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Havlat pelvic surgery confirmed, ineligible for compliance buyout

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Old
08-26-2013, 07:28 PM
  #351
Nolan11
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Most likely but they do have options on making it so he can be put in. However, chances are if Havlat's healthy to start the season, Hertl probably gets top line time in Worcester for a while while they build up cap space for him like they did with Logan Couture in his first year with the big club.
425K of Hertl's cap hit is performance based, so with us over the cap by 407K, technically he can stay up in the Bigs and we could defer any performance based salary to next season's cap. (Not truly desirable, but possible). Our hands are not as tied as a glance at capgeek would indicate.

Personally, if Hertl outplays others on the roster, keep him up and consider demoting someone else. (Burish would clear waivers, hiding half his salary. Hannon should clear, and we have other D to play #7 so no harm if he doesn't. Or risk losing Desi if it comes to that. I like Desi, but he is replaceable).

I hope we do start the season with a 21 man roster if Havlat is playing, so that we do build a little cushion on the cap. But ultimately, we do not HAVE to.

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08-26-2013, 07:38 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Nolan11 View Post
425K of Hertl's cap hit is performance based, so with us over the cap by 407K, technically he can stay up in the Bigs and we could defer any performance based salary to next season's cap. (Not truly desirable, but possible). Our hands are not as tied as a glance at capgeek would indicate.

Personally, if Hertl outplays others on the roster, keep him up and consider demoting someone else. (Burish would clear waivers, hiding half his salary. Hannon should clear, and we have other D to play #7 so no harm if he doesn't. Or risk losing Desi if it comes to that. I like Desi, but he is replaceable).

I hope we do start the season with a 21 man roster if Havlat is playing, so that we do build a little cushion on the cap. But ultimately, we do not HAVE to.
I can't look at capgeek right now so maybe I'm not remembering correctly but I thought the Sharks are something like $800k+ over the cap with the 22 man roster, it drops to $406k if they choose to defer Hertl's bonus...

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08-26-2013, 08:03 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
I can't look at capgeek right now so maybe I'm not remembering correctly but I thought the Sharks are something like $800k+ over the cap with the 22 man roster, it drops to $406k if they choose to defer Hertl's bonus...
it looks like $406k+ with 22 man roster.

edit: i see that it is counting 425K in bonuses this season. so yea, i think if you take that off wed be compliant.

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08-26-2013, 08:18 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
it looks like $406k+ with 22 man roster.

edit: i see that it is counting 425K in bonuses this season. so yea, i think if you take that off wed be compliant.
I would've sworn that they were over the cap by over $831k (of which $425k can defer to next season).

The last time I was on capgeek the 21 man roster w/o Hertl had the Sharks barely under the $64.3mil cap so if Havlat is healthy (likely not but for arguments sake) they couldn't go into the season with the roster that capgeek currently has of 13F, 7D, 2G.

Maybe something updated between the time I checked and now.

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08-26-2013, 08:22 PM
  #355
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Must have it looks like they could be cap complaint with hertl and havlat wtf. How many wasted conversations on dumping Burish waivers etc lol

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08-26-2013, 08:26 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
I would've sworn that they were over the cap by over $831k (of which $425k can defer to next season).

The last time I was on capgeek the 21 man roster w/o Hertl had the Sharks barely under the $64.3mil cap so if Havlat is healthy (likely not but for arguments sake) they couldn't go into the season with the roster that capgeek currently has of 13F, 7D, 2G.

Maybe something updated between the time I checked and now.
the only thing i can think of is that capgeek isnt adding the bonus. it would be -831 if you added the bonus to our current 406k.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Tommy Wingels ($0.775m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.350m)
Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Adam Burish ($1.850m) /
Tomas Hertl ($1.350m) /
James Sheppard ($0.830m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Jason Demers ($1.500m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Scott Hannan ($1.000m)
Matt Irwin ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($0.625m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,131,667; BONUSES: $425,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $406,667

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08-26-2013, 08:41 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
the only thing i can think of is that capgeek isnt adding the bonus. it would be -831 if you added the bonus to our current 406k.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Tommy Wingels ($0.775m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.350m)
Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Adam Burish ($1.850m) /
Tomas Hertl ($1.350m) /
James Sheppard ($0.830m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Jason Demers ($1.500m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Scott Hannan ($1.000m)
Matt Irwin ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($0.625m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,131,667; BONUSES: $425,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $406,667
Thanks - as far as I can tell with that 22 man roster, they are technically $831,667 over the cap (Cap Payroll: $65,131,667). They can defer $425k which leaves their cap payroll at $64,706,667 which is still $406,667 over the $64,300,000 cap.

