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The Off-Season Thread Part VI - Are we there yet? (Grabovski to Caps, 1 yr)

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Old
08-23-2013, 07:41 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Yeah, this latest interview suggests that he isn't more than a figurehead these days. It has probably been more or less like that for years. He seems so disconnected from the game.
Then cede the GM position to Gorton and retain the President title.

Its not only selfish, but its awfully ballsy considering the lack of success hes had here. Not a fan of the man at all, but this is the first time I've heard him sound like a completely out of touch dolt.

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08-23-2013, 07:43 PM
  #302
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I am not saying that Slats hasn't done a decent job here in NY lately, but this is basically pretty scary:
"If you run a forechecking system, your centericemen is going to be the player highest up ice".

Yeah, that was the case in 1985. Was it the case in 1992? I doubt it was the case for many teams. It has not even remotely been the case in the NHL the last 15 years. I know we had our centers really high up ice in 03' when Slats coached, but still back then our LW got in first no doubt.
Hes also built a team with 4 centers that aren't exactly great skaters.

He continues to pour jigsaw puzzles all over new coaches.

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08-23-2013, 08:35 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Glen Sathers Cigar View Post
I'm sorry, but I HATE this argument. Enlighten us, what exactly do the failures of past Rangers teams have to do with the current one? You think the fact that the Rangers missed the playoffs for 7 consecutive years in the late 90s/early 2000s, haven't won a cup in 19 years and only advanced those amount of times in 19 years has ANYTHING to do with our current team? Hell, our team is completely different from the 2011-12 team!

This mentality you and other jaded fans have, while understandable, is nothing but how you look at it. The current core has been working towards something for 3-4 seasons. However, you let failures from your 50+ years as a fan dictate how you feel about the current squad. It's just irritating to hear. Yes, the Rangers have disappointed all of us many times, but that has nothing to do with the upcoming season. Was Nash on the Rangers when they didn't win a playoff series for however many years in a 6 team league? Was Callahan the captain when we missed the playoffs those 7 years in a row? No. And sure, no cup in 19 years, but let's face it: only one team can win it all. In those 19 years only 11 teams have won a Stanley Cup. That leaves 19 teams who haven't. Does that mean we're not close? Absolutely not.

We all get discouraged as fans when things don't go our way (i.e win the cup) but we have to look at the current team and their chances. I like this group and depending on how they play under A.V, I think they have a shot at being contenders. What the Neil Smith Rangers did or what the early Sather Rangers did or what the Espo Rangers did means NOTHING to how the current Rangers will do. The only thing those things impact is your psyche as a fan. How YOU look at the team, not how the current team will perform.
This is a very well thought out, succinctly and poigantly stated post which makes a lot of sense, even to a hardhead like me. To be completely fair and honest(even though my opinion will perhaps always be somewhat negative), I would feel a whole lot better about the direction of this team if Sather would just retire already and give someone else a kick at the tires. That being said, I'm really not sure about the current roster as it is right now.

Perhaps things will come together and we'll end up doing well.

I appreciate the thoughtful words; every now and then, a dose of reality is good for some of us!

Enjoy the rest of the summer.

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08-23-2013, 08:37 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
We can go back and forth on this, and plenty of us have throughout the offseason.

But, "he refused to try something else" is a simplistic answer not really rooted in reality. Massive roster turnover, shortened season, and a team that actually played much better after Sather decided to actually replenish some depth at the deadline. You act as if "trying something else" is just a switch that can be turned at a moment's notice.

Boston is just a better/deeper team. Why is that so hard to admit?
You're right and it isn't that hard to admit for some fans.

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08-23-2013, 08:40 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat it.

I find it interesting that the attacks levied against Tortorella are very similar to the attacks levied against Renney. Namely, they didnt field teams that produced enough offense.

The stark reality of a limited roster will hit any coach right between the eyes. Its easy for fans, with their 15 jerseys of the players they love so much, to turn a blind eye to their limitations.
Giddy up; I believe you're on to something!

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08-23-2013, 08:47 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
How dare you mock the teflon GM for life! 13 years in and things are still going right according to plan
Complete wiith 6 coaches and 4 rebuilds. Kinda has taken on a life all it's own, hasn't it?

