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Trading the Sedin Twins

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Old
08-26-2013, 02:43 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammman View Post
Yeah, Henrik sure does get injured a lot.
I know, right. I mean, he's missed more games than that walking injury Jay Bouwmeester.

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Old
08-26-2013, 02:46 AM
  #77
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They wont get traded while they still have good value. If they're going to another club it will be when they're downhill.

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Old
08-26-2013, 04:05 AM
  #78
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Wouldn't mind trading the Sedins to get something valuable back to kickstart a re-tooling, but I'm also fine with the Sedins becoming second line players in a few years (if they are able to be so) while having players like Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Schroeder taking bigger roles.

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Old
08-26-2013, 07:00 AM
  #79
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I think the way it would have to happen is that they become UFA's and sign somewhere else because the Canucks decided it is time to rebuild.

That doesn't seem likely.

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08-26-2013, 07:12 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Stranger things have happened. I'd see them retiring to play for MODO, but honestly...if they return to the NHL, Vancouver would have to be a favourite destination.
If packaged together , Vancouver will demand more then one bluechipper .,

I see several Ottawa/Canuck proposals and NYI/Canuck proposals. The Sens owner is claiming losses of $10m a season, roughly $94m in losses since buying the team. I am not sure the Sens would strip their prospect pool of players, who would be under cost control for 7 seasons for 1 playoff run with the Sedins.

The Isles proposals are even sillier. Is there a team in the nhl, less likely to package multiple bluechippers , for 1 playoff run? Which of Snow's comments caused posters to think Snow would jump in the trade mix? Was it when Snow said trades have to makes sense for both the short term + long term? When he told Newsday upgrades would come internally and not from big trades? Or was it his comment , that he is building a team that will be a serious cup contender for several seasons?

Even if the Canucks hold onto the Sedins until the TDL, I would expect the teams that do get into the bidding will want to speak to their reps, see if they would be acquiring players who can be re-signed.

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08-26-2013, 07:18 AM
  #81
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Seeing as they'd have to be traded together and the other team would have to have a boatload of capspace... it really limits the options.

Which contenders need two top 6 forwards and have the capspace to fit them? List gets pretty short pretty quick.

Only about 12 teams have more than 4M in capspace. A couple of those still need to lock up their RFAs. And then the vast majority of them aren't close to being contenders and probably wouldn't be all that interested to begin with.

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Old
08-26-2013, 08:33 AM
  #82
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Doubt very much the Sedins ever get traded. If they did it would probably be to Detroit for Niklas Kronwall, a 2014 1st and Gustav Nyquist.

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Old
08-26-2013, 08:35 AM
  #83
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A team would probably need to have about 14m in cap space to take on both Sedins and get them signed.

That's a tough thing to find...

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Old
08-26-2013, 08:42 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Nash
Hagelin-Stepan-Richards
Zuccarelo-Moore-Miller
Powe-Boyle-Dorsett

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Moore
Del Zotto-Stralman

Lundqvist
Nooope. Like this:

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Sedin-Sedin-Pouliot
Pyatt-Richards-Zuccarello
Boyle-Moore-Dorsett

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Strålman
Del Zotto-Moore

Lundqvist
Biron

And if I was offered that deal by Gillis I'd accept it and hang up immediately before he changed his mind. Unfortunately he won't, and even if he liked it there is still a salary cap that the Rangers wouldn't fit under.

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Old
08-26-2013, 09:32 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I hope not, but I'm liking the realism of the proposals so far. None of this "UFA next year...old...declining...Bobloblaw" and some grounded offers (even in the spirit of ***** and giggles) or the usual "give us everything" attitude I and other Canucks fans usually give when we're offered two superflouous pieces and a 2nd.
I concur. I sort of ignored this thread yesterday, assuming it would go down in train wreck fashion, but a good portion of the offers, hypothetical as they may be, are grounded in reality were the Sedins are ever traded. If we got say, the New York package, we could move out Burrows and possibly Bieksa and are "rebuilt would be over before it even began.

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Old
08-26-2013, 09:46 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
Nothing, though the Sedins' are better I'd do that trade easily just due to age. Obviously only value wise, this would never happen IRL.
I was thinking this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I disagree. The value isn't super fall off, but straight...well a younger Spezza versus Hank is pretty even, with a Spezza winning out due to age.

Michalek for Daniel is less even, even considering age.

A prospect, highish pick, or perhaps a youngish bottom six player? I don't want to ask too much, but there is a little discrepancy, not enough to demand Ceci or Zibanejad or anything, but who is considered movable in the Sens organization?



Conacher is a bit much. I was thinking Zack Smith. Seems as though the Canucks need a centre anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Cory Conacher?

Michalek-Spezza-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Conacher
Higgins-Schroeder-Hansen
Booth-Richardson-Weise

Thoughts?
To either bump Schroeder down or have Richardson play the wing.

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Old
08-26-2013, 10:42 AM
  #87
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I'll go ahead and drop Stewart, Schwartz and a 1st.

Steen-Sedin-Sedin
Oshie-Backes-Tarasenko
Paajarvi-Berglund-Rattie
etc.

