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Hamilton Bulldogs & Wheeling Nailers 2013-2014 "No more Stortini" Edition

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Old
08-22-2013, 09:02 PM
  #101
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre View Post
Let's now look at how the worst AHL teams compare to their parent clubs in subsequent seasons

2003: Lowell Lock Monster --> 2004-2007 Hurricanes (out of playoffs, no season, Stanley Cup, out of playoffs)
2004: Albany River Rats --> 2005-2008 Devils (no season, 2nd round exit, 2nd round exit, first round exit)
2005 & 2006: Utah Grizzlies & San Antonio Rampage --> 2006-2009 Coyotes (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2007: Senators --> 2008-2010 Senators (first roud exit, out of playoffs, first round exit)
2008: Rochester Americans --> 2009-2011 Sabres (out of playoffs, first round loss, first round loss)
2009 & 2010: Springfield Falcons --> 2010-2013 Oilers (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2011: Albany Devils --> 2012-2013 Devils (Lost in Finals, out of playoffs)

So counting 9 seasons of hockey the results are:

13 seasons of missed playoffs
5 first round exits
2 second round exits
1 Stanley Cup finals loss
1 Stanley Cup

This is not so definitive. Looking at my last two posts, I think we can agree that Calder Cups bring nothing to the NHL team, but being a basement dweller in the AHL shows no organizational depth at all. Hopefully we can pull a 2005 Hurricanes!
Some AHL teams win the Calder based on how great their AHL vets are. So of course, it will do NOTHING to the parent club as those AHL vets keeps proving they are not good enough to even keep a regular NHL job. But teams that saw some of their rookies perform well in their situations have seen the same players play a key role for the parent club.

And frankly, I'm not even sure why we talk about winning the Calder Cup. You can be playing in a winning environment and not win a Cup. I think that's more crucial. Yes, okay to have 1 terrible season and learn how to cope with that. But at one point, you want your kids to play in a winning environment as well and then, there are highs and lows even in those seasons. But you need to see them competing and having a winning environment also has to mean, surely, a longer playoff run. Can't be bad.

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08-22-2013, 09:38 PM
  #102
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Let's compare Calder Cup champs and their parent clubs success in subsequent years

2003: Aeros --> 2004-2007 Wild (out of playoffs, no season, out of playoffs, first round exit)
2004: Admirals --> 2005-2008 Predators (no season, first round exit, first round exit, first round exit)
2005: Phantoms --> 2006-2008 Flyers (first round exit, out of playoffs, lost in round three)
2006: Bears --> 2007-2009 Capitals (out of playoffs, first round exit, second round exit)
2007: Bulldogs --> 2008-2010 Canadiens (2nd round exit, first round exit, third round exit)
2008: Wolves --> 2009-2011 Thrashers (out of playoffs, out of playoffs, out of playoffs)
2009 & 2010: Bears --> 2010-2013 Capitals (first round exit, second round exit, second round exit, first round exit)
2011 Senators --> 2012-2013 Senators (first round exit, second round exit)

Out of 9 different calder cup champions we have:

7 seasons out of the playoffs
10 first round exits
5 second round exits
2 third round exits

if you plot that on a graph it looks awfully similar to a bell curve

you can draw your own conclusions from that.

Thank you for posting. Always like posts with lot of research behind them.

Only thing... I can't say I agree with the bolded sentence.

14/30 teams don't make the PO each year: 47 %. That's the high plateau on the left side your "normal curve". The rest is a normally shaped a bell curve (at least the right part of it).

In your research 17/24 teams made the playoffs (71 %) leaving only 29% on the left side of your curve, it's much less than the average team. It seems to indicate that having your AHL team win the Calder up helps you to at least make the PO the following years...

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08-23-2013, 09:50 AM
  #103
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With the signing of Doug Murray the Bulldogs defense may have just become a little bit better... because Tinordi will now likely start the season in Hamilton.

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08-23-2013, 02:35 PM
  #104
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Just wondering if the Habs can sign Toni Rajala off of waivers during the off-season to an AHL contract or not? Probably wishful thinking and Jarmo is wringing his fists in Columbus, Ohio, at the thought of signing the speedster.

