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Ryan Smyth: The most useless player on the team

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Old
08-26-2013, 11:18 AM
  #351
Trafalgar Law
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
I think who gets the C is totally unimportant. If they want to give it to Smitty for a season who cares, the players know who the real leaders are.
Except it's actually very important, and naming an awful player captain is a slap in the face of the team's real leaders and has a negative effect on the entire locker room (Ethan Moreau).

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08-26-2013, 11:28 AM
  #352
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IMO, I think Tambo was given a protocol from the top of the food chain to re-sign Smyth. Given Smyth's age and futility, most keen hockey people would not have given Smyth an extended contract for that salary amount especially when a roster spot can easily be filled with a younger and more productive player.

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08-26-2013, 11:29 AM
  #353
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Cool. Rag on the guy playing on the fourth line, out of position, with AHLers for linemates and d-men most/all of the time. Never mind the fact that he's given more to this team than any active member on the roster. Bump the thread because you're upset that someone dared mention that the longest-tenured player should receive the captaincy. You're doing great.

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08-26-2013, 11:35 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Except it's actually very important, and naming an awful player captain is a slap in the face of the team's real leaders and has a negative effect on the entire locker room (Ethan Moreau).
Moreau wasn't a slap in the face when he demanded it. People were happy someone showed so much emotion and stood up and demanded it. I personally wanted Stoll, but there wasn't exactly a whole lot of guys to choose on that club.

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08-26-2013, 11:37 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Except it's actually very important, and naming an awful player captain is a slap in the face of the team's real leaders and has a negative effect on the entire locker room (Ethan Moreau).
Sure because as soon as he left this team turned into a contender.

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08-26-2013, 11:53 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
He is a vet. Heart and Soul Edmonton guy. His play last year was not good but I would also say that people on these boards are greatly exaggerating how bad he did play last year.

He should be able to play out his final year here in a very limited role. Having this guy in our dressing room should be an asset.

The only problem I see is if he continues to pretend he can still play this game at a high level.

He should be splitting time with Brown for the 13th forward and mainly be a locker room presence.

Have him play 41 gameish with only 5-10 min of ice time and let him sail into the sunset an Oiler.

It is a very classy thing to do. The organization needs some positive reinforcement with player relations.

And having Smyth play that kind of role will not hurt this teams chances to make the playoffs even slightly unless he has taken even a bigger step down from last year.
What a load of crap. This idea is beyond stupid and one of the main reasons we've been the joke of hockey for 3 years. You don't see team's like Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago, and Boston going for "positive reinforcement with player relations". That's because they're focused on winning games and trying to ice the most competitive roster possible, not giving legacy players like Glen Murray or Rob Blake warm fuzzies. The Oilers have been plagued by nepotism and lack of accountability, and judging by certain offseason moves *cough*Will Acton*cough*, this still runs rampant throughout the organization. You don't keep players around just because they've paid their dues and you want to repay them. They've already been given their paycheck, and instead you should say "see ya".

If the Ottawa Senators can toss Daniel Alfredsson to the curb, a player who is and was a vastly superior player to Smyth and did far more for their city and organization than Smyth could ever dream of, we can put down Old Smytty. Hockey is a business, and as such should be treated as one. We need to get rid of negative assets and exchange assets that are no longer useful to us for assets that are, not hold onto them until their value deteriorates to nothing. The Calgary Flames, the current joke of the league, were forced into their current predicament because of their attachment to legacy players and delusions of past success translating to current success. We should've traded players like Hemsky years ago when we could've actually gotten a good return, instead Tambo decided to hold onto him for sentimental reasons and now we can't even give him away. It works for teams like Detroit because the guys they're holding onto are effective hockey players giving them hometown discounts. The Oilers on the other hand, give Ales Hemsky 5 million and Ryan Smyth 2.5 million. Until the guys in the front office grow a pair and learn to identify and immediately cut ties with those who don't give us a higher chance of winning hockey games, we'll never be a contender.