Schwartz-Kesler-Stewart
Booth-Schroeder-Kassian
Hansen-Jensen-Higgins
etc.

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Old
08-26-2013, 10:52 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Nash
Hagelin-Stepan-Richards
Zuccarelo-Moore-Miller
Powe-Boyle-Dorsett

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Moore
Del Zotto-Stralman

Lundqvist
The fan in seat 222, you've just won the back-up goalie job!

Not gunna work..

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Old
08-26-2013, 10:55 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
I'll go ahead and drop Stewart, Schwartz and a 1st.

Steen-Sedin-Sedin
Oshie-Backes-Tarasenko
Paajarvi-Berglund-Rattie
etc.

Schwartz-Kesler-Stewart
Booth-Schroeder-Kassian
Hansen-Jensen-Higgins
etc.
Come on, the Blues would have to at the very least include Tarasenko.

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Old
08-26-2013, 11:02 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High And Wide View Post
Two 32 (33 in a few weeks) years olds vs 28/25/22 year olds.

So?

They dont have problems with injuries
Today players can play very well if they are veterans (40- Alfredsson, 41- Jagr,40- Brodeur,43-Selanne,....)

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Old
08-26-2013, 11:18 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Not that I think the Nucks would ever trade them, but IF for some reason they were out of it at the deadline AND the twins would waive AND the Islanders were in a playoff spot, I could see a potential match given the Isles rich prospect pool and abundance of cap room. What's a fair price tag for that type of rental? Strome + 1st? Too much?
How about Yakupov? Does that work for you?

Not that I think the Nucks would ever trade them, but IF for some reason they were out of it at the dealine AND the twins would waive, and the Oilers were in in a playoff spot, I could see a potential match given EDM's rich prospect pool.

These fantasy deals are a lot less fun when it is your team gutting
their young talent for short term bumps, no?

Anyway, I can see young teams lining up at the deadline for the Sedins, given the consistent playoff warriors they've been and their demonstrated capacity to carry a borderline team.

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Old
08-26-2013, 11:38 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
How about Yakupov? Does that work for you?

Not that I think the Nucks would ever trade them, but IF for some reason they were out of it at the dealine AND the twins would waive, and the Oilers were in in a playoff spot, I could see a potential matcht given EDM's rich prospect pool.

These fantasy deals are a lot less fun when it is your team gutting
their young talent for short term bumps, no?

Anyway, I can see young teams lining up at the deadline for the Sedins, given the consistent playoff warriors they've been and their demonstrated capacity to carry a borderline team.
But, but , but the Oilers are building with youth, building a team that is a long term contender and not looking for just a Cinderella run.

Besides, the isles are known for spending like drunken sailors. Adding $13m-$14m in salaries is not at all farfetched.

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Old
08-26-2013, 01:17 PM
  #93
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If the Canucks were going to trade the sedins (which i'm all for) it would definitely result in the end of our season. Under those circumstances there would be no reason why as a franchise we wouldn't maximize our gain by retaining salary.

I think a better question is what are the sedins worth with 50% cap hit retained?

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Old
08-26-2013, 01:45 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlnl09 View Post
If the Canucks were going to trade the sedins (which i'm all for) it would definitely result in the end of our season. Under those circumstances there would be no reason why as a franchise we wouldn't maximize our gain by retaining salary.

I think a better question is what are the sedins worth with 50% cap hit retained?
With 50% of the cap hit retained, you are still talking about a cap hit of 6 million. No contender has that room on their cap right now, and none of the teams with cap room have the payroll room.

And, I personally think that expecting VCR to retain that much is a bit unrealistic. They drew a line in the sand this summer with Luongo and are pretty clear that they are not fans of lighting money on fire.

At the deadline, maybe a deal is more likely. In that case, you are looking at dealing two players who have had two consecutive playoff failures in a row. Still, if you move them, you can look to the Iginla deal or other similar deals involving star types being moved in the summer before UFA.

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Old
08-26-2013, 01:52 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by croatNUCKS View Post
So?

They dont have problems with injuries
Today players can play very well if they are veterans (40- Alfredsson, 41- Jagr,40- Brodeur,43-Selanne,....)

It is easy to pull out a few exceptional cases. But, few players are highly productive until their late 30s, let alone early 40s.

The entire reason Nuck fans are fantasizing about trading the Sedins is that they are impending UFAs, getting on in years, and iffy in the playoffs.

Those are the exact reasons you won't get a whole lot in a deal.

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Old
08-26-2013, 02:03 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammman View Post
Yeah, Henrik sure does get injured a lot.
So you're saying that as years go by players aren't more likely to get injured? 33 years old, they should be retiring soon so they can live out the rest of their life in good health.

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Old
08-26-2013, 02:06 PM
  #97
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ITT people talking like the Sedins are second line players.

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Old
08-26-2013, 02:07 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
If packaged together , Vancouver will demand more then one bluechipper .,

I see several Ottawa/Canuck proposals and NYI/Canuck proposals. The Sens owner is claiming losses of $10m a season, roughly $94m in losses since buying the team. I am not sure the Sens would strip their prospect pool of players, who would be under cost control for 7 seasons for 1 playoff run with the Sedins.