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08-23-2013, 04:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Just wondering if the Habs can sign Toni Rajala off of waivers during the off-season to an AHL contract or not? Probably wishful thinking and Jarmo is wringing his fists in Columbus, Ohio, at the thought of signing the speedster.
If you trust the word that's going around, he wants to play in Europe, not in the AHL. Since he's not ready for full time NHL duty, I don't think anyone will claim/sign him.

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08-23-2013, 07:58 PM
  #106
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Wonder if Mike Ratchuk has done progressing. Interesting player when he was drafted, really small, but Wheeling has picked this d-man for the upcoming season and he might be interesting for a AHL callup....remains to be seen by who if it happens. With the Habs sending a couple of players, they, as much as Pittsburgh, be seeing him first hand and try to sign a AHL deal with him.

I'd also keep an eye on Max McKay Wheeling also signed. Only 22 years old, one of the best in the AJHL, had a couple of games in the AHL, really seems to be strong enough to be a top player in the ECHL.....you never know.

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08-24-2013, 09:36 PM
  #107
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Any articles on Leblanc's summer? I find it hard to believe that he suddenly lost it last season and feel he's up for a definite bounce back.

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08-24-2013, 10:57 PM
  #108
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A few thoughts about QMJHL players that will be 20 before this season ends or already can be signed to play in the AHL.

Centers:
Matt Boudens - Drummondville - 5'11" - 190 lbs. already 20yrs.
Adam Chapman - A-B Titans - 6'1" - 200 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan. 8th 2014

RW's :
Louick Marcotte - Val d'or -6'0" -190 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan. 7th 2014
Marcus Hinds - Blainville -6'2" - 188 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan.31st 2014

LW's :
Jack Nevins - Charlotteville - 6'2" - 205 lbs. already 20yrs.
Ross Johnston - Victoriaville - 6'5" - 224 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Feb. 18th 2014

My choices for character players that could be Hamilton Bulldogs this season.
Louick Marcotte* actually is at the top of my list, then Adam Chapman* as the faceoff ace center. It's a tough call between Jack Nevins* and Ross Johnston for the LW position, but that's a really special 4th line in case of injuries and they can move up to any line the coach needs them. Team players all of them and they won't cost draft picks or prospects to sign them.

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08-25-2013, 07:00 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
A few thoughts about QMJHL players that will be 20 before this season ends or already can be signed to play in the AHL.

Centers:
Matt Boudens - Drummondville - 5'11" - 190 lbs. already 20yrs.
Adam Chapman - A-B Titans - 6'1" - 200 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan. 8th 2014

RW's :
Louick Marcotte - Val d'or -6'0" -190 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan. 7th 2014
Marcus Hinds - Blainville -6'2" - 188 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan.31st 2014

LW's :
Jack Nevins - Charlotteville - 6'2" - 205 lbs. already 20yrs.
Ross Johnston - Victoriaville - 6'5" - 224 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Feb. 18th 2014

My choices for character players that could be Hamilton Bulldogs this season.
Louick Marcotte* actually is at the top of my list, then Adam Chapman* as the faceoff ace center. It's a tough call between Jack Nevins* and Ross Johnston for the LW position, but that's a really special 4th line in case of injuries and they can move up to any line the coach needs them. Team players all of them and they won't cost draft picks or prospects to sign them.
Has Hinds been invited to the Habs rookie camp?

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08-25-2013, 09:02 PM
  #110
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Has Hinds been invited to the Habs rookie camp?
yes.

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Old
08-26-2013, 01:17 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
A few thoughts about QMJHL players that will be 20 before this season ends or already can be signed to play in the AHL.