If we want positive presences in the locker room, go after guys that bring those intangibles while maintaining a high level of play like Andrew Ference. MacT looks like he has a much clearer vision of what needs to be done than Tambo ever did, and hopefully he'll continue along this path and make similar moves.

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Sure because as soon as he left this team turned into a contender.
Horcoff isn't exactly the greatest player on Earth either.

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08-26-2013, 12:23 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Except it's actually very important, and naming an awful player captain is a slap in the face of the team's real leaders and has a negative effect on the entire locker room (Ethan Moreau).
Really? Were you in the locker room back then? is that what players were saying - that they considered themselves a "real leader" and were not happy that Ethan was captain?

I think that's crap. The role of captain is overstated by fans and media. Those guys with leadership qualities will speak up regardless of whether they wear a C on their chest or not. The captain is the guy who will face the media and answer questions, and helps with the social aspect of the team - but there are 20 other guys who can also do things.

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08-26-2013, 12:44 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
What a load of crap. This idea is beyond stupid and one of the main reasons we've been the joke of hockey for 3 years. You don't see team's like Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago, and Boston going for "positive reinforcement with player relations". That's because they're focused on winning games and trying to ice the most competitive roster possible, not giving legacy players like Glen Murray or Rob Blake warm fuzzies. The Oilers have been plagued by nepotism and lack of accountability, and judging by certain offseason moves *cough*Will Acton*cough*, this still runs rampant throughout the organization. You don't keep players around just because they've paid their dues and you want to repay them. They've already been given their paycheck, and instead you should say "see ya".

If the Ottawa Senators can toss Daniel Alfredsson to the curb, a player who is and was a vastly superior player to Smyth and did far more for their city and organization than Smyth could ever dream of, we can put down Old Smytty. Hockey is a business, and as such should be treated as one. We need to get rid of negative assets and exchange assets that are no longer useful to us for assets that are, not hold onto them until their value deteriorates to nothing. The Calgary Flames, the current joke of the league, were forced into their current predicament because of their attachment to legacy players and delusions of past success translating to current success. We should've traded players like Hemsky years ago when we could've actually gotten a good return, instead Tambo decided to hold onto him for sentimental reasons and now we can't even give him away. It works for teams like Detroit because the guys they're holding onto are effective hockey players giving them hometown discounts. The Oilers on the other hand, give Ales Hemsky 5 million and Ryan Smyth 2.5 million. Until the guys in the front office grow a pair and learn to identify and immediately cut ties with those who don't give us a higher chance of winning hockey games, we'll never be a contender.

If we want positive presences in the locker room, go after guys that bring those intangibles while maintaining a high level of play like Andrew Ference. MacT looks like he has a much clearer vision of what needs to be done than Tambo ever did, and hopefully he'll continue along this path and make similar moves.


Horcoff isn't exactly the greatest player on Earth either.
There are many situations where teams pay for overaged players for locker room power more than on ice usefulness.

You can actually look at the Stanley cup champs the bruins who brought in a very under performing Recchi. If you think they brought Recchi in primarily for his wheels and skills your delusional.

Now Reechi was still playing better than Smyth is now but Smyth still has one year left on his contract.

I don't know how that works. Do they have to bury him in the minors to force him to retire?

Anyways.

Smyth didn't play omfg horrible last year. He had good moments and bad moments and overall has clearly lost a step. I would still say Smyth performed wonderfully in comparison to Whitney. Not far off of Horcoff and still people are saying we made a mistake letting him go. And compared to even a young guy like Harti, Smyths play was, unbelieveable but true, better.

With our bottom 6 the way it is, really there is no significant loss by playing him under the right circumstances.

If we had a clear cut better player for our 13th forward I would think you would have more of a compelling argument.


