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The Off-Season Thread Part VI - Are we there yet? (Grabovski to Caps, 1 yr)

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08-26-2013, 01:49 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Id love for you to provide some evidence that the Olympics possess some longterm benefit for NHL viewership. Until then, I'd say you are the one being dense about this.
Again, the benefit isn't a quantifiable one. I never said it was. Think of it more like a civic obligation rather than a lucrative (or not) endeavor.

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08-26-2013, 01:52 PM
  #377
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The NHL was a $3.3B business in 2011-12. It will increase for 13-14. 6 outdoor games. That growth didn't come from the NHL playing in the Olympics. When the NHL signs their new TV contracts in Canada,the Olympics aren't involved in that. The CBC and TSN contracts expire after this season. The NHL wants to add a 2nd weekend package involving Canadian teams. Rogers Sportsnet could get that.

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08-26-2013, 01:58 PM
  #378
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It should be collegiate and national team players in the Olympics.

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08-26-2013, 02:04 PM
  #379
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There are always some Americans who watch hockey during the Olympics and say "I'm going to start watching the NHL now!" And then once they realize that NHL teams are not all-star teams like the ones they see in the Olympics, and that the NHL games lack the patriotic fervor of an international tournament, they tune out.

That being said, I think having professionals play in the Olympics is a good way to grow the sport internationally. But I don't think it's particularly effective in our country as a gateway to becoming a lifelong NHL fan. As SBOB alluded to, some Americans see Olympic hockey as a "four-year" sport, just like figure skating and gymnastics.

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08-26-2013, 02:09 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
It should be collegiate and national team players in the Olympics.
Why?

The only reason people think that is because that's the way it used to be. If there wasnt history and you said "we are going to have an athletic showcase with the best a country has to offer over a wide range of sports, but we won't let you play if you get paid to do it" people would say that's incredibly dumb. Also, what does getting paid mean? Does a kid being compensated for his ability by being given a hockey scholarship count as paid or unpaid?

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08-26-2013, 02:12 PM
  #381
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Again, the benefit isn't a quantifiable one. I never said it was. Think of it more like a civic obligation rather than a lucrative (or not) endeavor.
Bringing back a regular World Cup of Hockey and holding it primarily in North America would do just as much for the game -- and it'd accomplish putting the all-important dollar into the NHL coffers and prevent a lot of the logistical headaches that the Olympics in faraway lands do.

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08-26-2013, 02:19 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Bringing back a regular World Cup of Hockey and holding it primarily in North America would do just as much for the game -- and it'd accomplish putting the all-important dollar into the NHL coffers and prevent a lot of the logistical headaches that the Olympics in faraway lands do.
Personally, I think they should do both, but I think it's important for the NHL to acknowledge that they are part of a larger world.

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08-26-2013, 02:22 PM
  #383
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Personally, I think they should do both, but I think it's important for the NHL to acknowledge that they are part of a larger world.
I dont really see a benefit for that.

Lets say you gain some fans of the game in Russia thanks to these games. Where does it go from there in the NHL?

Those people probably just say "Well, that was cool," and go right back to watching the KHL. I dont see the point in the NHL trying to expand its global outreach through the Olympics.

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08-26-2013, 02:26 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont really see a benefit for that.

Lets say you gain some fans of the game in Russia thanks to these games. Where does it go from there in the NHL?

Those people probably just say "Well, that was cool," and go right back to watching the KHL. I dont see the point in the NHL trying to expand its global outreach through the Olympics.
The benefit is that a lot of the NHL's best players come from Europe. If we want that to remain the case, we can't be so North American focused. How many fans will the NHL lose if European players play in the SEL and KHL instead?

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08-26-2013, 02:29 PM
  #385
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The NHL benefits from a game played in the middle of the night or in the early morning at the Olympics?

In 1998, Canada lost in a shootout to the Czech Republic. Nagano, Japan. How many people saw that game? It was played in the middle of the night here.

In 2006,Sweden won the gold medal in Torino. The game was played in the middle of the morning on the east coast.

The NHL isn't based in Europe. Those players play in the NHL.
I have basically seen all the Olympic finals - regardless of where I have been at the moment. Since birth.

