilding period, and can afford to take the good with the bad. I have high hopes for the overall development of Kopitar and I believe that Sully will eventually learn the NHL game as well.

I wish AM success in his endeavours, I like the guy as a person, but I much prefer to see Crow coaching our youth, I am not saying he's perfect, but he appears to be better suited to teaching our youth than Murray.

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11-08-2006, 10:18 AM
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The mitchrock
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Originally Posted by piston View Post
Kopitar leads all Kings forwards in ice time. Does anyone here think this would be happening if Andy Murray was coach?
Nope, he'd be in Manchester.

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Old
11-08-2006, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigepcsun View Post
Murray, ironically with all of his youth experience, never did figure out how to effectively develop and use his youth. IMO he deserves some of the blame for the rather slow development of Dustin Brown and Alex Frolov. (I know they are both young, but it appears sometimes their knowledge and understanding of the game lacks)
really?
frolov
2002-03 Los Angeles NHL 79 14 17 31 +12
2003-04 Los Angeles NHL 77 24 24 48 +8
lockout
2005-06 Los Angeles NHL 69 21 33 54 +17

yeah, what on earth was murray doing...

brown, i will happily admit, has not progressed as much as people had hoped, but the jury is still out on him. in murray's defense, i'll bring up another controversial figure--michael cammalleri.
cammalleri
2002-03 Los Angeles NHL 28 5 3 8 -4
2003-04 Los Angeles NHL 31 9 6 15 +1
lockout
2005-06 Los Angeles NHL 80 26 29 55 -14
again, he seems to have turned out just fine. you can say whatever you want about the pace of a player's development, but saying that this or that player "could have developed faster" is a pretty flimsy criticism, and impossible to prove. what is possible to prove is how these players have turned out after developing under murray, and the bottom line is that both frolov and cammalleri have turned into excellent nhl players, and brown's future, while unclear, is hardly dim. i agree that crawford is a better coach, but going back and claiming that murray "never did figure out how to effectively develop and use his youth" is inaccurate.

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Old
11-08-2006, 11:20 AM
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great, now we are hypothetically blaming AM for things...

he's gone...let it go...

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Old
11-08-2006, 01:33 PM
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Scottkmlps
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Frolov, Brown, & Cammelleri, the past 6-7 games, have played there best hockey that I have seen. Murray might not have slowed their development, but all 3 are now starting to play consistently now. I just get this feeling that Brown is on the verge of busting out.

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Old
11-08-2006, 02:04 PM
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KingPurpleDinosaur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Frolov, Brown, & Cammelleri, the past 6-7 games, have played there best hockey that I have seen. Murray might not have slowed their development, but all 3 are now starting to play consistently now. I just get this feeling that Brown is on the verge of busting out.
haha, I love this quote. You refer to 6-7 games for determining "consistency".


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Old
11-08-2006, 02:11 PM
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Scottkmlps
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
haha, I love this quote. You refer to 6-7 games for determining "consistency".

Yes, because before it would be 1 or 2 games where they played well, then they would disappear for 1 or 2 games. They haven't done that the last 6-7 games, they have played consistently good. Forchecking well, making plays and getting scoring chances. That's what I determine as "consistency".

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Old
11-08-2006, 02:17 PM
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Nope, he'd be in Manchester.
I really miss Andy Murray...

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Old
11-08-2006, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mitchrock View Post
Nope, he'd be in Manchester.
So AM detractors are arguing that AM has a tendency of brining players up too fast (Brown) and also of keeping them in the minors for longer then they're supposed to.

alright...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Yes, because before it would be 1 or 2 games where they played well, then they would disappear for 1 or 2 games. They haven't done that the last 6-7 games, they have played consistently good. Forchecking well, making plays and getting scoring chances. That's what I determine as "consistency".
Nope, sorry, there were many a stretch of games where Frolov and Cammalleri both looked great, and I can guarantee you those stretches were a lot longer then 1-2 games. Wrong.

And, let's say hypothetically, you were right by some far out skewed logic, 6-7 games STILL would not be used to define consistency. Just becuase it's a few games longer then 1-2 games doesn't mean they are more "consistent", the numbers are too small a sample to be used with the word "consistency". So you're wrong there too.

You guys really reach hard to blame AM for anything and everything.

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Old
11-08-2006, 02:47 PM
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Scottkmlps
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
And, let's say hypothetically, you were right by some far out skewed logic, 6-7 games STILL would not be used to define consistency. Just becuase it's a few games longer then 1-2 games doesn't mean they are more "consistent", the numbers are too small a sample to be used with the word "consistency". So you're wrong there too.