Last edited by Aerchon: 08-26-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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08-26-2013, 02:00 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
What a load of crap. This idea is beyond stupid and one of the main reasons we've been the joke of hockey for 3 years. You don't see team's like Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago, and Boston going for "positive reinforcement with player relations". That's because they're focused on winning games and trying to ice the most competitive roster possible, not giving legacy players like Glen Murray or Rob Blake warm fuzzies. The Oilers have been plagued by nepotism and lack of accountability, and judging by certain offseason moves *cough*Will Acton*cough*, this still runs rampant throughout the organization. You don't keep players around just because they've paid their dues and you want to repay them. They've already been given their paycheck, and instead you should say "see ya".

If the Ottawa Senators can toss Daniel Alfredsson to the curb, a player who is and was a vastly superior player to Smyth and did far more for their city and organization than Smyth could ever dream of, we can put down Old Smytty. Hockey is a business, and as such should be treated as one. We need to get rid of negative assets and exchange assets that are no longer useful to us for assets that are, not hold onto them until their value deteriorates to nothing. The Calgary Flames, the current joke of the league, were forced into their current predicament because of their attachment to legacy players and delusions of past success translating to current success. We should've traded players like Hemsky years ago when we could've actually gotten a good return, instead Tambo decided to hold onto him for sentimental reasons and now we can't even give him away. It works for teams like Detroit because the guys they're holding onto are effective hockey players giving them hometown discounts. The Oilers on the other hand, give Ales Hemsky 5 million and Ryan Smyth 2.5 million. Until the guys in the front office grow a pair and learn to identify and immediately cut ties with those who don't give us a higher chance of winning hockey games, we'll never be a contender.

If we want positive presences in the locker room, go after guys that bring those intangibles while maintaining a high level of play like Andrew Ference. MacT looks like he has a much clearer vision of what needs to be done than Tambo ever did, and hopefully he'll continue along this path and make similar moves.


Horcoff isn't exactly the greatest player on Earth either.
In any business it is normal to recruit people you are familiar with. This means often friends of acquaintances. The trick it to get the ones that are of high quality.

usually people hire people they know rather than not know. It is not necessarily nepotism and favoritism.

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08-26-2013, 05:32 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
Cool. Rag on the guy playing on the fourth line, out of position, with AHLers for linemates and d-men most/all of the time. Never mind the fact that he's given more to this team than any active member on the roster. Bump the thread because you're upset that someone dared mention that the longest-tenured player should receive the captaincy. You're doing great.
Bwahaha...

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08-26-2013, 07:19 PM
  #361
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Can anyone tell me what this guy does or why he's still here?

He's slow, he can't score, he's not physical, and if the last few games are any indication he has even less leadership than Horcoff.

Like many Oiler fans I was happy he decided to come back and take Colin Fraser away from us at the same time...

Now it appears we made a huge mistake by letting him go and getting Smyth back. There doesn't seem to be a more useless player on the Oilers or even in the NHL.

Just waive him. He serves no purpose and is dragging the team down to horrible depths.
How dare you rag on our Ryan Smyth and any of our other Oilers for that matter! The site minions on here will be after you for sure. And please, leave our beloved Sammy Snowpants alone too!

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08-26-2013, 07:24 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
Cool. Rag on the guy playing on the fourth line, out of position, with AHLers for linemates and d-men most/all of the time. Never mind the fact that he's given more to this team than any active member on the roster. Bump the thread because you're upset that someone dared mention that the longest-tenured player should receive the captaincy. You're doing great.
I'll give you that he's out of position, but other than that, he's there for a reason.

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08-26-2013, 11:10 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
In any business it is normal to recruit people you are familiar with. This means often friends of acquaintances. The trick it to get the ones that are of high quality.

usually people hire people they know rather than not know. It is not necessarily nepotism and favoritism.
That's the thing, the types of players the Oilers have is clearly nepotism/cronyism/favouritism. In terms of skill and on ice performance, Smyth belongs nowhere near a starting NHL lineup. According to MacT, AHL 4th line center Will Acton will get a long look for an NHL roster spot because daddy got hired as an assistant coach. At least we finally got rid of Horcoff.

