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Understanding the Rebuild

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Old
08-21-2013, 07:06 AM
  #76
Adirondack Flames
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
^^ We downgraded in defense (lost Bouwmeester), offense (lost Iggy and Tangs), and in goalie.

How are we better on paper?

I would wait until we've established a solid core of players before making any crazy "purchases"
I agree on paper we are not better, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be. We lost a couple of top end guys in Bouwmeester and Iginla but we added alot of depth as well. Mix that with the youth hopefully getting a bit better and they may be able to replace those guys by committee.

Kiprusoff on the other hand, who cares. Ramo is unlikely to be as bad as Kiprusoff was last year. I expect improvement between the pipes from what we saw from our "starter" last year.

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08-21-2013, 11:07 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
I agree on paper we are not better, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be. We lost a couple of top end guys in Bouwmeester and Iginla but we added alot of depth as well. Mix that with the youth hopefully getting a bit better and they may be able to replace those guys by committee.

Kiprusoff on the other hand, who cares. Ramo is unlikely to be as bad as Kiprusoff was last year. I expect improvement between the pipes from what we saw from our "starter" last year.
Exactly, people seem to forget how bad kipper was last year. Nothing that will taint his legacy, but he was one of the worst starters in the NHL last season.

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08-21-2013, 12:33 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
I agree on paper we are not better, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be. We lost a couple of top end guys in Bouwmeester and Iginla but we added alot of depth as well. Mix that with the youth hopefully getting a bit better and they may be able to replace those guys by committee.

Kiprusoff on the other hand, who cares. Ramo is unlikely to be as bad as Kiprusoff was last year. I expect improvement between the pipes from what we saw from our "starter" last year.
We were ONLY a playoff-mix team because of Kipper on his good years. It's unlikely that Ramo will be as good as Kipper has been in years past. We were ONLY a play-off mix team because Iginla and Tanguay carried the bulk of the offense and because Bouwmeester carried the bulk of the defense.

Depth is not an alternative to high end talent IMO. Especially when we have no high-end talent ready to go

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08-21-2013, 12:42 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
We were ONLY a playoff-mix team because of Kipper on his good years. It's unlikely that Ramo will be as good as Kipper has been in years past. We were ONLY a play-off mix team because Iginla and Tanguay carried the bulk of the offense and because Bouwmeester carried the bulk of the defense.

Depth is not an alternative to high end talent IMO. Especially when we have no high-end talent ready to go
Ask Phoenix, or Nashville. You can make the playoffs with depth and goaltending. If Ramo is lights out, anything can happen. Iginla carrying the load offensively didn't make a lick of difference when he was ******** the bed defensively more frequently.

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08-21-2013, 12:51 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
We were ONLY a playoff-mix team because of Kipper on his good years. It's unlikely that Ramo will be as good as Kipper has been in years past. We were ONLY a play-off mix team because Iginla and Tanguay carried the bulk of the offense and because Bouwmeester carried the bulk of the defense.

Depth is not an alternative to high end talent IMO. Especially when we have no high-end talent ready to go
Maybe I'm not sure of the context of this discussion. But I was under the assumption that we were comparing how our team will perform this year from last year. Our goaltending will likely be better IMO.

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08-21-2013, 01:11 PM
  #81
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Well the Flames were a bubble 9-11th place team for 3 years while Kipper was playing his unhuman, normal self. So how is Ramo going to push us over the top, with a worse team in front of him?

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08-21-2013, 01:12 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by wflames View Post
Ask Phoenix, or Nashville. You can make the playoffs with depth and goaltending. If Ramo is lights out, anything can happen. Iginla carrying the load offensively didn't make a lick of difference when he was ******** the bed defensively more frequently.
Both had pretty Elite goaltending and defensemen.

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08-21-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Well the Flames were a bubble 9-11th place team for 3 years while Kipper was playing his unhuman, normal self. So how is Ramo going to push us over the top, with a worse team in front of him?
Right now, Kipper is our starter, with Ramo/JoeMac as our backup.

I find it very bizarre the Flames have yet to announce the retirement. He is still on the roster at both CalgaryFlames.com and NHL.com

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08-21-2013, 01:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
Right now, Kipper is our starter, with Ramo/JoeMac as our backup.

I find it very bizarre the Flames have yet to announce the retirement. He is still on the roster at both CalgaryFlames.com and NHL.com
There is nothing strange about it Feaster already said they are leaving the door open in case Kipper changes his mind. They gain nothing by announcing it now, they will wait as long as they can.

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08-21-2013, 05:44 PM
  #85
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To understand the rebuild look at TSN's picture of all the Canadian teams represented by one player for their broadcast schedule.

Ottawa has franchise Center and PPG career player Jason Spezza
Montreal has reining Norris Champion PK Subban
Vancouver has incumbent Canadian Olympic starter Roberto Luongo
Edmonton has rising star and Canadian hero Jordan Eberle
Winnipeg has the gritty two time cup champion and top 20 scorer last year (if I remember correctly) Andrew Ladd
Toronto has the high flying Phil Kessel



Calgary has.... Michael Backlund.


Now I love Mikey, but one of these is not like the other.

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08-21-2013, 05:46 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
We were ONLY a playoff-mix team because of Kipper on his good years. It's unlikely that Ramo will be as good as Kipper has been in years past. We were ONLY a play-off mix team because Iginla and Tanguay carried the bulk of the offense and because Bouwmeester carried the bulk of the defense.