You guys really reach hard to blame AM for anything and everything.
When it's only 15-20 games into a season, playing great 6-7 straight games is being consistent.
Never blamed Murray for anything. I said he might not have slowed there development. How is that blaming Murray for anything? I have seen consistent play from the 3 over the last 6-7 games.

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Old
11-08-2006, 02:52 PM
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Hmm hard to say really. All I know is that O'Sullivan wouldn't have gotten nearly as long of look as he did under Crawford.

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Old
11-08-2006, 04:25 PM
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Guy is a moron....I was actually attending Shattuck when he got hired. He was treated like a god there and I could understand it. He likes players to run around and not do anything constuctive, and I wouldnt do it so he hated me. The last pre season game I gave his "son" a little tap on the ice because I was open and he benched me for the next 3 games. And with my luck I left Shattuck that month and the very next summer Murray got hired for the Kings and ruined the next 7 seasons for me. I was so happy that he got fired.

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Old
11-08-2006, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piston View Post
Kopitar leads all Kings forwards in ice time. Does anyone here think this would be happening if Andy Murray was coach?
I didn't like Murray--I'll be honest--but I'm not going sit here and claim that he would be giving him only 10 minutes a night on the 4th line or something. He's not at all so stupid as to not recognize the talent and readiness that Kopitar possesses. I'm sure that Murray would've used him in a top-6 role, given him powerplay time and sung the youngster's praises. Would Anze still be leading all forwards in ice-time, though? That's were I have doubts and where I think that the differences in coaching style between Murray and Crawford begin to become more apparent.

It's not really any mystery why Kopitar's ice-time is so high. It comes down to powerplay, penalty killing, double-shifting and end-game use. As I said, Murray would've given him ample powerplay time, but probably not penalty killing, IMO. Murray had too many favorite "character" guys that he would've used on the penalty kill, instead, either to give them important situations to contribute in or just to save Anze for offensive situations.

Next, though Murray may've double-shifted him now and then, I doubt that it would be at all to the extent that Crawford has. Marc has absolutely no qualms about playing the kid as much as he can handle, whereas I think that Murray would've brought him along more slowly.

Finally, Murray would frequently drop back into a defensive shell when the team had a lead in the 3rd period. He'd ice the "character" and "energy" guys more and cut back on the scorers' ice-time. Crawford, on the other hand, doesn't do that nearly to the same extent, so we see Kopitar getting just as much ice-time in the 3rd as he does in any other period.

So, no, I don't think that Kopitar would be leading forwards in ice-time under Murray, who just did certain things a little differently. That's not to say that Murray would've ruined his development or anything. I still think that Kopitar would've gotten quite a bit of ice-time, but just not enough to lead the team. It's my opinion that the situation for him is a little better under Crawford than it would've been under Murray (not that it would've been bad under Murray, just not quite as good). I'm glad that Crawford is the one bringing him along. It's hard to argue with his success in the past and with the success so far.


Last edited by Osprey: 11-08-2006 at 09:22 PM.
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Old
11-08-2006, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
Guy is a moron....I was actually attending Shattuck when he got hired. He was treated like a god there and I could understand it. He likes players to run around and not do anything constuctive, and I wouldnt do it so he hated me. The last pre season game I gave his "son" a little tap on the ice because I was open and he benched me for the next 3 games. And with my luck I left Shattuck that month and the very next summer Murray got hired for the Kings and ruined the next 7 seasons for me. I was so happy that he got fired.

You sure it wasn't because you told him you made 3 times as much money as him?

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11-08-2006, 10:48 PM
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HEy this is a really stupid question.. Could someone explain Kopitars contract. Or summarize it. When will he be a free agent? 2009. And how much are we going to have to pay him because I'm sure by now he realizes his worth.. but anyways.. if someone could give me the low down that would be great.. thanks

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Old
11-08-2006, 11:18 PM
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HEy this is a really stupid question.. Could someone explain Kopitars contract. Or summarize it. When will he be a free agent? 2009. And how much are we going to have to pay him because I'm sure by now he realizes his worth.. but anyways.. if someone could give me the low down that would be great.. thanks

no he will be a restricted free agent in 2009. His entry level contract did not start until this year.

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Old
11-09-2006, 01:57 AM
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Kopitar would have hated him. He wouldn't have been allowed to wear hats while watching TV

Seriously though, it's hard to say. I think the Kings just didn't know how to properly develop players period, and it stems from something much deeper than Murray. I'm sure he would have played Kopitar, possibly as a first liner. But, I don't think he would double shift Kopitar or throw him on every line just to see how it works.

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Old
11-09-2006, 02:00 AM
  #20
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I just get this feeling that Brown is on the verge of busting out.
I am going to agree with this. He's really stepped his game up.

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