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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
There are many situations where teams pay for overaged players for locker room power more than on ice usefulness.

You can actually look at the Stanley cup champs the bruins who brought in a very under performing Recchi. If you think they brought Recchi in primarily for his wheels and skills your delusional.

Now Reechi was still playing better than Smyth is now but Smyth still has one year left on his contract.

I don't know how that works. Do they have to bury him in the minors to force him to retire?

Anyways.

Smyth didn't play omfg horrible last year. He had good moments and bad moments and overall has clearly lost a step. I would still say Smyth performed wonderfully in comparison to Whitney. Not far off of Horcoff and still people are saying we made a mistake letting him go. And compared to even a young guy like Harti, Smyths play was, unbelieveable but true, better.

With our bottom 6 the way it is, really there is no significant loss by playing him under the right circumstances.

If we had a clear cut better player for our 13th forward I would think you would have more of a compelling argument.
No there isn't, not a single successful team in the NHL does that. They bring in players that make a positive contribution both on and off the ice. Even if they're brought in moreso for "intangibles", they're still consciously used to fill a hole. Ryan Smyth does not fill any needs on this team. In fact, he was so useless that the team played him at center in hopes that the alchemists could transmute junk to gold and Smyth would somehow carve out a niche. Which of course, he failed to do.

Mark Recchi had a 1 million per season whopper of a contract in his cup winning year while scoring nearly 50 points. If that's underperforming, then players like Tavares and Hall should have their millstone contracts bought out immediately. The Recchi/Smyth comparison makes no sense whatsoever because Recchi was making and impact both on and off the ice.

And I'm not sure what games you watched, but Smyth was easily the worst player on the ice on most nights. He'd kill the transition game due to his inability to keep up with the play and couldn't get the puck into the offensive zone if his life depended on it. If by some miracle the Oilers managed to complete a zone entry with Smyth on the ice, he'd kill any potential offence by either going for a 50mph clapper with a wide open teammate who had an open shooting lane, or going for a weak wraparound with two defenders around the net and the goalie positioned perfectly. At least a guy like Hartikainen knew when to pass or dump in the puck and could drive the net and create havoc in front at the right time. His giveaways per minute was frighteningly high, and if it were a stat, he'd easily be the team's leader in "selfish unnecessary minor penalties". Hell, the only player who had more minor penalties was Smid, and a lot of those were hooking/holding calls that prevented an odd man rush/breakaway. Smyth also brings no physicality whatsoever, considering how Boyd Gordon and Ales Hemsky are currently featured in our bottom 6, the rest of the players pretty much have to be physical. Joensuu, Eager, and Brown are all better fits at this point.


Last edited by Trafalgar Law: 08-26-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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08-26-2013, 11:23 PM
  #364
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There is many teams in pro sports that hire their own!

cry me a river!

Smyth is what he is, an ageing vet warrior. People who call him horrible should step on the ice and get introduced to the reality of he is way better at it then you ever well.

So cry me a river!

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08-26-2013, 11:50 PM
  #365
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If he is here because he can contribute (on the ice or dressing room), fine, but if he's here because of past play or sentimental reasons, we will always be losers.

Personally, I think he should have been offered a position within the organization (ya I know, we got Smith and Bucky and others already).

I want the playoffs this year, whatever way we can get there should be the goal, not keeping Smyth happy. He was paid well for a lot of years and should be respected as a "former player". We don't need fans trashing him because he can't play no more and he's taking up a spot.

We are losing young guys to Europe....

It's a terrible injustice to guys like Hall and the fans not to ice the best team now.

By the way, Hemsky can still play and contribute.

