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Stralman's future with NYR?

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Old
08-23-2013, 10:07 AM
  #26
Dactyl
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girardi will get stupid money as a UFA while stralsy is practically unknown. i would rather have stralman at 2-3 mill than girardi at 5+

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Old
08-23-2013, 10:26 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
girardi will get stupid money as a UFA while stralsy is practically unknown. i would rather have stralman at 2-3 mill than girardi at 5+
I agree.

I like Girardi, but his value is inflated thanks to riding shotgun with Staal and McDonagh for years. You put him with someone like Del Zotto, and disaster generally ensues.

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08-23-2013, 10:31 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree.

I like Girardi, but his value is inflated thanks to riding shotgun with Staal and McDonagh for years. You put him with someone like Del Zotto, and disaster generally ensues.
girardi-dz was a nightmare. its embarrassing that it took torts 6 goals against to realize it. girardi looks great with staal and mcd, however that says more about them than it does about girardi. dz looked like freakin letang playing with staal.

when push comes to shove i would rather give up G.

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08-23-2013, 10:44 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
girardi will get stupid money as a UFA while stralsy is practically unknown. i would rather have stralman at 2-3 mill than girardi at 5+
I absolutely agree. It's not out of the realm of possibility for Girardi to get $6 mill + on his next contract.......which sounds terrifying.

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Old
08-23-2013, 10:56 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
cause he isnt 30+ and a former Devil... how did the Jackets let him go?? only to have sign James "shows Avery how to" Wisniewski who has been hurt a lot since he signed with the Jackets.



How did the Jackets let him go? Because he didn't play nearly as well there as he has here. If he played in NY like he did in CLB he would have been out the door a long time ago.

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08-23-2013, 11:16 AM
  #31
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im a big anton fan.

strals is a terrific 2 way defender who skates pretty well and has offensive upside. hes a bargain right now and at 27, hes playing for his next payday. i expect a big season from anton this year.

and i still say hes the guy i want on pp point. he just needs to be told to shoot the puck more. anton got some quality pp point time when he was with columbus few years back and had some decent numbers there. and arneil was on that staff back then as well. i expect av to give him a long looksee there.

bottom line, strals skates better and make better decisions with the pill on his stick than does the fumbling del zotto. and defensively hes less risk and more steady.

were mcilrath ready to play 3rd pair minutes this season, its mike del zotto thats packin his bags and stralman thats staying put imo.

Of course you do. Ignore the fact that MDZ has accomplished more by 22 years old than Stralman has in his career.

Look, this board is getting a tad ridiculous this late in the offseason. This is reality:

-Anton Stralman is a good player for the 3rd pair.

-He is NOT our # 4. He is NOT on our 2nd pairing. This is not an opinion. This is a fact backed up by EVERY stat.

-Before you want to move players out to preserve a spot for Stralman, let's see him succeed in an NHL role under a non-Torts system (something he's never yet done). Anton Stralman looked like a good player playing ridiculously sheltered minutes in a simplified, safe system. In every other system he has been in, he has been exposed and cast off. Even in this system, Torts himself said he didn't want Stralman getting too many minutes, since he couldn't really handle that role.

This board loves to demonize some players and deify others. Newsflash--you are picking the wrong guy to deify. Good bottom pair guy, but that's it.

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08-23-2013, 11:25 AM
  #32
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Can you post these stats?

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Old
08-23-2013, 11:30 AM
  #33
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Girardi was a nightmare when Torts started making him pinch every play. With the cap increasing, Richards hopefully being bought out, I don't think that extra 2.5 is going to bit us in the ass. By no means would I give give Girardi a long term contract (5+ years) But to say Stralman is better kept to us over Girardi? I definitely don't agree with that. Girardi has anchored our blueline for years. He had a horrible playoffs and a bad short season. I'm not ready to give up on somebody who has been very solid to us.

I'm also not saying lets give Girardi 6+ million. But, if we're comparing a 2.5 Stralman to a 5 million Girardi. The extra 2.5 is well spent.

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08-23-2013, 11:42 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Of course you do. Ignore the fact that MDZ has accomplished more by 22 years old than Stralman has in his career.

Look, this board is getting a tad ridiculous this late in the offseason. This is reality:

-Anton Stralman is a good player for the 3rd pair.

-He is NOT our # 4. He is NOT on our 2nd pairing. This is not an opinion. This is a fact backed up by EVERY stat.

-Before you want to move players out to preserve a spot for Stralman, let's see him succeed in an NHL role under a non-Torts system (something he's never yet done). Anton Stralman looked like a good player playing ridiculously sheltered minutes in a simplified, safe system. In every other system he has been in, he has been exposed and cast off. Even in this system, Torts himself said he didn't want Stralman getting too many minutes, since he couldn't really handle that role.