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08-26-2013, 08:45 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Thanks - as far as I can tell with that 22 man roster, they are technically $831,667 over the cap (Cap Payroll: $65,131,667). They can defer $425k which leaves their cap payroll at $64,706,667 which is still $406,667 over the $64,300,000 cap.
yea, i noticed that.

it should say -831k, unless its just assuming the bonus is deferred.

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08-26-2013, 08:46 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Thanks - as far as I can tell with that 22 man roster, they are technically $831,667 over the cap (Cap Payroll: $65,131,667). They can defer $425k which leaves their cap payroll at $64,706,667 which is still $406,667 over the $64,300,000 cap.
So if havlat a starts season and we don't make any other moves hertl could play 55 games or so

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08-26-2013, 08:48 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by hockfan1991 View Post
So if havlat a starts season and we don't make any other moves hertl could play 55 games or so
Not as far as I can tell, they'd have to move out another player to clear that $406+k.

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08-26-2013, 09:32 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Not as far as I can tell, they'd have to move out another player to clear that $406+k.
Hertl would start in the ahl. They could bring him up later is what I am trying to say and he could play more then half the season

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08-27-2013, 09:46 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by hockfan1991 View Post
Hertl would start in the ahl. They could bring him up later is what I am trying to say and he could play more then half the season
That also seems pretty doubtful to me.

If Havlat is healthy to start the season and the Sharks go with a 21 man roster they are a couple of early minor (short term / not LTIR) injuries away from having to ice a reduced roster. A LOT would have to go right for the team to bank enough capspace to do much of anything.

Even though LTIR does not "bank" cap space, a lot of this scenario requires Havlat to be healthy not just to start the season but to stay healthy, it seems to me that the org isn't counting on the former happening.

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08-27-2013, 09:50 AM
  #363
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Sharks need to drop Havlat as soon as he's healthy again, and then sign Brunner ASAP!

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08-27-2013, 01:18 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
That also seems pretty doubtful to me.

If Havlat is healthy to start the season and the Sharks go with a 21 man roster they are a couple of early minor (short term / not LTIR) injuries away from having to ice a reduced roster. A LOT would have to go right for the team to bank enough capspace to do much of anything.

Even though LTIR does not "bank" cap space, a lot of this scenario requires Havlat to be healthy not just to start the season but to stay healthy, it seems to me that the org isn't counting on the former happening.
Although, the new CBA does add a "Roster Emergency Exception" - a team is able to exceed the cap by up to $625K for a replacement player (min salary + $100K) if injuries and cap space force the team below the game day Playing Roster of 18 skaters + 2 goalies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 50.10(e)
(e) Roster Emergency Exception. In the event that (i) a Club has Payroll Room less
than the sum of the Minimum Paragraph 1 NHL Salary and $100,000 (i.e., that Club's Averaged
Club Salary is greater than the Upper Limit minus the Minimum Paragraph 1 NHL Salary minus
$100,000); (ii) a Player on such Club becomes unfit or unable to play (i.e., is injured, ill or
disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey Player) or is suspended; (iii) such Club is
unable to sign and/or Recall a Player with an Averaged Amount equal to the Minimum
Paragraph 1 NHL Salary plus $100,000 under the Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness
Exception; (iv) as a result of such Player being unfit or unable to play or suspended and the Club
having Payroll Room less than the sum of the Minimum Paragraph 1 NHL Salary and $100,000,
the Club has fewer than eighteen (18) skaters and two (2) goalies ("18 and 2") on its Playing
Roster (pursuant to Section 16.4(c)); and (v) the Club played its previous game with fewer than
18 and 2 (a "Roster Emergency"), then such Club may, beginning with the second game and
continuing with all subsequent games and without any charge to the Club's Averaged Club
Salary for the duration of such Roster Emergency, add to its Playing Roster the requisite number
of "emergency replacement" Player(s), provided, however, that (i) each such Player may not
have an Averaged Amount that is more than the then-applicable Minimum Paragraph 1 NHL
Salary plus $100,000 (e.g., $625,000 in 2012-13); and (ii) each such Player may only remain on
that Club's Active Roster during the period of the "Roster Emergency."
(i) The Paragraph 1 NHL Salary and Bonus of any Player added to the
Playing Roster pursuant to this Section shall be included in the Players'
Share.

(ii) No Club shall be limited in the number of times it may invoke the Roster
Emergency Exception in any League Year, provided that the Exception is
at all times invoked in full compliance with this Section 50.10(e).

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08-29-2013, 08:38 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Kevy D View Post
Sharks need to drop Havlat as soon as he's healthy again, and then sign Brunner ASAP!

