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Bossy vs Sakic

View Poll Results: Who ranks higher on your all time list?
Mike Bossy 97 57.06%
Joe Sakic 73 42.94%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-23-2013, 03:16 AM
  #26
AJMHABS
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Going with Bossy, and I love Sakic.

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08-23-2013, 05:39 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbuffalo313 View Post
It's not like Sakic was leading in all statistical categories. Bossy had two #1 goal scoring finishes and played against prime Gretzky for 6 out of his 10 seasons in the NHL. Sakic never lead in goals or points in his career. Bossy's career high in goals is better than Sakics career high in goals and equal to Sakics career high in assists. Bossy's career high in assists is higher than Sakics career high in assists. Bossy has had 3 season over Sakics career high in points, and 4 more seasons within 3 points of Sakics career high in points.
No, Sakic wasn't leading in all statistical categories, but that wasn't really the point. You can't compare their stats directly when Bossy was playing in the late 70's, early 80's and Sakic's best seasons were from the mid-90's to early 2000's.

Top point finishes:

Sakic: 2,2,3,4,5,5,6,6,8,10
Bossy: 2,4,4,4,5,5,6,6

Top goal finishes:

Sakic: 2,5,6,6,10
Bossy: 1,1,2,2,2,3,3,5,7

Top Assist Finishes:

Sakic: 3,3,4,4,5,5,6,8,9
Bossy: 4,6,9

Top Point Per Game Finishes:

Sakic: 2,3,3,5,5,6,6,7,8
Bossy: 2,3,4,4,5,6,6,7

Top Goals Per Game Finishes:

Sakic: 3,4,7,9
Bossy: 1,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,8

Top Assists Per Game Finishes:

Sakic: 1,3,5,6,6,8,8,9,9
Bossy: 4,4

Without Gretzky, Lemieux and their cohorts

Top Points Finishes:

Bossy: 1,1,3,3,3,3,4,6
Sakic: 1,2,2,4,5,5,6,7,8

Top Points Per Game Finishes:

Sakic: 2,2,3,3,4,5,5,7,8,10
Bossy: 1,1,2,3,3,4,6,6

Top Adjusted Points Totals:

Sakic: 128, 115, 109, 107, 102, 101, 97, 90, 88, 86
Bossy: 108, 106, 97, 95, 93, 93, 92, 81, 78

* Adjusted points aren't great and tend to skew 80's players down and late 90's players up, but it's interested how flipped the numbers become


I think Bossy's finishes show he was a much better goalscorer, and slightly better point scorer, though I think the integration of foreign players hurts a Sakic a bit here. Offensively I don't think there was a massive difference between them though.

One problem is that Sakic's finishes are a little more spread out, but at the same time from 95-96 to 2000-01, Sakic finished 3rd in totals points behind Jagr and Selanne, and 4th in PPG behind Lemieux, Jagr and Lindros. Pretty elite company. From 98-99 to 00-01, Sakic finished 2nd in points and PPG to prime Jagr, finishing well ahead of third place Bure. Bossy's best 6 and 3 year stretches put him only second to Gretzky, but without a huge lead over third place, and without going against prime Jagr.

Again, I don't dispute that Bossy was a better offensive player, but I don't think it was by a large margin. And while he was a great goalscorer, and his 50 goal season record is impressive, I stand by the fact that it causes him to get overrated at times. He's not the best goalscorer of all time like some like to claim, and I don't think referencing the record is reason enough to place him over Sakic. I think at their peaks the two were very close, Bossy may have had the better prime, but Sakic has a great extended prime to make up for it. I don't think they should be too far apart on any list though.

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Old
08-23-2013, 07:53 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
People forget that Bossy was the 3rd most valuable player on his team, not the 1st. Sakic for me. More complete.
That's what happens when you have Dennis Potvin and Bryan Trottier on your team, oh yeah, and you also win 4 Stanley Cups in a row.