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08-27-2013, 12:03 AM
  #366
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If he is here because he can contribute (on the ice or dressing room), fine, but if he's here because of past play or sentimental reasons, we will always be losers.

Personally, I think he should have been offered a position within the organization (ya I know, we got Smith and Bucky and others already).

I want the playoffs this year, whatever way we can get there should be the goal, not keeping Smyth happy. He was paid well for a lot of years and should be respected as a "former player". We don't need fans trashing him because he can't play no more and he's taking up a spot.

We are losing young guys to Europe....

It's a terrible injustice to guys like Hall and the fans not to ice the best team now.

By the way, Hemsky can still play and contribute.
I think this year, for the first time in 4 years the best uninjured 23 players in the org, are going to be in the lineup on a nightly basis. This goes for Smyth as much as anybody else on the team. We saw it last year but lacked decent replacements. They had to take out underperforming players and replace them with underperforming players to make a point lol. The competition level for spots is as high as i have ever seen it... and thats with out signing a name from the past UFA that nobody else wants but some say we need to sign.

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08-27-2013, 12:15 AM
  #367
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I have no idea how I ended up on the defending Smyth side of this argument.

I have always thought Smyth as over hyped in Edmonton.

Hell the guy has always been a poor skater, shooter, and passer... Not exactly the kind of guy that should be on your top line. I know he has had great success with his grit and heart but he really was played in a position far above his skill set in Edmonton.

On Smyth at the moment tho.

He is a vet. Heart and Soul Edmonton guy. His play last year was not good but I would also say that people on these boards are greatly exaggerating how bad he did play last year.

He should be able to play out his final year here in a very limited role. Having this guy in our dressing room should be an asset.

The only problem I see is if he continues to pretend he can still play this game at a high level.

He should be splitting time with Brown for the 13th forward and mainly be a locker room presence.

Have him play 41 gameish with only 5-10 min of ice time and let him sail into the sunset an Oiler.

It is a very classy thing to do. The organization needs some positive reinforcement with player relations.

And having Smyth play that kind of role will not hurt this teams chances to make the playoffs even slightly unless he has taken even a bigger step down from last year.
The idea that Ryan Smyth had success in spite of talent is a gross exaggeration IMO. He certainly never had a great shot but he was one of the premier power forwards in the NHL for close to 10 years. He made 3 best on best Team Canada's and was in conversation for making a 4th. He was a solid passer and an excellent offensive player close to the net, he was also a beast on loose pucks. This was always complimented with a quality defensive game. Smyth was never overrated for his skill, perhaps overloved, and i'd even argue his skill was underrated. People loved to believe it was all heart, but really the skill was a big part of the package too. He could win an unusual amount of battles down low and was very good at finding loose pucks to pass or tap in the net.

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08-27-2013, 10:40 AM
  #368
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The idea that Ryan Smyth had success in spite of talent is a gross exaggeration IMO. He certainly never had a great shot but he was one of the premier power forwards in the NHL for close to 10 years. He made 3 best on best Team Canada's and was in conversation for making a 4th. He was a solid passer and an excellent offensive player close to the net, he was also a beast on loose pucks. This was always complimented with a quality defensive game. Smyth was never overrated for his skill, perhaps overloved, and i'd even argue his skill was underrated. People loved to believe it was all heart, but really the skill was a big part of the package too. He could win an unusual amount of battles down low and was very good at finding loose pucks to pass or tap in the net.
You definition of a power forward and mine are completely different. I have never heard that term used for Ryan Smyth. Gritty, hell yes, power forward, roflmao. That's terrible. Shanahan, Lucic, and Bertuzzi are examples of premier power forwards.

Ryan Smyth at his peak:

Amazing hand eye/Tipping.
Amazing at getting to lose pucks and rebounds.
Amazing heart, soul, and grit.
A below average NHL shot.
Below average NHL skating.
Below average passing. He was a puck carrier or in front of the net. Don't know where you got playmaker from Ryan Smyth. Play makers generally don't score as much or more than they get assists.

