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Boyle, Couture, Thornton, Vlasic; Pavelski & Niemi invited to Olympic camps

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08-16-2013, 08:58 AM
  #151
Barrie22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
The fact that Boyle has been invited to Camp Canada should say something about him still having skills and not "falling off a cliff" like some Sharks posters have been harping on.. But hey , what do those guys coaching Team Canada know, right?? Not every Canadian Dman gets invited. So just maybe all you so called "experts" should just chill and see how this season plays out before leaving Danny boy for dead...
being invited at defense isn't that great of an achievement when you look at the players invited, canada is deep at forward not so much at defense.

the top 17 defense according to team canada includes marc methot, travis hamonic.

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08-16-2013, 10:26 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
The fact that Boyle has been invited to Camp Canada should say something about him still having skills and not "falling off a cliff" like some Sharks posters have been harping on.. But hey , what do those guys coaching Team Canada know, right?? Not every Canadian Dman gets invited. So just maybe all you so called "experts" should just chill and see how this season plays out before leaving Danny boy for dead...
You know, it's very difficult to have a discussion with you when you spend so much time talking down on the rest of us.

Boyle has been trending downwards the last two years and we're not sure if it's because of age or because of the injury he had two years ago and him having to play with Irwin the last year. So maybe he just had a couple of bad years like the rest of the team and he'll return to form. However, you can see his age is starting to catch up with him and we don't know whether he can keep it up when a lot of his game involved his skating ability.

So, as fans we like to speculate what we would do with Boyle if we were in the GMs shoes. Some people here are more stubborn with their positions than others but none ever claim they're experts.

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08-16-2013, 11:08 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
The fact that Boyle has been invited to Camp Canada should say something about him still having skills and not "falling off a cliff" like some Sharks posters have been harping on.. But hey , what do those guys coaching Team Canada know, right?? Not every Canadian Dman gets invited. So just maybe all you so called "experts" should just chill and see how this season plays out before leaving Danny boy for dead...
I agree that Boyle being invited does say something about his skills, it also says something about the options Canada has at defense. However, even with the iffy 2013 season he (and the entire team) had he was still the QB of one of the best PP's in the NHL and the Canada brass look at more then a shortened season when putting their invite lists together. I still don't think, barring injuries, he has a good chance at making the team.

After two (2010/11 & 2011/12) of what I believe were Boyle's best seasons as an NHL defenseman I agree that last year was probably more of an anomaly then him suddenly falling off a cliff. In my opinion, the only skaters who played anywhere close to their potential in 2013 were Couture and Vlasic and that's a huge reason why reading too much into a shortened season doesn't seem like a good idea to me. 2013 was a seriously strange season for the Sharks but even with Boyle's age I still believe this team would be in a world of hurt w/o him.

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08-16-2013, 11:48 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
You know, it's very difficult to have a discussion with you when you spend so much time talking down on the rest of us.

Boyle has been trending downwards the last two years and we're not sure if it's because of age or because of the injury he had two years ago and him having to play with Irwin the last year. So maybe he just had a couple of bad years like the rest of the team and he'll return to form. However, you can see his age is starting to catch up with him and we don't know whether he can keep it up when a lot of his game involved his skating ability.

So, as fans we like to speculate what we would do with Boyle if we were in the GMs shoes. Some people here are more stubborn with their positions than others but none ever claim they're experts.
Pot calling the kettle black?? Rest of who?? There are only a few here on this board that come across as know-it-alls and are condescending...And they know who they are..As for the rest of the Sharks fans, I think they are Awesome and enjoy their input and takes on things..Which is why I enjoy talking hockey..Some examples:

SJEASY- loaded with stats and info, very insightful, don't always agree with him but he never puts people down.

Stalockrox,WTF- you 2 are a wealth of knowledge, especially on the youngsters. totally respect your insights.

Lady Stanley-need I say more ?
SLOCAL-photoshop Master and the straw that stirs the GTDs we have come to love.
Barrie22
KM
Dooglas
Arch
Orr4
GeneP
Vaasa
to name but a few, knowledgable yet always having fun and having insightful ideas without the chest pounding. Sorry if I left a few people off the list.

I am here to discuss hockey, not have people slam others thoughts because they think/have to be right all the time. I take my jabs at those who come across as arrogant, sue me

And yes Dooglas, it does feel like high school on here sometimes




Or maybe since it is a team sport, the rest of the team play could factor in as well?? TMac's system? Guys not shooting the puck? No net front presence? Only 2 scoring lines? Down year?
How about DB end to end rush with the puck and subsequent high-lite goal last year? Sure looks like he still has the wheels and ability to be our #1PMD..And he sure looked solid in the PO's.. The point is that for all the negativity aimed at Boyle, you could apply that logic to almost everyone on the team who has "regressed". Although DB is the only 37 yr old on the team, he is still in great health and has plenty left in the tank, or so he says..
Didn't Chelios play past 40? He was very effective in his late 30's.
And since nobody here is willing to let the rookies/youngsters earn their stripes, moving Boyle makes no sense whatsoever. Look what happened when I rosterbated having Neito in the top 9...