This board loves to demonize some players and deify others. Newsflash--you are picking the wrong guy to deify. Good bottom pair guy, but that's it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
Can you post these stats?
Del Zotto did average more ESTOI than Strålman in the reg. season, that is entirely correct - roughly 2 minutes per game. Strålman was however 3rd among defencemen in the playoffs.

The reason I rank Strålman over Del Zotto is because they were used remarkably similarly in the reg. season, both in regards to QoC and zone starts, and Strålman was leaps and bounds better. Del Zotto produced more points but in every other aspect, be it possession, goal differential, or shifts finished in the offensive zone, Strålman was significantly ahead.

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Old
08-23-2013, 11:52 AM
  #35
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Stralman should be re-signed. Same with Girardi. It would be an awful idea to lose either of them as long as their contract demands are fair.

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Old
08-23-2013, 12:01 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TGWL View Post
Girardi was a nightmare when Torts started making him pinch every play. With the cap increasing, Richards hopefully being bought out, I don't think that extra 2.5 is going to bit us in the ass. By no means would I give give Girardi a long term contract (5+ years) But to say Stralman is better kept to us over Girardi? I definitely don't agree with that. Girardi has anchored our blueline for years. He had a horrible playoffs and a bad short season. I'm not ready to give up on somebody who has been very solid to us.

I'm also not saying lets give Girardi 6+ million. But, if we're comparing a 2.5 Stralman to a 5 million Girardi. The extra 2.5 is well spent.
Agree. It's how I look at Callahan as well. Keep away from the 8 year deals. 4 or 5 is just fine. Try to get either for around $5 mil per annum before they even hit free agency. Don't think either of these players are likely to be worth a lot in 7-8 years.

Stralman is a good player but he is not a top pairing defenseman--cheap contract or not he's not good enough to fill that role. Rangers would have to find someone else which might cost them in terms of a contract similar to the 5 year $5 mil I mention above + other assets--players, prospects, draft picks. They already have a guy (Girardi) who can fill the role--the money is going to be about the same--maybe even more to replace him. There is Moore who we have not seen yet on the right side. Other than that apart from the possibility of McIlrath there's no in house solution for a top right side defenseman. For the short term--maybe even the long run that seems outside what I think Dylan could handle.

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Old
08-23-2013, 12:07 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Del Zotto did average more ESTOI than Strålman in the reg. season, that is entirely correct - roughly 2 minutes per game. Strålman was however 3rd among defencemen in the playoffs.

The reason I rank Strålman over Del Zotto is because they were used remarkably similarly in the reg. season, both in regards to QoC and zone starts, and Strålman was leaps and bounds better. Del Zotto produced more points but in every other aspect, be it possession, goal differential, or shifts finished in the offensive zone, Strålman was significantly ahead.
But what was the AVG PP/PK TOI?

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08-23-2013, 12:09 PM
  #38
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If I had to coach a game today, I'd play Stralman over MDZ, simply because he's a better player at the moment.

The difference is that Stralman is 5 years older and MDZ has tons of potential. That's why you keep on playing him wven if he makes mistakes. Stralman played like a 2nd pairing dman most of the time last season and was a stud in the PO. His game has been improved every season since he became a Ranger and I'm really excited to see how he will develop in a new system.

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Old
08-23-2013, 12:10 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
But what was the AVG PP/PK TOI?

Del Zotto significantly ahead on both counts.

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08-23-2013, 12:11 PM
  #40
JohnC
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A few weeks ago some were discussing reasons why Girardi was more valuable than McDonagh and Staal. Now some are discussing reasons why Stralman is more valuable than Girardi.

#ThisOffseasonILearned
Stralman>Girardi>McDonagh & Staal

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08-23-2013, 12:12 PM
  #41
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Stralman has made Slats look good; as long as his increase is even remotely reasonable and able to be swallowed, he will be re-upped.

This assumes we don't get better righty Ds in trade, like Faulk from Canes.

Assumes OP premise beginning end of this year, McIrath establishes next year he is keeper at #4 or 6.

So smart move is to trade Girardi before end of this year, before wear and tear factor may evidence itself down the road, assuming good enough return.

Stral stays unless offer too good to pass up is made.

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Old
08-23-2013, 12:16 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
A few weeks ago some were discussing reasons why Girardi was more valuable than McDonagh and Staal. Now some are discussing reasons why Stralman is more valuable than Girardi.

#ThisOffseasonILearned
Stralman>Girardi>McDonagh & Staal
Wait, what! Really? As in that actually happened?