Centers:
Matt Boudens - Drummondville - 5'11" - 190 lbs. already 20yrs.
Adam Chapman - A-B Titans - 6'1" - 200 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan. 8th 2014

RW's :
Louick Marcotte - Val d'or -6'0" -190 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan. 7th 2014
Marcus Hinds - Blainville -6'2" - 188 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan.31st 2014

LW's :
Jack Nevins - Charlotteville - 6'2" - 205 lbs. already 20yrs.
Ross Johnston - Victoriaville - 6'5" - 224 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Feb. 18th 2014

My choices for character players that could be Hamilton Bulldogs this season.
Louick Marcotte* actually is at the top of my list, then Adam Chapman* as the faceoff ace center. It's a tough call between Jack Nevins* and Ross Johnston for the LW position, but that's a really special 4th line in case of injuries and they can move up to any line the coach needs them. Team players all of them and they won't cost draft picks or prospects to sign them.
Would Ross Johnston be anything else than a goon?

Edit: He was invited to the Dallas rookie camp earlier this summer.


Last edited by ChoseLa: 08-26-2013 at 01:46 AM.
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Old
08-26-2013, 07:44 AM
  #112
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Would Ross Johnston be anything else than a goon?

Edit: He was invited to the Dallas rookie camp earlier this summer.
Johnston has been a scorer as well as being a little truculent, Nevins on the other hand has a real nasty edge to him. None of those players are shrinking Violets, they probably are the best mixture of both, something the Bulldogs could use more of until Crisp joins them.

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Old
08-26-2013, 12:04 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by habsprospects View Post
yes.
Thanks! Will you get a chance to see any of the camp. There seems to be an unusually high number of young players who might have a chance to earn a pro contract.

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08-26-2013, 11:58 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Johnston has been a scorer as well as being a little truculent, Nevins on the other hand has a real nasty edge to him. None of those players are shrinking Violets, they probably are the best mixture of both, something the Bulldogs could use more of until Crisp joins them.
I watched some fights of both Johnston and Nevins, pretty good, but Nevins really look like an ECHL bench warmer though.

EDIT Our two friends are going at it in this video, God poor Nevins kid!



Last edited by ChoseLa: 08-27-2013 at 12:19 AM.
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Old
08-27-2013, 08:48 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
A few thoughts about QMJHL players that will be 20 before this season ends or already can be signed to play in the AHL.

Centers:
Matt Boudens - Drummondville - 5'11" - 190 lbs. already 20yrs.
Adam Chapman - A-B Titans - 6'1" - 200 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan. 8th 2014

RW's :
Louick Marcotte - Val d'or -6'0" -190 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan. 7th 2014
Marcus Hinds - Blainville -6'2" - 188 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Jan.31st 2014

LW's :
Jack Nevins - Charlotteville - 6'2" - 205 lbs. already 20yrs.
Ross Johnston - Victoriaville - 6'5" - 224 lbs. turns 20 yrs. Feb. 18th 2014

My choices for character players that could be Hamilton Bulldogs this season.
Louick Marcotte* actually is at the top of my list, then Adam Chapman* as the faceoff ace center. It's a tough call between Jack Nevins* and Ross Johnston for the LW position, but that's a really special 4th line in case of injuries and they can move up to any line the coach needs them. Team players all of them and they won't cost draft picks or prospects to sign them.

Interesting list. Just to note though, those turning 20 in 2014 can't be signed until after this season. It goes by calendar year.

Having said that, I don't see much use for Nevins. Having seen his first couple of years in junior, he is essentially a second rate goon. He doesn't want the puck as it just embarrasses him. I didn't see him this year, so maybe he has improved. But essentially I remember him as a charging machine.

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08-27-2013, 06:00 PM
  #116
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Interesting list. Just to note though, those turning 20 in 2014 can't be signed until after this season. It goes by calendar year.

Having said that, I don't see much use for Nevins. Having seen his first couple of years in junior, he is essentially a second rate goon. He doesn't want the puck as it just embarrasses him. I didn't see him this year, so maybe he has improved. But essentially I remember him as a charging machine.
That's a good thing to know so the Habs are trying players out with next season in mind, for Hamilton Bulldogs. Louick Marcotte could do himself some favors by taking good care of Mantha the 6'5" Val d'Or sniper. Nevins job I assume is taking care of Alex Pepin in his draft year. It's more a matter of accomplishing an offensive game at the same time for these guys.