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08-16-2013, 11:54 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
I agree that Boyle being invited does say something about his skills, it also says something about the options Canada has at defense. However, even with the iffy 2013 season he (and the entire team) had he was still the QB of one of the best PP's in the NHL and the Canada brass look at more then a shortened season when putting their invite lists together. I still don't think, barring injuries, he has a good chance at making the team.

After two (2010/11 & 2011/12) of what I believe were Boyle's best seasons as an NHL defenseman I agree that last year was probably more of an anomaly then him suddenly falling off a cliff. In my opinion, the only skaters who played anywhere close to their potential in 2013 were Couture and Vlasic and that's a huge reason why reading too much into a shortened season doesn't seem like a good idea to me. 2013 was a seriously strange season for the Sharks but even with Boyle's age I still believe this team would be in a world of hurt w/o him.

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08-16-2013, 02:36 PM
  #156
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@FeedingFrenzy

I agree with you that it's too early to write of Boyle as done but I just don't like the way you treat some of the other people's opinions.

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08-16-2013, 03:54 PM
  #157
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Boyle got invited because he's a veteran, Stanley Cup winner who was on the 2010 team. It has little to do with the player he is now.

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08-16-2013, 05:47 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Boyle got invited because he's a veteran, Stanley Cup winner who was on the 2010 team. It has little to do with the player he is now.
This statement makes now sense. The player "he is now" is a veteran, Stanley Cup Winner who had a successful 2010 Olympics.

Experience matters.

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08-16-2013, 08:05 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
This statement makes now sense. The player "he is now" is a veteran, Stanley Cup Winner who had a successful 2010 Olympics.

Experience matters.
Sure it does, just look at the 2006 canadian olympic team filled with experienced old guard players, that worked out oh so well for canada.

Oh you mean to tell me that they could not keep up on the larger ice surface and finished 7th? I guess it does not mean much after all.

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08-17-2013, 02:29 AM
  #160
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Who is above Boyle in the depth chart here?

Jay Bouwmeester
Dan Hamhuis
Brent Seabrook
Dion Phaneuf
Mike Green
Marc Staal
Marc-Édouard Vlasic
Travis Hamonic
Karl Alzner
Marc Methot

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08-17-2013, 02:33 AM
  #161
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Hamhuis and Seabrook, possibly Green (more dynamic offensively).

Petro, Weber, Keith, and Doughty are locks. Three of those guys are righties.

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08-17-2013, 02:49 AM
  #162
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I would like to see Methot, Staal, and Vlasic make Team Canada for they Marc-iness of it all.

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08-17-2013, 03:30 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Hamhuis and Seabrook, possibly Green (more dynamic offensively).

Petro, Weber, Keith, and Doughty are locks. Three of those guys are righties.
If they take Keith, I figure Seabrook goes too. They were the shutdown pair in the last Olympics. Now?

I also figure they go with the hot guys, Subban and/or Letang. Letang is far beyond Boyle for puck skills. There is also the Crosby connection for Letang. I do figure that one of Letang/Subban go just to be on the first unit PP.

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08-17-2013, 05:01 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
If they take Keith, I figure Seabrook goes too. They were the shutdown pair in the last Olympics. Now?

I also figure they go with the hot guys, Subban and/or Letang. Letang is far beyond Boyle for puck skills. There is also the Crosby connection for Letang. I do figure that one of Letang/Subban go just to be on the first unit PP.
I knew I was missing a couple righties. Letang would go ahead of Boyle for offense, and probably Subban too.

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08-17-2013, 10:21 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Who is above Boyle in the depth chart here?

Jay Bouwmeester
Dan Hamhuis
Brent Seabrook
Dion Phaneuf
Mike Green
Marc Staal
Marc-Édouard Vlasic
Travis Hamonic
Karl Alzner
Marc Methot
Team Canada is absolutely loaded on right side D - Pietrangelo, Weber, Doughty, (all three are locks) Subban, Letang...they are not so loaded on the left and I wouldn't be surprised if they move one of their RD to LD.

However, on your above list there isn't anyone I'd definitively put ahead of Boyle right now as most bring a very different skill set (and I seem to like Boyle more then a lot of fans on here and I'm sure many will disagree) but several of those guys are left side d-men and depending on what type of defense TC wants to bring, I just don't think Boyle is likely to make the team.

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08-17-2013, 12:12 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
If they take Keith, I figure Seabrook goes too. They were the shutdown pair in the last Olympics. Now?

I also figure they go with the hot guys, Subban and/or Letang. Letang is far beyond Boyle for puck skills. There is also the Crosby connection for Letang. I do figure that one of Letang/Subban go just to be on the first unit PP.
what does this even mean?

boyle is fantastic with the puck...he almost had the goal of the year because of it. not to mention making that colorado player look foolish on the blue line.