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08-23-2013, 12:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Wait, what! Really? As in that actually happened?
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1479093

Somewhere in there I believe

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Old
08-23-2013, 12:20 PM
  #44
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Girardi +1
Stralman +1
Del Zotto -2
Having to play Bickel because Stralman and/or Girardi are gone -10000

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08-23-2013, 12:23 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Wait, what! Really? As in that actually happened?
The argument that some made was that since we have Staal and McD on the left side, we could afford to lose one of them. And Girardi was our only top pairing RD. Personally I think it's mind-boggling.

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08-23-2013, 12:27 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Faxius View Post
The argument that some made was that since we have Staal and McD on the left side, we could afford to lose one of them. And Girardi was our only top pairing RD. Personally I think it's mind-boggling.
So I guess Kris Letang is more valuable than Crosby/Malkin, interesting...

*wanders off in the direction of the trade board*

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Old
08-23-2013, 02:55 PM
  #47
smoneil
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
Can you post these stats?
There was an article that was linked to the boards a while back that showed the Rangers 6 defensemen ranked according to their production and the kinds of starts they got. The top four weren't sheltered. The bottom two received very sheltered minutes. Stralman and Moore were the only two players to get sheltered minutes last season (Moore moreso than Stralman). I searched around for it, but couldn't find it. It had a chart sort of thing that showed how the six fell.

Beyond that though, MDZ received significantly more minutes in every situation, he put up three times the production, and that was with playing part of the season with a hernia.

Last season, Stralman had zero power play points, despite averaging over a minute a game on the power play. Over the last two years, Stralman has four points on the power play, despite averaging over a minute a game. Nearly two hours worth of power play time in his Rangers tenure, and he only has four points.

Last season, they were about the same in hits. Del Zotto had 22 more blocked shots.

The season before, Del Zotto had 80 more hits, 24 more blocked shots, and had double the shooting percentage.

Over the last two years, Del Zotto is a +26. Stralman is a +23.

In short, Del Zotto played more minutes in all situations against tougher competition and put up better numbers. Oh yeah, and he's half a decade younger to boot. MDZ is easily the better player right now, and that gap is only going to grow.

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Old
08-23-2013, 03:46 PM
  #48
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If we get rid of stralman I'm gonna be pissed. Who else on this team hip checks besides for stralman??

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Old
08-23-2013, 04:08 PM
  #49
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"Half a decade younger". Come on. 27 is not old at all for a defensemen. He played for Toronto and Columbus prior to NYR, not exactly the class of the NHL. He's excelled in every opportunity he's been given here. Everyone seems to be banking on Del Zotto becoming Brian Leetch, why can't Stralman continue improving? He stepped up these playoffs when some of our other key players fell flat on their faces. He's lessened the blow of losing Sauer considerably, everything short of lunacy should be done to keep him.

Whether he or Full Leather Jacket are better right now, I don't want to get it to. Obviously Del Zotto has terrific offensive potential. There are a lot of situations where I'd want Stralman on the ice instead of Del Zotto. Right now.

Anyway, we should all be grateful that the defensive core is so full of potential and already strong, that we can have such circular, abstracted arguments.


Last edited by Aufheben: 08-23-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old
08-23-2013, 04:16 PM
  #50
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OK, I've made some charts to view the usage of the Rangers' defencemen in 2012-13.

I included the 6 defencemen who received the most ES playing time: Ryan McDonagh, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi, Michael Del Zotto, Anton Strålman, and Steve Eminger. John Moore was #7 in minutes and spent over half his games in Columbus making his data inconclusive anyway. Let's get started!

Zone starts. Here are two charts showing the zone starts, the second one only showing starts in the offensive zone vs starts in the defensive.


As we can see, the three most sheltered defencemen in regard to zone starts were in order: Michael Del Zotto, Marc Staal, and Anton Strålman.

But zone starts are hardly the most important thing, being sheltered is about playing against soft competition. QoC can be measured in different ways, I chose raw numbers as Del Zotto and Strålman (the two D-men we're really comparing) have their data drawn from almost the exact same sample. Eminger's and Staal's numbers are likely skewed since they both missed significant parts of the season. Even using raw numbers, there are four different ways of measuring QoC, so I made a chart for each one. The axis are kept constant in order to not distort the perception of the data.


As we can see Del Zotto faced slightly harder competition based on goal differential, but Strålman faced a lot more difficult competition based on every shot based metric.

Now, some prefer goal based stats like Dave Nonis while others prefer shot based metrics like Doug Wilson and Dean Lombardi. Since I prefer shot based ones, and especially since the shot based difference is significantly larger than the goal based one I feel Del Zotto was actually more sheltered than Strålman, despite having a bigger role.

Data courtesy of hockeyanalysis.com

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