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Douglas Murray signed 1 year deal ($1.5m)

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08-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #351
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
I agree that the Habs outchanced and outshot the Sens. I do think that the Habs, however, were a mess in their own zone and allowed the Sens too much time and space, and lost too many board battles. The Sens were able to take advantage of this, and score on their opportunities.

As for their tendency to give up, that's where I would argue the physical gongshow took its toll on the Habs' psych (that, and the horrible refereeing in Game 4). And where the ability to push back aids immensely (character, grit, etc.).
I'd like to see a goal by goal video of the GA in that series. There were 20 goals against total and I'm sure 7-8 of those were brutal goals given up by the goalies. Budaj alone gave up 3 weak ones in about 65 minutes of play. A couple were flukey goals(kicked in goal and others).

What played against our psych was Anderson making the big saves early in each game and Price/Budaj giving up a bad goal while the game was still undecided.

People conveniently look the huge impact goaltending had on that series to preach a "we need size" agenda. Most Ottawa goals were off the rush and scored by small players...Pageau Condra Turris Karlsson...not by big power forwards in front of the net.

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Old
08-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #352
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Cool. No risk.

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08-22-2013, 03:23 PM
  #353
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Can he be slower than Hal Gill ? I believe that he is a piece of a puzzle. Won't play 23 minutes a game but 15-18, he should be fine and play a role with Parros helping Prust...
Give this a read yes he is slower than Gill.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...155654828.html

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08-22-2013, 03:24 PM
  #354
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Watch Murray show up trimmed down and speed not be an issue at all for him.

He may not fight a ton, but he's a heavyweight when he does.

That means we now have 2 heavyweights, to go along with 3 middle weights.

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08-22-2013, 03:24 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Based on the people counting quality shots on Price, this is not what actually happened against Ottawa. Montreal actually outchanced the Sens by a fair margin, especially with the score fairly close. The big difference in that series was Anderson standing on his head and Price not so much.

The Habs had a nasty tendency to give up when down a couple of goals, but before it got to that point, they were outplaying the Sens handily. This, incidentally, was the exact same scenario as the Flyers-Habs playoffs of 2008, where the Habs dominated everywhere but the crease; if the Flyers used their size to dominate the smaller Habs in that series, there was no sign of it.
No one said the Murray was going to solve all of the Habs problems but to take the focus off what he can contribute and onto the shortcomings of others misses the point entirely. So rather than strictly criticizing the move, why not offer up some solutions that you think would have worked.

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08-22-2013, 03:24 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Compared to Murray Bouillon is an offensive Juggernaught.
Bouillon: 1 G 8A
Murray: 1 G 5A

Wow...

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08-22-2013, 03:25 PM
  #357
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I think the best thing about this signing is it gives us something real to talk about. Even the movie thread was starting to get repetitive

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Old
08-22-2013, 03:25 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Bouillon: 1 G 8A
Murray: 1 G 5A

Wow...
I bet murray gets pp time over emelin.

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08-22-2013, 03:26 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
For entertainment purposes, I'm happy with this move. In the interests of icing a better hockey team, it's a bad move. For my optimism on Bergevin being a quality hockey mind, it's rough.
I could understand this logic if Murray was signed as a building block for the D going forward but is anybody here of the opinion that this is anything more than a couple month stopgap until Emelin comes back?

I don't think this proves anything, good or bad, as far as Marc Bergevin is concerned. Murray might become #7 as soon as December.

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08-22-2013, 03:26 PM
  #360
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08-22-2013, 03:26 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Give this a read yes he is slower than Gill.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...155654828.html
he is not slower then hal gill, try again there bud

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08-22-2013, 03:32 PM
  #362
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So they preferred someone else and let him go.
Right. Which, again, is not necessarily a condemnation of how Murray played for them. If you can upgrade one player with an objectively better one...you do it.

Quote:
Trade deadline value is never a good representation of how good a player actually is. I mean, Hal Gill fetched us a 2nd. Hal freaking Gill, a 2nd round pick...
Paul Gaustad got a 1st..

I wouldn't that much weight on Murray bringing in two 2nd rounders. Deadline trades bring in ridiculous high returns in many cases.
At no point did I say "Murray brought back 2 second rounders, so he must be awesome!" even though that's what you're arguing against.

I'm simply saying that a hockey mind considerably more celebrated than a Sharks blogger saw enough value in Murray to give up a considerable amount for him because he thought he could help his team at the time. Which, personally, is enough reassurance that Murray can still bring value to a hockey team and enough to reinforce my belief that maybe numbers, contrary to the "evidence" MathMan posted that I was responding to, aren't always everything.

All you're looking for in a deal like this is value. If what Murray brings can outweigh his noted shortcomings, it's good value.

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08-22-2013, 03:33 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Breadman View Post
he is not slower then hal gill, try again there bud
I'd say he's a bit slower than the hal gill we had. Haven't seen much of gill since then, though.

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Old
08-22-2013, 03:34 PM
  #364
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I'm ready to see Murray avoid other heavy like if it was a ITS

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08-22-2013, 03:35 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'd like to see a goal by goal video of the GA in that series. There were 20 goals against total and I'm sure 7-8 of those were brutal goals given up by the goalies. Budaj alone gave up 3 weak ones in about 65 minutes of play. A couple were flukey goals(kicked in goal and others).

What played against our psych was Anderson making the big saves early in each game and Price/Budaj giving up a bad goal while the game was still undecided.