Depth is not an alternative to high end talent IMO. Especially when we have no high-end talent ready to go
Depth can very much replace high end talent. And Tanguay never carried the bulk of anything, he is a complimentary player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Both had pretty Elite goaltending and defensemen.
Bryzgalov and Smith are not elite. The coaching and system make them look elite, much like Kipper while being coached by a Sutter, it covered up for his deficiencies, there is a reason why Kiprusoff was mediocre or worse under every other coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
There is nothing strange about it Feaster already said they are leaving the door open in case Kipper changes his mind. They gain nothing by announcing it now, they will wait as long as they can.
I think they want him to be around for a press conference, but he wants no fan fair.

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08-21-2013, 05:59 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
Depth can very much replace high end talent. And Tanguay never carried the bulk of anything, he is a complimentary player.

Bryzgalov and Smith are not elite. The coaching and system make them look elite, much like Kipper while being coached by a Sutter, it covered up for his deficiencies, there is a reason why Kiprusoff was mediocre or worse under every other coach.

I think they want him to be around for a press conference, but he wants no fan fair.
I think you're probably on the money.

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08-21-2013, 06:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
I think you're probably on the money.
I was also n the money with Alaska

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08-21-2013, 06:24 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wflames View Post
Ask Phoenix, or Nashville. You can make the playoffs with depth and goaltending. If Ramo is lights out, anything can happen. Iginla carrying the load offensively didn't make a lick of difference when he was ******** the bed defensively more frequently.
Could go both ways. Both teams missed the playoffs and Nashville was one of the worst teams in the league (unsure of full context of discussion).

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08-21-2013, 06:28 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
To understand the rebuild look at TSN's picture of all the Canadian teams represented by one player for their broadcast schedule.

Ottawa has franchise Center and PPG career player Jason Spezza
Montreal has reining Norris Champion PK Subban
Vancouver has incumbent Canadian Olympic starter Roberto Luongo
Edmonton has rising star and Canadian hero Jordan Eberle
Winnipeg has the gritty two time cup champion and top 20 scorer last year (if I remember correctly) Andrew Ladd
Toronto has the high flying Phil Kessel



Calgary has.... Michael Backlund.


Now I love Mikey, but one of these is not like the other.
That's cause our expected top guys are our prospects, and as a rebuilding team...just so.

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08-21-2013, 07:15 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
Depth can very much replace high end talent. And Tanguay never carried the bulk of anything, he is a complimentary player.

Bryzgalov and Smith are not elite. The coaching and system make them look elite, much like Kipper while being coached by a Sutter, it covered up for his deficiencies, there is a reason why Kiprusoff was mediocre or worse under every other coach.

I think they want him to be around for a press conference, but he wants no fan fair.
Name one Stanley Cup winner without high end talent?

Bryzgalov was nominated for a Vezina, while Kipper won one. Do you know more that the nomination committee?

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08-21-2013, 09:42 PM
  #92
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I was also n the money with Alaska
Are you the fanblogger??!!

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08-21-2013, 09:43 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Name one Stanley Cup winner without high end talent?

Bryzgalov was nominated for a Vezina, while Kipper won one. Do you know more that the nomination committee?
Carolina when they won had no one that was considered high end, they had young players and depth players that made names for themselves.

and that nomination committee is the pro hockey writers, so yes i do. they are the same idiots who gave Ovechkin 2 spots on the season ending all-star team

besides who the **** is talking about winning a cup this year? we are talking about being better than last year.

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08-21-2013, 09:44 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Are you the fanblogger??!!
no but Abbotsford Heat tweeted that his is better than thefanblogger

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08-21-2013, 10:57 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
Carolina when they won had no one that was considered high end, they had young players and depth players that made names for themselves.

and that nomination committee is the pro hockey writers, so yes i do. they are the same idiots who gave Ovechkin 2 spots on the season ending all-star team

besides who the **** is talking about winning a cup this year? we are talking about being better than last year.
Eric Staal had 45 goals and 100 points in the regular season that year.
That is about as high end as you can find.

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08-21-2013, 11:38 PM
  #96
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Eric Staal had 45 goals and 100 points in the regular season that year.
That is about as high end as you can find.
in his break out season. That cannot be ignore. He played the lockout season in the AHL and the season before had 11 goals and 31 points. No one thought that was a possibility in his sophomore year. After Staal there was a bunch of secondary players (that had good years) and even their defense didn't have any star power. It was the perfect storm.

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08-21-2013, 11:38 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
Carolina when they won had no one that was considered high end, they had young players and depth players that made names for themselves.

and that nomination committee is the pro hockey writers, so yes i do. they are the same idiots who gave Ovechkin 2 spots on the season ending all-star team

besides who the **** is talking about winning a cup this year? we are talking about being better than last year.
I see.

So Ray Whitney and Rob Brind'Amour weren't high end talent veterans? Or are you so narcissistic that you're above the Hall of Fame process too?

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08-21-2013, 11:41 PM
  #98
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I see.

So Ray Whitney and Rob Brind'Amour weren't high end talent veterans? Or are you so narcissistic that you're above the Hall of Fame process too?
A 35 year old Brind'amour was no longer a high end player. He was a good secondary player.

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08-21-2013, 11:43 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
A 35 year old Brind'amour was no longer a high end player. He was a good secondary player.
82 points in 78 games is pretty high end

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08-22-2013, 12:11 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
in his break out season. That cannot be ignore. He played the lockout season in the AHL and the season before had 11 goals and 31 points. No one thought that was a possibility in his sophomore year. After Staal there was a bunch of secondary players (that had good years) and even their defense didn't have any star power. It was the perfect storm.
I suppose that is a fair analysis, although I will say that Eric Staal was the consensus best player available in his draft year and was expected to become a franchise player (as you said probably not that quickly however..)

I agree with you that we won't be much worse (if at all) then we were last year as well. We all know the game is not played on paper..

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