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08-31-2013, 02:43 AM
  #117
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I have always been a believer of having a strong AHL team to develop a winning system, but with the success of our young players last season maybe that is not necessary.

Maybe fewer veterans means more playing time and responsibility. Most of our call ups looked NHL ready, so maybe winning the Calder Cup shouldn't be the goal. It sucks for Bulldog fans, and is hard on the players, but maybe it is better for the Habs.

Is there any correlation between AHL and NHL success?
I have often wondered as well. The way I see it is that very good NHL prospects move through the AHL very quickly, or skip it all together, in the case of top 5 picks.

Thus there may be no correlation. But Montreal and others who know way more are free to correct me!

I still feel that a winning environment is important, and that the AHL is also very important in introducing European players to the NA game and ice size.

As long as the Dogs are coached with an eye on Habs development, win a little more than they lose due to hard work and discipline, and teach Euro players the NA ropes, I will be happy.

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08-31-2013, 09:19 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
That's a good thing to know so the Habs are trying players out with next season in mind, for Hamilton Bulldogs. Louick Marcotte could do himself some favors by taking good care of Mantha the 6'5" Val d'Or sniper. Nevins job I assume is taking care of Alex Pepin in his draft year. It's more a matter of accomplishing an offensive game at the same time for these guys.
Marcotte can take care of himself, but he is far from a powerfoward nor a fighter. He is like Max Pacioretty in the physical department.

Edit: I remember Stefan Matteau slashing around 10 times in a game last season P้pin. And Nevins was skating trying to kill Matteau all game long. The Blainville player tried to save his life by running and hiding behind the refs. Finally, they, Matteau and Nevins, fought but Stefan wasn't really interested in a fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
Interesting list. Just to note though, those turning 20 in 2014 can't be signed until after this season. It goes by calendar year.

Having said that, I don't see much use for Nevins. Having seen his first couple of years in junior, he is essentially a second rate goon. He doesn't want the puck as it just embarrasses him. I didn't see him this year, so maybe he has improved. But essentially I remember him as a charging machine.
I guess that he improved a lot then. I saw all his games last season and he was really good (in his role: 3rd line physical monster with a bit of offense). He doesn't have a good shot, but his skating is fine. He is an agressive/effective forechecker. He is a good fighter and an extremely good hitter, a bulldozer. He was a Chris Neil for PEI. I don't think that he can be more than a AHL 4th liner though.


Last edited by ccgg: 08-31-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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Old
09-01-2013, 01:27 AM
  #119
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Looking forward to seeing what Dietz can provide.

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09-08-2013, 11:57 PM
  #120
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Thomas, Lashoff, St-Pierre, Nygren and Andrighetto should be real significant additions to the Dogs.

Beaulieu, Tinordi (most likely), Pateryn, Ellis, Holland, Bournival are all a year older which is a pretty big difference in Dog years.

Nygren alone will most likely single handedly turn that PP around. Can't see him not lighting it up big time.

Dietz won't hurt either and will be eased in with easy minutes I'm sure.

can't see them not making the playoffs and possibly doing some damage.

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09-09-2013, 12:23 AM
  #121
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Here is my potential line up :

Bournival – Leblanc – Dumont

I would like ot see Bournival go from 30 to 50 points. I'd like Leblanc to show he shook off his injury and he is the best centerman of the team. Dumotn is a veteran on the team now.

Tarnasky – Chaput – Thomas

Tarnasky is a veteran, Chaput showed alot of promise last season and Thomas is close to the NHL.

Andrighetto – St. Pierre – Blunden

Here I am pairing Andrighetto with 2 veterans to help him adapt to the pro level. St. Pierre is an established veteran in the AHL and Blunden can play the big brother role.

MacAuley/Nystrom – Duffy/Nattinen – Fournier/Holland/Quailer

These players will have to fight for a roster spot. Holland had somewhat of a tough season last year and I hope that a demotion will be the spark needed. Quailer disapointed me last season and I'm inclined to give his spot to Fournier as it is.

