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The Off-Season Thread Part VI - Are we there yet? (Grabovski to Caps, 1 yr)

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08-22-2013, 05:29 PM
  #176
Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
5v5 the Rangers have a great roster, even in regard to forwards. Our issues stems from special teams.

We DO have a legit 1st line. Hagelin-Stepan-Nash. They are respectively 36th, 69th, and 31st in zone start adjusted 5v5 scoring over the past 2 years. They were a top 5 line in the league this past season.

Some players are in the top 100 due to playing easy minutes, like Mathieu Perreault (47th), Matt Halischuk (54th), Matt Read (34th), or even our very own Benoit Pouliot (28th!). But Hagelin, Stepan, and Nash has put up their numbers against top competition.

People look at point totals and give out labels such as "1st liner" when point totals are often quite misrepresentative of the players ability in certain roles. Hagelin is a top 5v5 LW in this league but he stinks on the PP, therefore he will never reach the point totals most people will want from their 1st liner. But someone else will play on the PP in their stead and put up those points, like say Ryan Callahan - who is a 2nd/3rd line tweener 5v5, but a fantastic special teams player.

Players like Brown, Perry, Getzlaf, Marleau, Oshie, Backes, BrassGOD primarily score on the PP while not being very effective ES scorers.

The Rangers have 5 players with 2+ ZS adj. P/60 over the past two seasons 5v5: Pouliot, Nash, Hagelin, Stepan, Richards. Only Boston, Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Carolina can say the same.
Great post. Agreed completely. With everything.

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08-22-2013, 05:38 PM
  #177
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If all AV does is help the PP, then we will score, but it might be a list cause lol

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08-22-2013, 05:40 PM
  #178
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Fun fact: the Rangers were the third most efficient team in the league last season at ES http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...ewName=summary

If Vigneault can make strides towards improving the PP and PK, the Rangers are an elite team.

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08-22-2013, 05:42 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
You realize the Rangers problem last year was that they had nothing past their high end offensive talent, right? They were carried by two forwards, their defense, and goaltending.

Health, a full year of Brassard, a bounce back year from Richards, and the additions of Moore/Boyle improve the forward group greatly, and combined with the elite blueline, makes the Rangers a very good team.
Where are the goals coming from? Outside of Nash there's no 30 goal scorer on this team. After that, Stepan and Callahan are the only capables to crack 20. Richards? Don't make me lol. Brassard? Hasn't done it yet. Kreider? Still a big question mark. And that's the better talent on the team. Boyle, Pyatt, Moore, Dorsett, etc aren't going to contribute enough offensively and I don't need stupid advanced statistics to tell me otherwise. The bottom line is this team offensively is challenged and they're small and soft. I personally think it's going to be a struggle all year and the defense and Henrik will have to bail the team out

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08-22-2013, 05:42 PM
  #180
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Yeah our 5 on 5 play is fine, we regresses in PK and we always suck on the PP. The PP always kills us!

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08-22-2013, 05:44 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
I'd rethink that if I was you. This team's offensive talent is mediocre at best! And on top of that they're small and not physical enough. The bottom 6 is still a trouble spot IMO, and the top 6 you have one legitimate first liner.
I can't believe fans are still discussing the Tortorella situation 3 months after he was canned. As you have mentioned, our roster is flawed(hope I don't get tarred and feathered for that!); w/o getting into specifics, I don't see how a new coach is going to make our offense so much better than it's been in the past. Just my opinion, mind you!

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08-22-2013, 05:46 PM
  #182
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Drew, how many years did it take for people to stop discussing Renney? 2? You're surprised we're still talking about him 3 months after he got fired, with zero hockey in between?

Which is another point. We can think what we all want about this team, but no one, including me, has any idea what they actually look like on the ice.

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08-22-2013, 05:46 PM
  #183
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Yeah I guess it is more reasonable that every player on the team is a gutless coward than Tortorella being an abrasive *******.
You know the old saying, '"If the shoe fits, wear it."

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08-22-2013, 05:47 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
Where are the goals coming from?
Well, goals generally are scored by the players.