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08-23-2013, 08:50 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Yeah, this latest interview suggests that he isn't more than a figurehead these days. It has probably been more or less like that for years. He seems so disconnected from the game.
I believe the game passed him by a long time ago. Let's face facts, Sather is gonna milk this cow(Dolan) until it has no **** left!

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08-23-2013, 09:15 PM
  #308
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For me, when I think that Tortorella "refused to try something else," it has nothing to do with the offense. It has everything to do with consistently allowing the other team to gain the zone unmolested to set up for shots from the point, and then consistently trying to weakly throw the puck up the boards where it was inevitably regained by the opposing team who simply started throwing it on net again. The complete refusal to pressure the point men at all elevated Torey Krug to the position of God of Men until he played a team that actually made him work for it a bit.

Going back and watching some of those games, you'll see Rangers players with a clear, unimpeded lane up the middle; they look directly at it, then try, again, unsuccessfully, to throw it up the boards.

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Old
08-23-2013, 09:35 PM
  #309
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The main reason this offseason needs to end already is so Jim Cerny can stop trying to be funny on the Rangers twitter

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08-23-2013, 10:34 PM
  #310
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lol he's a dork

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08-23-2013, 11:21 PM
  #311
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I loved it when Beaves called him out 2 years ago when Jim forced him to answer a pedestrian "appeal to the average casual NYR fan" question about the identity, resiliency, and character of the team to bounce back in the game for the 197th time. "You ask me that every time, I don't know what you want me to say. Obviously it speaks to the....."

It's nice that the players are really friendly around him though. I do wish we had a less "Barney the big purple dinosaur" guy doing player interviews though. Someone who's not clearly a drone of the Dolan-MSG empire.

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08-24-2013, 06:36 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hes also built a team with 4 centers that aren't exactly great skaters.

He continues to pour jigsaw puzzles all over new coaches.
Yeah, Brassard would be the exception maybe. And Dom Moore can of course skate. But last year, we were darn slow at center ice for sure.

I agree with him though that you can't really have too many centers.

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Old
08-24-2013, 07:27 AM
  #313
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Cerny has been on vacation with week. Someone else is running the twitter feed this week. Maybe its Matt who runs Blueshirts United.

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Old
08-25-2013, 02:38 AM
  #314
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Tan man back to MSG?

  • Stepan will get around $3M on a 2 year bridge deal
  • Trade Pyatt for a pick and a prospect. We are due for doing a deal with Phoenix again
  • Sign Vinny Propspal to a one year deal for $1M + $1M in deferable bonuses. We need his tan. And his 45 - 50 points. The new CBA gives a one year opportunity to pick up OK talent on the cheap. Most rosters are full already and a lot of UFAs and some RFAs are still unsigned. Use this!
  • Asham and Powe have already been waived and will likely be so again. They can also be recalled again if injuries pile up without having to go through waivers if they go unclaimed
  • One of defenders Johnson or Falk will start the year in the AHL obliterating the 8th Dman salary and roster spot
  • Callahan and Hagelin have both had offseason surgery and will both be out to start the year, one or both possibly placed on LTIR
  • One of Miller/Fast/Kristo will likely make the team to begin with with Cally and Hagelin out
  • One of Mashinter/Haley will likely make the team as a spare to provide added toughness especially in divisional games

With all this in mind and nobody placed on LTIR - it all still fits capwise
Do not take these as given lines btw!!!
When Cally and Hagelin return - then sending 1-2 guys down, we should have quite the offensive depth as well. No more Matt Gilroy or Stu Bickell playing 4th line minutes...

FORWARDS
Vinny Prospal ($2.000m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek Stepan ($3.000m) / Mats Zuccarello ($1.150m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.300m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / J.T. Miller or Jesper Fast (MAX $1.244m)
Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Dominic Moore ($1.000m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Brandon Mashinter or Micheal Haley (MAX $0.605m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
Michael Del Zotto ($2.550m) / John Moore ($0.965m)
Justin Falk ($0.975m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)

INJURED (Might be placed on LTIR??)
Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m)

OTHER
Buried: Darroll Powe ($0.142m)
Buried: Arron Asham ($0.075m)
------
SALARY TOTALS
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000
CAP PAYROLL: $65,730,833
BONUSES: $3,287,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $856,667

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08-25-2013, 02:44 AM
  #315
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I would like Prospal back, can never have too much leadership. He'd be especially useful if Kreider flops.