Glass man is too iffy for my liking..I agree that when healthy he should be moved/traded.. His track record here concerns me..I am sure DW has looked into possible trades..Dont care what the Sharks record is when he plays because he can't be counted on to stay healthy for very long.. Move him by Christmas time and be done with it..And it would free up a boatload of $$$$...Make it so

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08-29-2013, 10:04 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Glass man is too iffy for my liking..I agree that when healthy he should be moved/traded.. His track record here concerns me..I am sure DW has looked into possible trades..Dont care what the Sharks record is when he plays because he can't be counted on to stay healthy for very long.. Move him by Christmas time and be done with it..And it would free up a boatload of $$$$...Make it so
Not gonna happen w/o taking a similar type of contract back. No one out there is just going to tack on 5 mil mid-season for the Sharks without either the Sharks adding a significant asset or the Sharks taking a risky contract in return. If moving him is absolutely necessary, they're better off hoping that they can use the amnesty on him next off-season.

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08-29-2013, 10:17 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Not gonna happen w/o taking a similar type of contract back. No one out there is just going to tack on 5 mil mid-season for the Sharks without either the Sharks adding a significant asset or the Sharks taking a risky contract in return. If moving him is absolutely necessary, they're better off hoping that they can use the amnesty on him next off-season.
Or trade him for a struggling player (gaborik type trade), and just hope the new player can turn his game around on the sharks.

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08-29-2013, 10:38 AM
  #368
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Or trade him for a struggling player (gaborik type trade), and just hope the new player can turn his game around on the sharks.
I covered that with the risky contract part of my post.

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08-29-2013, 11:24 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Thanks - as far as I can tell with that 22 man roster, they are technically $831,667 over the cap (Cap Payroll: $65,131,667). They can defer $425k which leaves their cap payroll at $64,706,667 which is still $406,667 over the $64,300,000 cap.
My Bad, sorry to have given a few people momentary doubts on their sanity. (Of course, we all are posting here so maybe that is a good thing?)

Looks like a healthy Havlat will have us demoting someone to the minors. I vote for Hannon/Burish. (Losing either of them on waivers is no real loss, and Burish would actually be a significant cap health gain)

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08-29-2013, 11:59 AM
  #370
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My Bad, sorry to have given a few people momentary doubts on their sanity. (Of course, we all are posting here so maybe that is a good thing?)

Looks like a healthy Havlat will have us demoting someone to the minors. I vote for Hannon/Burish. (Losing either of them on waivers is no real loss, and Burish would actually be a significant cap health gain)
This won't happen. When has DW ever done something like this to a veteran player?

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08-29-2013, 01:01 PM
  #371
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This won't happen. When has DW ever done something like this to a veteran player?
Kyle Edgar McLaren

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08-29-2013, 01:08 PM
  #372
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Kyle Edgar McLaren
Mclaren could also barely skate any more and was already on hos final year of his contract.

Hannan is going no where that is a given, he was signed this offseason and there is 0 chance of wilson sending him to the minors.

Burish i have been over this to many times to count already, but wilson will not waste 900k of cap space to send burish down to the minors. I can see him being traded but that is it.

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08-29-2013, 02:22 PM
  #373
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Mclaren could also barely skate any more and was already on hos final year of his contract.

Hannan is going no where that is a given, he was signed this offseason and there is 0 chance of wilson sending him to the minors.

Burish i have been over this to many times to count already, but wilson will not waste 900k of cap space to send burish down to the minors. I can see him being traded but that is it.
I agree it is unlikely DW will demote either Hannon or Burish. But if Hertl plays himself on to the roster, Hannon or Burish on waivers is, IMO, the best options. Everyone else would need to clear waivers and losing any of them does more harm to this years team than losing Hannon or Burish. Almost ensures DW will not move them.

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08-29-2013, 06:59 PM
  #374
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I agree it is unlikely DW will demote either Hannon or Burish. But if Hertl plays himself on to the roster, Hannon or Burish on waivers is, IMO, the best options. Everyone else would need to clear waivers and losing any of them does more harm to this years team than losing Hannon or Burish. Almost ensures DW will not move them.
Hannan

Its spelled Hannan

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09-10-2013, 09:28 PM
  #375
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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...-season-on-ir/

This isn't news to anyone but I didn't know that they gave him a temporary locker stall in their practice facility between games 6 and 7 and that he was sitting by himself in the opposite side of the arena while the other scratches were sitting on the opposite side. Does anyone know if there was actually any tension between him and the other players or Todd or DW? I like Havlat but its just unfortunate that his career is turning into this.

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