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Best playoff player to never win the cup?

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08-26-2013, 03:08 PM
  #1
Passchendaele
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Best playoff player to never win the cup?

Who would that be?

The easy answer, if we were including regular season play, would be Marcel Dionne, but he was average to bad in the playoffs.

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08-26-2013, 03:13 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I would take Brad Park even if we were combining regular season and playoffs.

Just playoffs? Probably Brad Park again. Other candidates off the top of my head could be Norm Ullman, Brian Propp, and Alexander Ovechkin (circa 2008-2010).

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08-26-2013, 03:13 PM
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DaveG
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Peter Stastny maybe?

forgot about Park, he'd be WAY up there on my list as well

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08-26-2013, 03:21 PM
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Psycho Papa Joe
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Peter Stastny maybe?

forgot about Park, he'd be WAY up there on my list as well
Agreed. Stastny for forwards. Park for D-men. Goalie is a tough one.

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08-26-2013, 03:27 PM
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jack mullet
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i dont think Dionne was bad, he was almost a point per game guy in the playoffs. problem is he didnt play many playoff games and was on some really bad teams. Park played alot of playoff hockey but never won. i would say those 2 are tops in my mind.

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08-26-2013, 03:40 PM
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Crosbylsmalkin
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Agreed. Stastny for forwards. Park for D-men. Goalie is a tough one.
as for goalie i would say Curtis Joseph maybe. In Toronto i remember he was great in playoffs. No one else comes to mind as good goalie as him in playoffs without a cup.

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08-26-2013, 03:44 PM
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thom
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Just ask Scotty Bowman.His choices Brad Park and Gilbert Perrault.Perrault is ahead of Dionne.Dionne was a selfish player who would be at center ice looking for a breakaway despite loosing 7 to 2 in a game.

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08-26-2013, 03:49 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Just ask Scotty Bowman.His choices Brad Park and Gilbert Perrault.Perrault is ahead of Dionne.Dionne was a selfish player who would be at center ice looking for a breakaway despite loosing 7 to 2 in a game.
In the playoffs Perreault is definitely ahead of Dionne.

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08-26-2013, 04:10 PM
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Chalupa Batman
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For goaltenders, here's the list of goaltenders never to win the cup, ordered by postseason goals above replacement:

Curtis Joseph (83.7, eighth all time)
John Vanbiesbrouck (58.8)
Kirk McLean (49.5)
Olaf Kolzig (42.2)
John Davidson (39.1)
Ron Hextall (39.0)
Kelly Hrudey (34.5)
Henrik Lundqvist (34.5)
Dwayne Roloson (33.8)
Mike Palmateer (33.6)

(Only counting 1953 playoffs and more recent)

More recent goaltenders obviously have an advantage in this metric, since they have more games to play. Having said that, they also have to beat out more teams (and goaltenders) to get off of the list entirely (by winning a Cup).

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08-26-2013, 04:15 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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for forwards, i think norm ullman is pretty easily above both perreault and dionne. went to three finals as a main guy on his team (along with howe and delvecchio), and led the playoffs in scoring twice. a secondary performer on a fourth cup finalist in his rookie year. he ran into a dynasty each time.

his per game average suffers because he played so many tears post-prime (33 and later), and because his prime was in a lower scoring era than the 70s and 80s guys already mentioned. from his rookie year (1956) up to the last O6 year (1966), he has 74 points in 80 games, behind only beliveau, howe, and geoffrion in that span (9th in PPG among players with 5 or more playoff GP), and he is 9th all-time in playoff points (27th in GP, 7th in PPG) from the founding of the NHL up to 1967 expansion.

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08-26-2013, 05:19 PM
  #11
Dark Shadows
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I would take Brad Park even if we were combining regular season and playoffs.

Just playoffs? Probably Brad Park again. Other candidates off the top of my head could be Norm Ullman, Brian Propp, and Alexander Ovechkin (circa 2008-2010).
Great choices. I came in here to make cases for Park and Ullman, but you beat me to it

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08-26-2013, 05:29 PM
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08-26-2013, 05:33 PM
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VanIslander
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The most prolific playoff scorer of the last decade has been Daniel Briere with 106 points in 102 games.


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08-26-2013, 07:24 PM
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Canadiens1958
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Others

Jean Ratelle and Rod Gilbert amongst forwards. Bill Gadsby amongst defensemen.