Tinordi – Beaulieu
Nygren – Pateryn
Ellis – Schiestel

Obvious picks here, they all have pro experience. Chouinard/Dietz/Grassi, will have to prove they deserve a roster spot, I expect Dietz to establish himself during the season.

Tokarski/Mayer/Delmas/Condon

Condon will have to prove he is above the others.

I am not dismissing the fact that Dumont and/or Tinordi could start in the NHL.

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09-09-2013, 09:26 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Here is my potential line up :

Bournival – Leblanc – Dumont

I would like ot see Bournival go from 30 to 50 points. I'd like Leblanc to show he shook off his injury and he is the best centerman of the team. Dumotn is a veteran on the team now.

Tarnasky – Chaput – Thomas

Tarnasky is a veteran, Chaput showed alot of promise last season and Thomas is close to the NHL.

Andrighetto – St. Pierre – Blunden

Here I am pairing Andrighetto with 2 veterans to help him adapt to the pro level. St. Pierre is an established veteran in the AHL and Blunden can play the big brother role.

MacAuley/Nystrom – Duffy/Nattinen – Fournier/Holland/Quailer

These players will have to fight for a roster spot. Holland had somewhat of a tough season last year and I hope that a demotion will be the spark needed. Quailer disapointed me last season and I'm inclined to give his spot to Fournier as it is.

Tinordi – Beaulieu
Nygren – Pateryn
Ellis – Schiestel

Obvious picks here, they all have pro experience. Chouinard/Dietz/Grassi, will have to prove they deserve a roster spot, I expect Dietz to establish himself during the season.

Tokarski/Mayer/Delmas/Condon

Condon will have to prove he is above the others.

I am not dismissing the fact that Dumont and/or Tinordi could start in the NHL.
1) Leblanc has been at RW in the AHL and I don't see that changing. If Dumont is sent down he would likely be the center. Though a Bournival Dumont Leblanc line would be interesting.

2) Chaput was ok last year but no way should he be in the top 6 imo, I wouldnt' have Tarnasky there either.

3) Holland had his ups and downs for sure but he still was one of the better forwards last season and now you have him fighting for a spot? I think he's a lock for a top 9 position although his lack of strength is a major concern.

4) On defense I don't see them putting Beaulieu at RD, I would assume he will be paired with Pateryn again. Nygren I believe only plays RD. Also Schiestel saw time in the ECHL last year, imo he's more of a depth D so I would expect Dietz to get a regular spot unless he really struggles with the adjustment.

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09-09-2013, 10:09 AM
  #123
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Considering Dumont/Tinordi are habs because of injuries

Thomas - St-Pierre- Leblanc
Holland - Bournival - Blunden
Andrighetto - Chaput - Quailer
Tarnasky - Nattinen - Fournier

Beaulieu - Pateryn
Ellis - Nygren
Schiestel - Dietz
(I'm sure I'm forgetting someone on D, can't remember who)

Tokarski
Mayer

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09-09-2013, 10:12 AM
  #124
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Considering Dumont/Tinordi are habs because of injuries

Thomas - St-Pierre- Leblanc
Holland - Bournival - Blunden
Andrighetto - Chaput - Quailer
Tarnasky - Nattinen - Fournier

Beaulieu - Pateryn
Ellis - Nygren
Schiestel - Dietz
(I'm sure I'm forgetting someone on D, can't remember who)

Tokarski
Mayer
Thrower maybe? I'm hoping Fournier can stand out on the 4th line, I hope he pans out, GREAT teammate.

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09-09-2013, 10:17 AM
  #125
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Thrower maybe? I'm hoping Fournier can stand out on the 4th line, I hope he pans out, GREAT teammate.
I see Thrower in Vancouver after last year. He needs to confidence boost.

I guess Grassi and Chouinard are the other options. The D kinda need Tinordi to be better:

Tinordi - Nygren
Beaulieu - Pateryn
Ellis/Schiestel/Dietz/Grassi/Chouinard

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