Forward group isn't ideal but given the elite defense and goaltending, it's decent enough.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Zuccarello-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Brassard-Pouliot
Boyle-Moore-Dorsett

Realistically you can expect Hagelin/Stepan/Nash/Richards/Callahan/Brassard/Pouliot to crack the 15+ goal barrier, and all of them could realistically break the 20 goal barrier as well (although the chances for Pouliot/Brassard are a little lower than the other four). Kreider has the potential to hit 15+, that fourth line is about as good as you'll find, and Zuccarello provides a nice playmaking touch.

I'm really not seeing the panic about the forward group. It'll get better over the next year or so when Miller/Fast/Lindberg/Kristo start to crack the roster and Kreider hopefully solidifies his spot.

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08-22-2013, 05:48 PM
  #185
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The thing is the Rangers DONT NEED a great offense, not even a very good one bc of Hank.. We need to average better than the under 2!! gaa in the playoffs that we did under Torts

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08-22-2013, 05:49 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I can't believe fans are still discussing the Tortorella situation 3 months after he was canned. As you have mentioned, our roster is flawed(hope I don't get tarred and feathered for that!); w/o getting into specifics, I don't see how a new coach is going to make our offense so much better than it's been in the past. Just my opinion, mind you!
Every team's roster is flawed to some extent.

The point isn't to make the offense "so much better". It's to imrpove it slightly while not losing anything defensively. That's not a very unrealistic expectation.

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08-22-2013, 05:55 PM
  #187
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If anything this team need to improve defensively, better term may be improve the efficiency on defense, just so they have enough energy to get out of their own zone and up ice as a unit so they can actually improve offensively.

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08-22-2013, 05:56 PM
  #188
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I can't believe fans are still discussing the Tortorella situation 3 months after he was canned.
Really? There's still a Renney discussion every once in a while.

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08-22-2013, 05:57 PM
  #189
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If by some act of god the coaches can at least make the PP not a momentum murderer then the team will do better, at least that's what I think

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08-22-2013, 06:01 PM
  #190
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What do teams who are good on the power play do well?

They gain the zone with possession.

How does a team get good at gaining the zone with possession? They play that way 5 on 5 so when it's 5 on 4 they already have the confidence and skills to do so.

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08-22-2013, 06:04 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
Where are the goals coming from? Outside of Nash there's no 30 goal scorer on this team. After that, Stepan and Callahan are the only capables to crack 20. Richards? Don't make me lol. Brassard? Hasn't done it yet. Kreider? Still a big question mark. And that's the better talent on the team. Boyle, Pyatt, Moore, Dorsett, etc aren't going to contribute enough offensively and I don't need stupid advanced statistics to tell me otherwise. The bottom line is this team offensively is challenged and they're small and soft. I personally think it's going to be a struggle all year and the defense and Henrik will have to bail the team out
Agree wholeheartedly. The "so called" experts who rate our forwards as #8 in the league and think on Boston and Pittsburgh may beat us out must be permanent residents of fantasy island also.

I see a year in which we struggle to make a 7th or 8th seed; these advanced statistica are a bunch of pure, unadulterated ********!

Like you said, where in the hell are the goals gonna come from with only one(1) legitimate 30+ goal scorer and perhaps 2-3 guys who may sniff 20+ goals?

Krieder hasn't proven **** a/o yet and Hags isn't a natural goal scorer.

So who else is gonna fill the net? Is AV gonna all of a sudden gonna turn a moribund offense into an elite offense? Good luck with that!

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08-22-2013, 06:10 PM
  #192
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Even strength points is "pure, unadulterated ********".

Ok.

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08-22-2013, 06:10 PM
  #193
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Drew, how many years did it take for people to stop discussing Renney? 2? You're surprised we're still talking about him 3 months after he got fired, with zero hockey in between?

Which is another point. We can think what we all want about this team, but no one, including me, has any idea what they actually look like on the ice.
Actually, I'm not surprised, just amused. August is a long month and the natives do tend to get restless as we close in on training camp.
The posts are becoming more and more bizarre lately. Btw, I'm with you; have no idea what we have and how we'll perform on the ice but my gut instinct ( + my infamous negativitity shaped by years and years of lousy management and flawed rosters) tells me that we will be a defensive oriented team relying on Hank to bail our collective ***** out(sound familiar?) Thereby struggling to make the playoffs.