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08-17-2013, 01:23 PM
  #167
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what does this even mean?

boyle is fantastic with the puck...he almost had the goal of the year because of it. not to mention making that colorado player look foolish on the blue line.

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08-17-2013, 04:06 PM
  #168
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love that video clip..DB IS still sick on his skates,and controls the puck with the precision of a surgeon.....

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08-17-2013, 04:57 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
what does this even mean?

boyle is fantastic with the puck...he almost had the goal of the year because of it. not to mention making that colorado player look foolish on the blue line.
Thanks LZ for the Boyle clip, at his peak Boyle was very, very good. Now that we have seen that, go look at clips of Letang. Letang, Karlsson and Campbell far surpass Boyle on skating. Maybe Jux will chip in. I am only counting guys who bring offense as well and I am leaving those out who are closer to Boyle (Keith, Doughty). I am also leaving out those without quite the offense. You have Yandle who has more raw speed but isn't quite as nifty, Ehrhoff more raw speed, Green who might not be so smart, and JJ who really isn't that smart. You need to do comparison's with others and you need to watch a lot of them to see it. I haven't seen enough of Subban to get a read on his skating.


Last edited by SJeasy: 08-17-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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08-17-2013, 05:04 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Thanks LZ for the Boyle clip, at his peak Boyle was very, very good. Now that we have seen that, go look at clips of Letang. Letang, Karlsson and Campbell far surpass Boyle on skating. Maybe Jux will chip in. I am only counting guys who bring offense as well and I am leaving those out who are closer to Boyle (Keith, Doughty). I am also leaving out those without quite the offense. You have Yandle who has more raw speed but isn't quite as nifty, Green who might not be so smart, and JJ who really isn't that smart. You need to do comparison's with others and you need to watch a lot of them to see it. I haven't seen enough of Subban to get a read on his skating.
im only arguing the context...far beyond boyle? hardly. could you argue that letang is better than boyle with the puck right now? yes. but the gap isnt nearly as big as you are alluding to.

for instance boyle has the same PP production as letang this past season. letang killed him at ES...but just last season boyle outperformed letang across the board.

and again, shortened season for older players vs younger players will yield a lot of different observations.

I dont think that boyle will break into that roster, and id rather him get the rest during february anyway.

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08-17-2013, 05:11 PM
  #171
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im only arguing the context...far beyond boyle? hardly. could you argue that letang is better than boyle with the puck right now? yes. but the gap isnt nearly as big as you are alluding to.

for instance boyle has the same PP production as letang this past season. letang killed him at ES...but just last season boyle outperformed letang across the board.

and again, shortened season for older players vs younger players will yield a lot of different observations.

I dont think that boyle will break into that roster, and id rather him get the rest during february anyway.
They will also be looking at a very tight schedule during the Olympics which may play into an older vs younger decision.

For the issue of skating, stats don't tell the story at all. It is almost purely observation. And shorter season has nothing to do with a skating comparison. You have to get enough time watching all of them when they aren't injured.

This is more opinion, but should be borne out by observation. I consider Boyle very high end on nifty, but not so good on raw speed. When a player has both (nifty and speed), he will look better than Boyle for skating.

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08-17-2013, 05:20 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
They will also be looking at a very tight schedule during the Olympics which may play into an older vs younger decision.

For the issue of skating, stats don't tell the story at all. It is almost purely observation. And shorter season has nothing to do with a skating comparison. You have to get enough time watching all of them when they aren't injured.

This is more opinion, but should be borne out by observation. I consider Boyle very high end on nifty, but not so good on raw speed. When a player has both (nifty and speed), he will look better than Boyle for skating.
im with you...i think letang is better than boyle at skating and to some extent puck handling. I was more concerned with how far of a gap you think there is.

take into account the pens style of play for one. everyone is skating fast, going east west and with the level of players letang will arguably have more space.

i wouldnt consider boyle necessarily fast either, but he is very nifty imo, and creates space with those moves quite a bit, we chip/dump a lot though and given robinsons influence, i wouldnt be surprised if this decreased boyles forays as well.

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08-26-2013, 10:30 AM
  #173
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It sounds like Thornton might miss the entire TC orientation camp...hopefully it's nothing serious.

Stephen Whyno
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Told a family situation kept Joe Thornton from coming to Hockey Canada camp. He will try to make it to Calgary if he can.

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08-26-2013, 12:04 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
Sure it does, just look at the 2006 canadian olympic team filled with experienced old guard players, that worked out oh so well for canada.

Oh you mean to tell me that they could not keep up on the larger ice surface and finished 7th? I guess it does not mean much after all.
There were many reasons why that team did not succeed. The 2002 team was also so experienced and played exceptionally well. The 2010 team was, on average, only ~1 year younger than the 2006 team.

There is a reason why NHL GMs place a value on experience and so-called intangibles.

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08-26-2013, 12:09 PM
  #175
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I hope none of them make the team.

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