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08-25-2013, 03:33 AM
  #316
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When we are on this point of trading with Phoenix already...
What about trading Pyatt, a 2nd round pick and a mid-level prospect (Bourque/Yogan/Jean/MSC) for Henrik Samuelsson?
Reunite Father & Son...
Phoenix needs more depth forwards ready to play now. Pyatt fits that bill
Add some more to this and I think we might be on to something

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08-25-2013, 04:24 AM
  #317
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Just out of curiosity, what is the last day we can sign Steps?

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08-25-2013, 04:28 AM
  #318
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Just out of curiosity, what is the last day we can sign Steps?
Sometime in November/December, I think.

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Old
08-25-2013, 07:40 AM
  #319
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Where did our UFAs go?

Something like?:

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS 2013 (13)
Nr Pos Player Caphit 2013 Caphit 2014 Team 2014 Drafted
1 F Clowe, Ryane $3,625,000 $4,850,000 New Jersey Devils/NHL R6 #175 San Jose (2001)
2 D Eminger, Steve $750,000 Unknown Admiral Vladivostok/KHL R1 #12 Washington (2002)
3 D Gilroy, Matt $650,000 $700,000 Florida Panthers/NHL Undrafted
4 D Niemi, Jyri $700,000 Unknown HPK/SM-liiga R3 #72 NYI (2008)
5 F Segal, Brandon $550,000 $550,000 Washington Capitals/NHL R4 #102 Nashville (2002)
6 F Ferrerio, Benn $525,000 $550,000 Vancouver Canucks/NHL R7 #201 San Jose (2004)
7 F Delisle, Steven $525,000 Unknown - AHL contractAdirondack Phantoms/AHLR4 #107 Columbus Blue Jackets (2007)
8 D Hamrlik, Roman $3,500,000 0 (Retires) ?? R1 #1 Washington (1992)
9 D Sauer, Michael $1,250,000 0 (Retires)?? R2 #40 NYR (2005)
10 D Pyett, Logan $600,000 0 ?? Unsigned R7 #212 Detroit (2006)
11 D Collins, Sean $600,000 0 ?? Unsigned Undrafted
12 D Vernace, Mike $525,000 0 ?? Unsigned R7 #201 San Jose (2004)
13 F Palmieri, Nick $525,000 0 ?? Unsigned R3 #79 New Jersey Devils (2007)

New CBA making life especially hard in scrubland


Last edited by BBKers: 08-25-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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08-25-2013, 07:59 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Something like?:

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS 2013 (13)
Nr Pos Player Caphit 2013 Caphit 2014 Team 2014 Drafted
1 F Clowe, Ryane $3,625,000 $4,850,000 New Jersey Devils/NHL R6 #175 San Jose (2001)
2 D Eminger, Steve $750,000 Unknown Admiral Vladivostok/KHL R1 #12 Washington (2002)
3 D Niemi, Jyri $700,000 Unknown HPK/SM-liiga R3 #72 NYI (2008)
4 F Segal, Brandon $550,000 $550,000 Washington Capitals/NHL R4 #102 Nashville (2002)
5 F Ferrerio, Benn $525,000 $550,000 Vancouver Canucks/NHL R7 #201 San Jose (2004)
6 F Delisle, Steven $525,000 Unknown - AHL contractAdirondack Phantoms/AHLR4 #107 Columbus Blue Jackets (2007)
7 D Hamrlik, Roman $3,500,000 0 (Retires) ?? R1 #1 Washington (1992)
8 D Sauer, Michael $1,250,000 0 (Retires)?? R2 #40 NYR (2005)
9 D Gilroy, Matt $650,000 0 ?? Unsigned Undrafted
10 D Pyett, Logan $600,000 0 ?? Unsigned R7 #212 Detroit (2006)
11 D Collins, Sean $600,000 0 ?? Unsigned Undrafted
12 D Vernace, Mike $525,000 0 ?? Unsigned R7 #201 San Jose (2004)
13 F Palmieri, Nick $525,000 0 ?? Unsigned R3 #79 NEw Jersey Devils (2007)

New CBA making life especially hard in scrubland
I'm surprised Eminger couldn't get an NHL contract, he was excellent as a #7. I honestly prefer him over Falk, but Falk does still have upside that Eminger lacks.