People conveniently look the huge impact goaltending had on that series to preach a "we need size" agenda. Most Ottawa goals were off the rush and scored by small players...Pageau Condra Turris Karlsson...not by big power forwards in front of the net.
Personally, my agenda isn't a 'need size' agenda. It's a need 'physicality and grit on the back end' agenda that would address some systematic shortcomings I think the team has. In other words, I don't think the goaltending is the main aspect where the Habs faltered in the playoffs. I think Price was left out to dry far too often.

Your point where you said most goals were scored by small forwards does support this idea of a systematic failure: the Habs just let anyone walk in, no one was knocking anyone off the puck, separating anyone from the puck. The Swarm meant that someone entering the zone was inevitably left uncovered and given the time to place a good shot because they also couldn't win any board battles. If you looked at the Habs, they were definitely being kept at bay in the offensive zone, having to shoot from all over the ice, not being given that much time and space by the Sens D.

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08-22-2013, 03:35 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
No one said the Murray was going to solve all of the Habs problems but to take the focus off what he can contribute and onto the shortcomings of others misses the point entirely. So rather than strictly criticizing the move, why not offer up some solutions that you think would have worked.
In terms of bolstering the defense, I keep going back to Tom Gilbert and wondering how much he'd cost. And if what you want is a physical depth D-man, I'm sure there were better players than Murray to be had and likely for cheaper. Komisarek would've been a better signing, for crying out loud -- he's big, physical, about as good as Murray is these days, cheaper, and he's a right-hand shot which the Habs are short of.

In terms of fixing the problems that cost the Habs the series against the Sens, I'm not sure there is anything to be done. Goalies get hot and cold over five-game stretches. And I don't really want to get into a discussion of the Habs' goaltending here; the subject is complex and would veer off-topic.

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08-22-2013, 03:36 PM
  #367
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I'm ready to see Murray avoid other heavy like if it was a ITS
what did u just say

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08-22-2013, 03:37 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
For entertainment purposes, I'm happy with this move. In the interests of icing a better hockey team, it's a bad move. For my optimism on Bergevin being a quality hockey mind, it's rough.
Mathman and mike8 in the same day? I'm getting all warm and fuzzy inside.

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08-22-2013, 03:38 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by guapo23 View Post
Why are people criticizing this deal?

We got a tough 6'2 245 lbs veteran stay-at-home defenseman for cheap.
Did not give anything up to acquire him.

Murray played for the Swedish Olympic Team.
Is great on the PK.
Has had seasons of over 200+ body checks.
Fights well, will protect teamates.
Clears the front of the net.

So what if he is slow? We have plenty of speedy puck moving defensemen to pair him with.

I swear, some of you have ridiculous expectations. We just addressed a huge organizational need. Why complain?
Your post is bang on .....I agree with it 2453.36232%

I was one crowin for Habs go pick up Big Doug ,back at trade deadline then again in June.Count me as a happy camper ,and i echo your thoughts,and as i said back in June
Habs don't got one effective crease clearin dman.....Now we do...

Make a list of all Habs dman, and tell me who you would least like to meet in the corners.......It's Doug Murray...

Anyone complainin , are the same crowd as when we got.Lang.....they complained....when we got Gill...they complained...when we got.Prust..they complained......all those guys gave Habs good service,
and shut the whiners up.

So now were got to listen to some(minority) complain on Doug Murray..lol...I suggest the complainers, just zippin your lips,until he plays 40 games....I'm sure it will be Lang,Gill,Prust all over again


Last edited by Habaneros: 08-22-2013 at 03:44 PM.
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Old
08-22-2013, 03:40 PM
  #370
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what did u just say
I.T.S or M.T.S

maladie sur ton engin de reproduction

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08-22-2013, 03:40 PM
  #371
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Right. Which, again, is not necessarily a condemnation of how Murray played for them. If you can upgrade one player with an objectively better one...you do it.

At no point did I say "Murray brought back 2 second rounders, so he must be awesome!" even though that's what you're arguing against.

I'm simply saying that a hockey mind considerably more celebrated than a Sharks blogger saw enough value in Murray to give up a considerable amount for him because he thought he could help his team at the time. Which, personally, is enough reassurance that Murray can still bring value to a hockey team and enough to reinforce my belief that maybe numbers, contrary to the "evidence" MathMan posted that I was responding to, aren't always everything.

All you're looking for in a deal like this is value. If what Murray brings can outweigh his noted shortcomings, it's good value.
I know I know, I'm simply saying that the fact Shero went after him truly means nothing. Teams sign/trade for bad players all the time, it doesn't mean much.
But I agree, on our team, he does fill a void. We desperately needed a big guy with size than can punish opponents, fight well, clear the net, and really come to Price's defense if need be.
I just wish we hadn't re-signed Drewiske/Bouillon, as them+Murray is a little redundant.
I'm hoping to be way off on Drewiske and he ends up being a late bloomer. I think that's what management believes, it's the only way to justify a two year deal.

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08-22-2013, 03:40 PM
  #372
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what did u just say
Infection Transmissible Sexuellement?

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08-22-2013, 03:41 PM
  #373
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Another article on Murray's decline, written at the trade deadline: http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1484

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08-22-2013, 03:41 PM
  #374
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I.T.S or M.T.S

maladie sur ton engin de reproduction
std, for those still confused.

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08-22-2013, 03:41 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I heard his grand mother has french background... any truth to this?
I don't know but his paternal grandfather is from Scotland (Murray) and his maternal grandfather Lasse Björn is a famous hockey player from Sweden.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=2169

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