People would often say that Roy and Forsberg were more important than Sakic, I don't think Forsberg was more important but you could make a very good case that Roy was more important to the Avs and that doesn't diminish how great Sakic was even a little bit, playing with Trottier and Potvin shouldn't diminish how great Bossy was either.

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08-23-2013, 08:36 AM
  #29
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I take Sakikc for only 2 reasons.

1 - he was a center.
2 - He was clearly the better overall player.

Bossy was incredibly boss, though.

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08-23-2013, 08:38 AM
  #30
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Mike Bossy.

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08-23-2013, 09:02 AM
  #31
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Excellent poll. I've got to go with Bossy just because there are few that can put up the goals that he did the way he did. And Sakic is one of my all-time favorites. Easy arguments can be made for either and neither would be wrong.

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08-23-2013, 09:42 AM
  #32
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Sakic AINEC.

Sakic : about 5 seasons over 50 goals, win gold medal for Canada with the most useful player in tourney. Win stanley cup twice? An exemplary captain, always consistent and elite at everyting he was doing.

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08-23-2013, 09:44 AM
  #33
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Easily Bossy

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08-23-2013, 09:52 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
Sakic AINEC.

Sakic : about 5 seasons over 50 goals, win gold medal for Canada with the most useful player in tourney. Win stanley cup twice? An exemplary captain, always consistent and elite at everyting he was doing.
Bossy had at least 50 goals in 9 straight years, and his last season he got 38 goals in only 63 games. Bossy won the cup 4 times and his playoff stats those years are insane.

GP G A Pts
16 10 13 23
18 17 18 35
19 17 10 27
19 17 9 26

Total: 72gp 61goals 50assists 111points

To say 'AINEC' for either player is a little ridiculous.

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08-23-2013, 10:09 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Bossy had at least 50 goals in 9 straight years, and his last season he got 38 goals in only 63 games. Bossy won the cup 4 times and his playoff stats those years are insane.

GP G A Pts
16 10 13 23
18 17 18 35
19 17 10 27
19 17 9 26

Total: 72gp 61goals 50assists 111points

To say 'AINEC' for either player is a little ridiculous.
And sakic was an exemplary captain, a true leader on his team and their top player. And overall, i couldn't care more of a player been archieving 50 goals in 1970. Overall Sakic have more goals than bossy in his entire career, and did it on a rougher period of time.

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08-23-2013, 11:38 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
And sakic was an exemplary captain, a true leader on his team and their top player. And overall, i couldn't care more of a player been archieving 50 goals in 1970. Overall Sakic have more goals than bossy in his entire career, and did it on a rougher period of time.
1980-83 nice try though.

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08-23-2013, 11:46 AM
  #37
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Very close but I'll go with Sakic due to his extreme longevity at a high level.

I think the case could be made that he also peaked higher as well.

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08-23-2013, 12:09 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
Because people talk about it as if it's more impressive than it is. Yea, he had 9 straight 50 goal seasons, but he also did it in the perfect era for him, and it's not as if he was leading the league in goals the majority of those years. Bossy was great, but I think that record tends to skew things in his favour sometimes.
Then why didn't more players do it?

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08-23-2013, 12:12 PM
  #39
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Also, I think Mike Bossy's defensive game gets over looked because he was such a tremendous offensive player. That team was coached by Al Arbour, everyone played D or they sat in the press box.... regardless of the name on the back of the sweater.


While he wasn't a Selke level defender.... he wasn't hurting the team out there either.

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08-23-2013, 12:23 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
And sakic was an exemplary captain, a true leader on his team and their top player. And overall, i couldn't care more of a player been archieving 50 goals in 1970. Overall Sakic have more goals than bossy in his entire career, and did it on a rougher period of time.
Sakic had a grand total if 52 more goals in 626 more games. Bossy would have passed him in one season. I have no idea what the point of this statement was.