Ferriero is another guy I would have liked to keep, who is a guy I wanted to see on the 4th line basically all of last year. I definitely prefer him over his Sharks buddy Mashinter.

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08-25-2013, 09:08 AM
  #321
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I'm surprised Eminger couldn't get an NHL contract, he was excellent as a #7. I honestly prefer him over Falk, but Falk does still have upside that Eminger lacks.

Ferriero is another guy I would have liked to keep, who is a guy I wanted to see on the 4th line basically all of last year. I definitely prefer him over his Sharks buddy Mashinter.
and somehow Florida signed Matt Gilroy.. how did he find a job im sure some team will sign Eminger by October... he is still a decent dman... JD called Eminger a future star.. he did wear the A at the age of 22.. i wonder why he didnt progress.. high draft pick by the Capitals.

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08-25-2013, 10:41 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Something like?:

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS 2013 (13)
Nr Pos Player Caphit 2013 Caphit 2014 Team 2014 Drafted
1 F Clowe, Ryane $3,625,000 $4,850,000 New Jersey Devils/NHL R6 #175 San Jose (2001)
2 D Eminger, Steve $750,000 Unknown Admiral Vladivostok/KHL R1 #12 Washington (2002)
3 D Gilroy, Matt $650,000 $700,000 Florida Panthers/NHL Undrafted
4 D Niemi, Jyri $700,000 Unknown HPK/SM-liiga R3 #72 NYI (2008)
5 F Segal, Brandon $550,000 $550,000 Washington Capitals/NHL R4 #102 Nashville (2002)
6 F Ferrerio, Benn $525,000 $550,000 Vancouver Canucks/NHL R7 #201 San Jose (2004)
7 F Delisle, Steven $525,000 Unknown - AHL contractAdirondack Phantoms/AHLR4 #107 Columbus Blue Jackets (2007)
8 D Hamrlik, Roman $3,500,000 0 (Retires) ?? R1 #1 Washington (1992)
9 D Sauer, Michael $1,250,000 0 (Retires)?? R2 #40 NYR (2005)
10 D Pyett, Logan $600,000 0 ?? Unsigned R7 #212 Detroit (2006)
11 D Collins, Sean $600,000 0 ?? Unsigned Undrafted
12 D Vernace, Mike $525,000 0 ?? Unsigned R7 #201 San Jose (2004)
13 F Palmieri, Nick $525,000 0 ?? Unsigned R3 #79 New Jersey Devils (2007)

New CBA making life especially hard in scrubland
Scrubland yes sir life is tough for them

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Old
08-25-2013, 10:45 AM
  #323
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For me, when I think that Tortorella "refused to try something else," it has nothing to do with the offense. It has everything to do with consistently allowing the other team to gain the zone unmolested to set up for shots from the point, and then consistently trying to weakly throw the puck up the boards where it was inevitably regained by the opposing team who simply started throwing it on net again. The complete refusal to pressure the point men at all elevated Torey Krug to the position of God of Men until he played a team that actually made him work for it a bit.

Going back and watching some of those games, you'll see Rangers players with a clear, unimpeded lane up the middle; they look directly at it, then try, again, unsuccessfully, to throw it up the boards.
This so ****ing hard.

What a surprise that Krug had one point between the Pens and Blackhawks series, and was even the goat in some of those game for turnovers off pressure from the opposing team. What a concept.

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08-25-2013, 12:18 PM
  #324
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The Rangers didnt pressure the point men ALL YEAR and thats how teams scored the majority of their goals on Hank. So ridiculous not to change that

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08-25-2013, 12:30 PM
  #325
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But what did they gain by that strategy? They gained rarely having odd man situations along the half boards/down low. Rarely allowed 2-on-1s down low because there was always a collapsing forward to help out. Given that Henrik plays deep, risking deflections (that he would have more time to react to due to his style) but taking away lateral deke/pass plays makes a lot of sense to me.

It's nearly impossible to employ a strategy that defends against everything all the time. I think the Rangers did a damn good job of coming close. Everyone always whines about fixing things with zero thought given to what leaks doing so will open up.

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