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08-26-2013, 08:00 PM
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Beau Knows
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Ovechkin, never been past the second round but he has scored more than a point per game in the post-season.

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08-26-2013, 08:33 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Ovechkin, never been past the second round but he has scored more than a point per game in the post-season.
If nothing else, he's almost certainly the best playoff performer of the 4 round era to never make it past the second round!

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08-26-2013, 08:42 PM
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Trevor Linden.

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08-26-2013, 09:01 PM
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08-26-2013, 09:02 PM
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I haven't seen enough of his play to make my own argument, but I would nominate Mark Howe.

I'm also throwing Keith Primeau out there. He had a couple playoff runs that were fantastic. During his time in Philly, when he was on he was great. He had a tendency to score big goals as well.

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08-26-2013, 09:10 PM
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Harry Howell, Bill Gadsby, Roger Crozier in net.

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08-26-2013, 09:10 PM
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Ed Wood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Jean Ratelle and Rod Gilbert amongst forwards. Bill Gadsby amongst defensemen.
Good picks. I was going to say Gadsby....... twenty seasons in a six team league. That must have hurt.

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08-27-2013, 01:51 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by jack mullet View Post
i dont think Dionne was bad, he was almost a point per game guy in the playoffs. problem is he didnt play many playoff games and was on some really bad teams. Park played alot of playoff hockey but never won. i would say those 2 are tops in my mind.
And for him, that IS bad. Especially when considering that besides scoring, Dionne didn't bring much to the table (i.e. defensive game, physicality, intimidation etc.). He definitely had a couple of good serieses, but his playoff resume is simply very disappointing.

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08-27-2013, 02:59 AM
  #23
Sticks and Pucks
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post

I'm also throwing Keith Primeau out there. He had a couple playoff runs that were fantastic. During his time in Philly, when he was on he was great. He had a tendency to score big goals as well.
I would have to disagree there. Primeau only had one good playoff run (2004) and his other playoff runs with Philly weren't all that spectacular. In fact, he was also known to disappear in the playoffs back in his Detroit days.

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08-27-2013, 03:25 AM
  #24
TheDevilMadeMe
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This will be highly biased by era, but here are the highest career scorers in the playoffs who never won the Cup

Adam Oates 156
Brian Propp 148
Brad Park 125
Jeremy Roenick 122
Dino Ciccarelli 118
Dale Hunter 118
Bernie Nicholls 114
Craig Janney 110
Danny Briere 109
Steve Thomas 107
Peter Stastny 105
Gilbert Perreault 103
Bernie Federko 101
Daniel Alfredsson 100
Rick Middleton 100
Dale Hawerchuk 99
Trevor Linden 99
Jean Ratelle 98
Pierre Turgeon 97
Joe Thornton 97
Patrick Marleau 96
Mike Gartner 93
Cam Neely 89
Shayne Corson 86
Cliff Ronning 86
Norm Ullman 83
Russ Courtnall 83

I couldn't even find another player who peaked before expansion with more than 56 points who didn't win the Cup (I stopped looking at 56).

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08-27-2013, 03:50 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This will be highly biased by era, but here are the highest career scorers in the playoffs who never won the Cup

Adam Oates 156
Brian Propp 148
Brad Park 125
Jeremy Roenick 122
Dino Ciccarelli 118
Dale Hunter 118
Bernie Nicholls 114
Craig Janney 110
Danny Briere 109
Steve Thomas 107
Peter Stastny 105
Gilbert Perreault 103
Bernie Federko 101
Daniel Alfredsson 100
Rick Middleton 100
Dale Hawerchuk 99
Trevor Linden 99
Jean Ratelle 98
Pierre Turgeon 97
Joe Thornton 97
Patrick Marleau 96
Mike Gartner 93
Cam Neely 89
Shayne Corson 86
Cliff Ronning 86
Norm Ullman 83
Russ Courtnall 83

I couldn't even find another player who peaked before expansion with more than 56 points who didn't win the Cup (I stopped looking at 56).
I found Briere numbers more than impressive, given all the circumstances. With all the respect to non-expansion league difficulty, it's not so easy to maintain PPG over 100 playoff games. Hell, it's not even easy to play in 100+ playoff games these times.

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