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08-22-2013, 06:14 PM
  #194
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Your gut instinct<Stats and realtime.

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08-22-2013, 06:22 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Fun fact: the Rangers were the third most efficient team in the league last season at ES http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...ewName=summary

If Vigneault can make strides towards improving the PP and PK, the Rangers are an elite team.
Knowing this franchise's luck, we'll probably have beast special teams, and become **** 5 on 5.

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08-22-2013, 06:25 PM
  #196
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Knowing this franchise's luck, we'll probably have beast special teams, and become **** 5 on 5.
If that happens,

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08-22-2013, 06:28 PM
  #197
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*When, not 'if'.

Just kidding, I am looking forward to this season. I don't think we'll be quite as good as some are predicting, but still a playoff team. Didn't being great 5-on-5 have a lot to do with Torts, though? Were AV's teams great 5-on-5? I think we actually have a pretty similar build to recent Vancouver teams; No one like the Sedins, but mostly the defense and elite goaltending. Stepan, Kesler?


Last edited by aufheben: 08-22-2013 at 06:34 PM.
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08-22-2013, 06:33 PM
  #198
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The goals are going to come from up and down the lineup, because lo and behold our roster actually looks quite balanced for once! The Rangers team has a lot of questionmarks, but if all players produce an average season we have one of the most complete teams in the league. The only area we may lack in is out and out offensive punch, but if Stepan keeps it up and Richards bounces back we are hardly lacking there either.

"Hags isn't a natural goal scorer"? Maybe not, but he has scored the same amount of ES goals as Daniel Sedin the past 2 seasons, he has scored 2 more than Jeff Skinner. He somehow gets that done anyway.

Not a legit 1st line? No I guess facing top competition and scoring over 75% of the goals on the ice (i.e. outscoring the opposition more than 3 to 1) isn't a legit 1st line.

Also, I just have to ask: Are you a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs organization? You seem to have remarkably similar views on hockey.

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08-22-2013, 06:38 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
*When, not 'if'.

Just kidding, I am looking forward to this season. I don't think we'll be quite as good as some are predicting, but still a playoff team. Didn't being great 5-on-5 have a lot to do with Torts, though?
It remains to be seen, and perhaps it was like that but I don't think so.

The Rangers have seen a dramatic decrease in 5v5 play the past two years at the exact same time; when the playoffs arrived. And I found it quite obvious why.

While Torts seemed to "let the players play" to a certain extent in the reg. season, there was no fun and games in the playoffs. EVERY zone exit was along the boards, EVERY zone entry was a dump-in. Super predictable.

As I said earlier in this thread, in our most recent matchup with Washington everything pointed towards the Rangers owning 5v5 play. In reality Washington owned it, and the Rangers didn't even look like the same team that played in the reg. season.

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08-22-2013, 06:42 PM
  #200
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The goals are going to come from up and down the lineup, because lo and behold our roster actually looks quite balanced for once! The Rangers team has a lot of questionmarks, but if all players produce an average season we have one of the most complete teams in the league. The only area we may lack in is out and out offensive punch, but if Stepan keeps it up and Richards bounces back we are hardly lacking there either.

"Hags isn't a natural goal scorer"? Maybe not, but he has scored the same amount of ES goals as Daniel Sedin the past 2 seasons, he has scored 2 more than Jeff Skinner. He somehow gets that done anyway.

Not a legit 1st line? No I guess facing top competition and scoring over 75% of the goals on the ice (i.e. outscoring the opposition more than 3 to 1) isn't a legit 1st line.

Also, I just have to ask: Are you a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs organization? You seem to have remarkably similar views on hockey.
You should be a stand up comic; really. Truth is I have been attending Rangers games since 1960 and if fans around here see me as very negative(I call is objective) and a debbie downer, so be it. We are talking about the NY Rangers, far and away the worst of the original 6 franchises and the winner of one whole Stanley Cup in 73 years. Oh yeah, we also have a lousy GM who has been milking his success from 25 years ago and is stealing 5 mil+ a year from the organization.

I'm a firm believer in "put up or shut up" "****, or get off the pot.". So far, I see the fans around here and the dregs who work for the organization putting a postive spin on the team year in and year and out and, to date, the same ****ed up results!

Get my drift now? Or am I being too obtuse??

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