In this order:
1964 Innsbruck (Presumably in Stockholm - 1 year old)
1968 Grenoble (Presumably in New York City - 5 years old)
1972 Sapporo (In Chicago - 9 years old)
1976 Innsbruck (In Chicago - 13 years old)
1980 Lake Placid (In Stockholm - 17 years old)
1984 Sarajevo (In Karlstad, Sweden - 21 years old in the army with Ulf Samuelsson...)
1988 Calgary (In Key West - 25 years old)
1992 Albertville (In Stockholm - 29 years old)
1994 Lillehammer (In Chicago - 31 years old)
1998 Nagano (In Stockholm - 35 years old)
2002 Salt Lake City (In Göteborg, Sweden - 39 years old)
2006 Turin (In Stockholm - 44 years old)
2010 Vancouver (In Iceland/Stockholm - 48 years old)

Some fantastic hockey and immemorable games - although I presumably missed the first two ones of my life (Dad was watching though!).

I gotta ask - is it the results of the 2 Olympics played outside North America you NA guys are dissatisfied with (since playing outside North America has yet to have provided a North American gold medalist in "real" Olympic competition) or the playing times? North American teams have yet to get even one medal outside of North American ice in "real" Olympics with NHL players participating.

Year Games Gold Silver Bronze
1998 Nagano Czech Republic (CZE) Russia (RUS) Finland (FIN)
2002 Salt Lake City Canada (CAN) United States (USA) Russia (RUS)
2006 Turin Sweden (SWE) Finland (FIN) Czech Republic (CZE)
2010 Vancouver Canada (CAN) United States (USA) Finland (FIN)
2014 Sochi??????
2018 S Korea* ??????
* NHL participation uncertain as of now...

I think the NHL participating at The Winter Olympics, in Sochi & onward, is a key for the growth of the sport hockey. And that the positives outweigh the negatives here for both the league and the sport.

Baseball and American football are basically sports created and played for the North American market (Japan being an exception) and therefore do not get the high exposure that they do at home by the world media. Hockey is not quite the global sport that soccer or basketball is, and the main reason why is because of the up-and-down popularity of the NHL (the 2 recent lockouts not being much help either).

The only way for the game to in the best way grow is IMO if the best players play it on the world stage, ie The Olympics. The NHL (still) has the best players in the world and yet is sometimes an afterthought when it comes to American sports. It's important that NHL players compete in the Winter Olympics because they are the best players in the game, it will help grow the popularity of the sport everywhere, and it makes the games on a whole in the NHL more exciting to watch. There are even some people that advocate the NHL moving to Europe in the future, a move that I would not see as positive or with great chances to succeed on a competitive nor an economic level.

If NHL players aren't playing in the Olympics, the games won´t be as exciting to watch. Canada's 3-2 overtime victory over the USA to win the gold in 2010 shattered records for hockey viewership. The gold-medal game was the most watched hockey game since the year Team USA beat Finland to complete the "Miracle on Ice." It drew 34.8 million people to their televisions to watch that classic matchup. Which then happened to be on North American ice. Think about that number!

I can get the gripe about the playing times but then again - The world happens to be a bit bigger than the North American continent and hockey is a world sport. Sometimes I sadly think people from North America tend to forget that... The business part is hardly an issue as this has de facto been decided by shrewd businessmen (owners) and players alike...


Last edited by BBKers: 08-26-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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Old
08-26-2013, 02:30 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont really see a benefit for that.

Lets say you gain some fans of the game in Russia thanks to these games. Where does it go from there in the NHL?

Those people probably just say "Well, that was cool," and go right back to watching the KHL. I dont see the point in the NHL trying to expand its global outreach through the Olympics.
I think the goal should be to grow the sport worldwide, not just in North America. It's a world economy and it will only continue to go in that direction.

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08-26-2013, 02:31 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The benefit is that a lot of the NHL's best players come from Europe. If we want that to remain the case, we can't be so North American focused. How many fans will the NHL lose if European players play in the SEL and KHL instead?
Not many, I'd imagine.

I just dont think the NHL will ever be in jeopardy of not being the best league in the world. If European players want to test themselves against the best, they'll come over regardless, and it wont be because of the Olympics.

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08-26-2013, 02:32 PM
  #388
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I think the goal should be to grow the sport worldwide, not just in North America. It's a world economy and it will only continue to go in that direction.
The NHL cant even grow the game effectively within the borders of North America, but now it should focus on being some sort of world wide entity?

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08-26-2013, 02:33 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The NHL cant even grow the game effectively within the borders of North America, but now it should focus on being some sort of world wide entity?
No, that is what the Olympics are for. The NHL is just allowing their players to play, not organizing the Olympic Games.

Wouldn't the goal be to expand the sport so that young players from all over want to come play against the best in the world?

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08-26-2013, 02:44 PM
  #390
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No, that is what the Olympics are for. The NHL is just allowing their players to play, not organizing the Olympic Games.