Average NHL nickname: The garbage man. Cause every goal this guy scored was pure trash. Well earned but you could count his top corners on one hand... If he even has any that is.

Ryan Smyth played great for the Oilers. Is a great player. But please, don't confuse his success with "traditional" talent.

I seen Smyth score with his @$$... Literally. Not a lot of talent on that. Right place right time and a ton of grit and heart to get to those places.

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08-27-2013, 12:47 PM
  #369
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You definition of a power forward and mine are completely different. I have never heard that term used for Ryan Smyth. Gritty, hell yes, power forward, roflmao. That's terrible. Shanahan, Lucic, and Bertuzzi are examples of premier power forwards.

Ryan Smyth at his peak:

Amazing hand eye/Tipping.
Amazing at getting to lose pucks and rebounds.
Amazing heart, soul, and grit.
A below average NHL shot.
Below average NHL skating.
Below average passing. He was a puck carrier or in front of the net. Don't know where you got playmaker from Ryan Smyth. Play makers generally don't score as much or more than they get assists.

Average NHL nickname: The garbage man. Cause every goal this guy scored was pure trash. Well earned but you could count his top corners on one hand... If he even has any that is.

Ryan Smyth played great for the Oilers. Is a great player. But please, don't confuse his success with "traditional" talent.

I seen Smyth score with his @$$... Literally. Not a lot of talent on that. Right place right time and a ton of grit and heart to get to those places.
Good post. Pretty much nailed it.

Smytty is a complementary player on a scoring line. The reason he has 5 goals in his last 82 games as an Oiler is that he isn't good enough any longer to play in our top 6, so he no longer plays with good offensive players who get the puck to the net.

No shots and offensive zone possessions generated by linemates = no secondary scoring chances for a player with Smyth's toolset = Steve MacIntyre levels of goal production.

He simply isn't a bottom 6 player. Too slow to backcheck, and just gets run out of the rink trying to keep up with players like Cammalleri. He had one memorable shift against Jamie Benn last year where he just got owned repeatedly.

The idea that Smyth is a good defensive player is simply nonsense. He cost the team goals last year, and will again this year. Any good offensive player with size will simply run Smyth over and push him off. Any good offensive player with speed will turn him inside out.

He isn't going to displace Hall or Perron on this roster obviously, so playing with Hemsky against easy competition is the best place for him. They need a center for that line, and should have signed somebody with better offensive tools than Gordon to play on that line.

Lander is likely the best option to center that line, but the truth of the matter is that Smyth just doesn't fit here anymore, and should have been bought out.

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10-02-2013, 12:07 AM
  #370
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Like I said, most useless player on the team.

You had your glory days Smitty, either beg to be dropped to the 4th line or hang them up.

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10-02-2013, 12:08 AM
  #371
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It honestly hurts to watch him play hockey. He looks like he's an older beer league player at this point.

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10-02-2013, 12:10 AM
  #372
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I'm just going to keep posting this obnoxiously until he either shows some semblence of an NHL player, or we finally get him the **** away from this team.

Ryan Smyth belongs on waivers. Not the first line.

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10-02-2013, 12:13 AM
  #373
Qrispy
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Where are the Smyth fanboys now? Terrible terrible performance in only the first game. Boy, we are in for one hell of a season if this carries on.

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10-02-2013, 12:14 AM
  #374
ZenOil
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You can't really blame Smyth. The people to blame are the idiots who make decisions based on politics and not common sense. That idiot is you "Mr" Eakins. Face reality.

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10-02-2013, 12:16 AM
  #375
GreatKeith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenOil View Post
You can't really blame Smyth. The people to blame are the idiots who make decisions based on politics and not common sense. That idiot is you "Mr" Eakins. Face reality.
Oh I can and will. All Smyth has to do is retire and that's that for the entire year. He's not Teemu Selanne.


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