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08-23-2013, 01:40 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbuffalo313 View Post
Sakic had a grand total if 52 more goals in 626 more games. Bossy would have passed him in one season. I have no idea what the point of this statement was.
The point was that Sakic has more goals than Bossy in his career. Sakic played more recently than Bossy in the NHL, thats huge considering Bossy played an era where some random players, say Gretsky, was archieving 200 poitns+ a season, it was surely easyer to score in that time, i won't come to why it was easyer but it was.

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08-23-2013, 01:42 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
The point was that Sakic has more goals than Bossy in his career. Sakic played more recently than Bossy in the NHL, thats huge considering Bossy played an era where some random players, say Gretsky, was archieving 200 poitns+ a season, it was surely easyer to score in that time, i won't come to why it was easyer but it was.
So did Sakic and for the love of god how do you spell Gretzky wrong.

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08-23-2013, 02:19 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Sakic. He beats Bossy on longevity.
I'm old enough to have watched them both play. despite the fact bossy took all that punishment and had to retire early, I still pick him.

I think this is a fair poll, and my opinion is that anyone who says AINEC most likely doesn't know bossy as anything other than a name and some numbers off a google search.

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08-23-2013, 02:32 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
Sakic AINEC.

Sakic : about 5 seasons over 50 goals, win gold medal for Canada with the most useful player in tourney. Win stanley cup twice? An exemplary captain, always consistent and elite at everyting he was doing.
A couple of things really need to be said in response to your post.

First off, Sakic had 2 seasons where he scored 50 goals not 5, Bossy had 9 seasons where he scored 50, every season he played except for his last injury shortened season.

Bossy won 4 Stanley Cups in a row

Bossy may have been the most consistent scorer in the history of the NHL.

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08-23-2013, 02:39 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
The point was that Sakic has more goals than Bossy in his career. Sakic played more recently than Bossy in the NHL, thats huge considering Bossy played an era where some random players, say Gretsky, was archieving 200 poitns+ a season, it was surely easyer to score in that time, i won't come to why it was easyer but it was.
Sakic played in the era when Gretzky played as well, Sakic had to play 626 more games than Bossy did in order to score 50 more goals than Bossy, and you don't know how to spell GRETZKY?

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08-23-2013, 02:49 PM
  #46
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Bossy was the best goal scorer ever and that is an unreal thing to be. Bossy AINEC. Not many people can you say are better than Sakic AINEC but Bossy is one of them.

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08-23-2013, 03:00 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
The point was that Sakic has more goals than Bossy in his career. Sakic played more recently than Bossy in the NHL, thats huge considering Bossy played an era where some random players, say Gretsky, was archieving 200 poitns+ a season, it was surely easyer to score in that time, i won't come to why it was easyer but it was.
Messier has more points than Lemieux. I guess Measier is better than Lemieux. Also how come Gretzky is the only player to ever hit 200 points in a season. If it was so easy how come no one else did it?

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08-23-2013, 03:12 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
No, Sakic wasn't leading in all statistical categories, but that wasn't really the point. You can't compare their stats directly when Bossy was playing in the late 70's, early 80's and Sakic's best seasons were from the mid-90's to early 2000's.

Top point finishes:

Sakic: 2,2,3,4,5,5,6,6,8,10
Bossy: 2,4,4,4,5,5,6,6

Top goal finishes:

Sakic: 2,5,6,6,10
Bossy: 1,1,2,2,2,3,3,5,7

Top Assist Finishes:

Sakic: 3,3,4,4,5,5,6,8,9
Bossy: 4,6,9

Top Point Per Game Finishes:

Sakic: 2,3,3,5,5,6,6,7,8
Bossy: 2,3,4,4,5,6,6,7

Top Goals Per Game Finishes:

Sakic: 3,4,7,9
Bossy: 1,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,8

Top Assists Per Game Finishes:

Sakic: 1,3,5,6,6,8,8,9,9
Bossy: 4,4

Without Gretzky, Lemieux and their cohorts

Top Points Finishes:

Bossy: 1,1,3,3,3,3,4,6
Sakic: 1,2,2,4,5,5,6,7,8

Top Points Per Game Finishes:

Sakic: 2,2,3,3,4,5,5,7,8,10
Bossy: 1,1,2,3,3,4,6,6

Top Adjusted Points Totals:

Sakic: 128, 115, 109, 107, 102, 101, 97, 90, 88, 86
Bossy: 108, 106, 97, 95, 93, 93, 92, 81, 78

* Adjusted points aren't great and tend to skew 80's players down and late 90's players up, but it's interested how flipped the numbers become


I think Bossy's finishes show he was a much better goalscorer, and slightly better point scorer, though I think the integration of foreign players hurts a Sakic a bit here. Offensively I don't think there was a massive difference between them though.

One problem is that Sakic's finishes are a little more spread out, but at the same time from 95-96 to 2000-01, Sakic finished 3rd in totals points behind Jagr and Selanne, and 4th in PPG behind Lemieux, Jagr and Lindros. Pretty elite company. From 98-99 to 00-01, Sakic finished 2nd in points and PPG to prime Jagr, finishing well ahead of third place Bure. Bossy's best 6 and 3 year stretches put him only second to Gretzky, but without a huge lead over third place, and without going against prime Jagr.

Again, I don't dispute that Bossy was a better offensive player, but I don't think it was by a large margin. And while he was a great goalscorer, and his 50 goal season record is impressive, I stand by the fact that it causes him to get overrated at times. He's not the best goalscorer of all time like some like to claim, and I don't think referencing the record is reason enough to place him over Sakic. I think at their peaks the two were very close, Bossy may have had the better prime, but Sakic has a great extended prime to make up for it. I don't think they should be too far apart on any list though.
Great analysis, it's obviously very close between the two, but I would give the slight edge to Sakic based on two-way play, and a much longer career. Regarding the part in bold, perfect example is the post below mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
Bossy was the best goal scorer ever and that is an unreal thing to be. Bossy AINEC. Not many people can you say are better than Sakic AINEC but Bossy is one of them.
Lemieux, Gretzky, Richard, Bobby Hull, all say hello, no way is Bossy a better goalscorer than any of them. Then there's Brett Hull, Alex Ovechkin and Pavel Bure who are atleast as good as Bossy at scoring goals IMO.

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Old
08-23-2013, 03:13 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
People forget that Bossy was the 3rd most valuable player on his team, not the 1st. Sakic for me. More complete.
Patrick Roy is arguably the greatest goalie of alltime. Have the Avs won more than one playoff round in a given season since he retired?

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08-23-2013, 03:35 PM
  #50
jarmoismyhero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
Great analysis, it's obviously very close between the two, but I would give the slight edge to Sakic based on two-way play, and a much longer career. Regarding the part in bold, perfect example is the post below mine.



Lemieux, Gretzky, Richard, Bobby Hull, all say hello, no way is Bossy a better goalscorer than any of them. Then there's Brett Hull, Alex Ovechkin and Pavel Bure who are atleast as good as Bossy at scoring goals IMO.

Bossys GPG are better than all of the with Lemieux being close. Bossy scored at a GPG clip of .77 while Mario was .75 and all the other guys are around .55-.62.

He did not have the longevity but he scored at insane rates during his career. 9 out of his 10 years he had 50+ goals 5 of which were in the 60's. Another amazing thing is Bossy is 16th all time in even strength goals while only playing 10 seasons. He is also 3rd all time in ppg but a lot of that has to do with his goals. He reminds me of Koufax in baseball, someone who is an absolute all time great but did not play many seasons.

The more I think about it my AINEC reference was not correct but I stand by my opinion that Bossy was the best goal scorer of all time.


Last edited by jarmoismyhero: 08-23-2013 at 03:49 PM.
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