Wouldn't the goal be to expand the sport so that young players from all over want to come play against the best in the world?
You'll have to tell me how that doesnt happen now.

Besides Kovalchuk, which was a mess of a situation, what Euro talent doesn't want to come to the NHL because they havent heard of it?

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08-26-2013, 02:45 PM
  #391
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You'll have to tell me how that doesnt happen now.

Besides Kovalchuk, which was a mess of a situation, what Euro talent doesn't want to come to the NHL because they havent heard of it?
So what they are doing currently is working? I agree.

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08-26-2013, 02:48 PM
  #392
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So what they are doing currently is working? I agree.
I'd argue the fall of the iron curtain had far, far more to do with the influx of European talent than the NHL sending players to the Olympics starting in 1998 (of which only the 2006 games were actually in Europe).

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08-26-2013, 02:50 PM
  #393
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Love this quote:

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie 13m

Richards: Vigneault style "suits me and I think it suits everybody more on the whole team, to be honest." http://nyp.st/16LOxqQ

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08-26-2013, 02:51 PM
  #394
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Not many, I'd imagine.
Your experience on this particular board with Norwegian fans should tell you otherwise. Had Zuccarello just signed in the KHL, all of those guys (who represent just the tip of the iceberg, just as you and I represent a very, very small portion of Rangers fans overall) would never have become fans, no matter how tenuously, of NHL hockey.

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08-26-2013, 02:52 PM
  #395
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I'd argue the fall of the iron curtain had far, far more to do with the influx of European talent than the NHL sending players to the Olympics starting in 1998 (of which only the 2006 games were actually in Europe).
Well the fall of the Iron Curtain is what allowed a lot of people to do a lot of things, so you would probably be right.

What it really comes down to, for me at least, is that I thoroughly enjoy watching hockey in the Olympics. I like seeing these powerhouse teams go at it and show the passion that they sometimes lack during the regular season.

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08-26-2013, 02:54 PM
  #396
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Here's another point:

The NFL, which is one of the best run sports leagues in the entire world, has been having games over in England for a few years. They are looking to expand their sport. DO you not think they would jump at an opportunity to join the Olympics if at all possible to help expand their sport? They seem to have an eye out for expansion into other countries now.

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08-26-2013, 02:55 PM
  #397
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The NHL benefits from a game played in the middle of the night or in the early morning at the Olympics?

In 1998,Canada lost in a shootout to the Czech Republic. Nagano,Japan. How many people saw that game? It was played in the middle of the night here.

In 2006,Sweden won the gold medal in Torino. The game was played in the middle of the morning on the east coast.

The NHL isn't based in Europe. Those players play in the NHL.
None of those responses remotely answered my question.

Ask Hank what he thinks. I guarantee his gold medal is right up there with the top accomplishments of his career, right next to his Vezina.

The fact that you're judging the entire issue by what time of night/day games are played shows your limited view.

People have DVRs, games are tape delayed...

oh and people live in different timezones all over the world...

I'm sorry, but not everything happens at 8PM ET.

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08-26-2013, 02:57 PM
  #398
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Brad Richards held a golf even for his charity. He spoke to Larry Brooks

Quote:
“I haven’t talked to Alain yet in any detail about [his system], but I think his style of play will be a lot more fun for a player like me,” Richards said before hosting a golf tournament at the Scarsdale Golf Club for the benefit of his eponymously named foundation in partnership with Mount Sinai pediatrics.

“I’m excited to have a difference voice [coaching the team] and a coach with a different view of how we should play that’s more focused on offense. It suits me and I think it suits everybody more on the whole team, to be honest.”
Richards and Tortorella

Quote:
“I reached out,” Richards said. “But there’s been no talking.”
Vigneault will be meeting with the players the week before camp opens

Brooks wrote about Stepan

Quote:
Meanwhile, the negotiating stalemate continues between the Rangers and restricted free agent center Derek Stepan, who is attending the US Olympic Team orientation camp. The parties are expected to intensify efforts as camp approaches.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...0%20%20Rangers

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08-26-2013, 03:05 PM
  #399
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No excuses for Richards this year. Style of play doesn't matter if he is out of shape and can barely skate without huffing and puffing. The lack of accountability on himself for last season's performance is a bit disconcerting.

And if he doesn't play well, one would think that AV will have put Richards on a far shorter leash than Torts did.

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08-26-2013, 03:05 PM
  #400
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Agree 100% with everything RB is saying. Sooner we are done with NHLers in the olympics the better. I root for the jersey in the olympics.

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