The Isles proposals are even sillier. Is there a team in the nhl, less likely to package multiple bluechippers , for 1 playoff run? Which of Snow's comments caused posters to think Snow would jump in the trade mix? Was it when Snow said trades have to makes sense for both the short term + long term? When he told Newsday upgrades would come internally and not from big trades? Or was it his comment , that he is building a team that will be a serious cup contender for several seasons?

Even if the Canucks hold onto the Sedins until the TDL, I would expect the teams that do get into the bidding will want to speak to their reps, see if they would be acquiring players who can be re-signed.
Both Ottawa and the Islanders aren't destinations I'd call, but it was fans of these teams that made the offers...so if there are some redundancies with their prospects or players, and either team thinks they have what it takes come the post season (and the usual "Canucks fail" on our end).

As for more then one bluechipper, I agree. We are a greedy group, but I'd still be in for the right package of one bluechip prospect, picks, roster players (salary), and maybe other non-bluechip prospects. The offer of Strome for one and Reinhart for another would be...well awesome...but I can see where that would be entirely counterproductive to the Islanders' plan. I'm sure it was a "if we had the interest, and if we could part with our prospects, this is what they would be worth", not a serious fake proposal, and you needn't worry about it becoming a formal proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Doubt very much the Sedins ever get traded. If they did it would probably be to Detroit for Niklas Kronwall, a 2014 1st and Gustav Nyquist.
That's not really a package we'd want. Nyquist fits the bill, a 1st is always welcome, but Kronwall is worth far more to Detroit then to us (we just bought out a 4.2 million dollar defenseman for cap reason/team composition reasons, and Kronwall would push one of our current top four back down the bottom line). Not bad, but I think Detroit, should they be interested, could come up with something more appealing, albeit not adding value, just tweaking pieces.

Nyquist wouldn't move though, I think as a cost controlled forward, the Red Wings would like to keep him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
A team would probably need to have about 14m in cap space to take on both Sedins and get them signed.

That's a tough thing to find...
No one said we wouldn't take salary back. I mean just for the straight salaries this year, the equivalent of 12.2 in cap space is needed. I expect salary coming back, since I don't think cap floor teams are looking to add expensive forwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
I concur. I sort of ignored this thread yesterday, assuming it would go down in train wreck fashion, but a good portion of the offers, hypothetical as they may be, are grounded in reality were the Sedins are ever traded. If we got say, the New York package, we could move out Burrows and possibly Bieksa and are "rebuilt would be over before it even began.
I know, right! I mean again, this is all in fun, and so long as we take it that way, it's been a pretty friendly and open thread. Good hypothetical, contextless, value, but I just don't know if the offers (coming from other fans) would be something that would really go down on their ends, even if it's something we can get behind. No outrageous claims, no claiming they're going to just disappear...this is my happy thread in the proposal forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I was thinking this:

Conacher is a bit much. I was thinking Zack Smith. Seems as though the Canucks need a centre anyway?

To either bump Schroeder down or have Richardson play the wing.
I could probably live with Smith, Spezza and Michalek. I agree Conacher is high, and to be honest, we might not have space in our top nine for him (Michalek, Burrows, Booth, Higgins, Hansen, Kassian...and one of our rookies)...well Conacher could take a job from one our two of em, but he wouldn't be a "need" more a "want".

I guess the only other piece...are there young defenders or defence prospects that Ottawa can move?

Otherwise, yeah, Smith, Spezza and Michalek for the Sedins...if that works in Senators land (hypothetically) I think we can do that here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
I'll go ahead and drop Stewart, Schwartz and a 1st.

Steen-Sedin-Sedin
Oshie-Backes-Tarasenko
Paajarvi-Berglund-Rattie
etc.

Schwartz-Kesler-Stewart
Booth-Schroeder-Kassian
Hansen-Jensen-Higgins
etc.
Schwartz, I'd like, the first is always a plus, but I don't know if we value Stewart (who's probably a stellar linemate for Sedins) as much as as Blues fans do now. I understand we need to take salary back, but we'd need a center if we're moving Hank, thats my big concern, and I covet Schwartz more then Stewart. Backes is probably a non-starter, but does Oshie play center? And what of Steen?

Just a small side note too...didn't St Louis trade it's first last season? Would they perhaps want to include another alternative asset? If not...well I'm not saying anything like we wouldn't like it, I'm just thinking in terms of the Blues moving 1sts in consecutive years.

Not bad though.

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Old
08-26-2013, 02:18 PM
  #99
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08-26-2013, 02:21 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
It is easy to pull out a few exceptional cases. But, few players are highly productive until their late 30s, let alone early 40s.

The entire reason Nuck fans are fantasizing about trading the Sedins is that they are impending UFAs, getting on in years, and iffy in the playoffs.

Those are the exact reasons you won't get a whole lot in a deal.
Define "iffy in the playoffs" because if I'm not mistaken the Sedins' have a higher playoff PPG the last 4 years than Jonathan Toews.

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