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The Off-Season Thread Part VI - Are we there yet? (Grabovski to Caps, 1 yr)

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Old
08-27-2013, 05:57 PM
  #526
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Not to beat a dead horse, but you can also question just how well it worked.

We got a lot pts all year, we PK well and gave up a little. We had depth so that we could keep going all the way into the wall and we won a ton of pts in diffrent ways by being able to keep it up the last 10 minutes.

We looked really horrible the first 15-20 games. Hank really saved us, but there where a -- ton -- of games where we were outshot 20-40 but still won etc.

We were not good at all the last month of the season or so.

Ottawa was not a strong team, and they took us to 7. We deserved to win, yes, but we couldn't put them away. The Caps were just as good as us, and that series could have gone other way. NJD just had our numbers. They were better than us by quite some margin.
Ottawa, Washington and New Jersey all got good defensive efforts from their playoff teams--great goaltending. Basically that negated the style of game the Rangers specialized in throughout the regular season. Games came down in most cases to whoever blinked first. Still the Rangers were simply playing to their strengths in 11-12. As far as 12-13 the Rangers had more top end talent but they paid for it with less depth and struggled throughout the season. Trading Gaborik addressed that issue of depth at the expense of top end talent. Interesting in any case that the Pens--the most talented team in the league have been embarrassed two seasons in a row because of their inability to defend or play with discipline in the playoffs. Top end talent is great but not enough on its own.

Looking at the last 2 seasons--the series the Rangers were knocked out in--NJ's 4th line of Gionta, Bernier, Carter and Boston's 4th line of Campbell, Paille, Thornton did whole lots of damage which again speaks to how deep the Rangers weren't in either season. Literally every time those lines were on the ice we were being pinned in our own end and caught running around. Both those lines were very physical--another problem for us sometimes.

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08-27-2013, 06:07 PM
  #527
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Fair point, I am not sure where to stand on this issue. The talk about how it hurt us offensively to give up the points when playing defense. Is that really the case? Maybe we were too extreme, but in general that is the best modern way to play defense today. I don't think you loose much offense. Maybe we over did it, maybe we did not.

We were extremely stone ages in our transition game under Torts. No creative play whatsoever before we got below the hash marks (unles we like picked a puck of a D and got a odd man rush from the get go). It was among the worst seen in the game. As Mattias Norstrom put it commenting a game for Swedish TV: "I've never seen a team as afraid of passing the puck as NYR". He played his entire career during the trapping era.

But was our defense really a problem? Nah. We have all the room in the world to improve our offense with the puck. Maybe marginal improvements can be made by not collapsing too low. But that is marginal.
Kudos to Matty Norstrom--he would have been a great Ranger. One of the dumbest trades in my memory sending him to Los Angeles.

Looking at the Rangers of the last few years though we've had numerous forwards with a very predictable shoot first mentality. Drury was certainly that way. Callahan also. I like Boyle a lot but he can't make a play to save his life. Gaborik and Nash while capable of making plays are both mostly in that same kind of mold and I expect Kreider is going to be as well.

Adding Brassard and Zuccarello into the mix--both very creative helped towards the end of last year and Stepan is very good. If Richards were to decide to show up in shape this year maybe we'll have another.

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08-27-2013, 06:23 PM
  #528
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http://ctvmedia.ca/Network/TSN/Press...for-Sochi-2014

Marc Staal and Rick Nash are on TSN's projected Team Canada Olympic Roster.

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Old
08-27-2013, 06:42 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
http://ctvmedia.ca/Network/TSN/Press...for-Sochi-2014

Marc Staal and Rick Nash are on TSN's projected Team Canada Olympic Roster.
Hard to call it a weakness, but in net is the only place any other country will have an advantage.

Such a deep roster.

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08-27-2013, 07:17 PM
  #530
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08-27-2013, 07:29 PM
  #531
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the one thing that really pissed me off about how Torts handled Kreider was during that stretch of games from March I believe, Kreider was on fire in CT scoring a goal every other game. Torts called him up, and threw him in the bottom 6. I didn't understand that. Shoulda just left him down there to finish the season.
No. Proof he deserved to be HERE.

But he should not have gotten minimal minutes on bottom 6.
Given our investment in him, and how blue a chip he is, we should have put him in top 6, and let him make mistakes and learn while doing so.

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08-27-2013, 07:30 PM
  #532
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That jerseys looks like kids pajamas...

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08-27-2013, 07:31 PM
  #533
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That jerseys looks like kids pajamas...
I bet their comfy though.

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08-27-2013, 07:34 PM
  #534
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I bet their comfy though.
It's like he's about to get tucked into bed under a glow-in-the-dark solar system, not battle for Olympic gold. Sigh...

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08-27-2013, 07:37 PM
  #535
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No, but seriously, what the hell is he wearing?

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08-27-2013, 07:38 PM
  #536
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If the stars glowed in the dark id actually consider buying one

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08-27-2013, 07:39 PM
  #537
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If the stars glowed in the dark id actually consider buying one
Those jerseys would only look good in the dark.

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08-27-2013, 07:47 PM
  #538
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Jersey are real bad

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08-27-2013, 08:58 PM
  #539
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Real ugly looking jerseys.

The stars look bad and the fake lacing is atrocious. The logo is alright. They really dropped the ball with these though.

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08-27-2013, 10:36 PM
  #540
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Those Jerseys are among the worst things I've ever seen

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08-27-2013, 11:20 PM
  #541
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Oy, you couldve saved yourself a lot of time and typing if you hadn't been so ignorant yourself and ran with this notion that I think the entire team is a bunch of pansies. I've said from the beginning I think it was just a handful of players that whined about mistreatment. If you ask me for a list of players who I think would perpetuate this cowardly act, Richards and Kreider would be near the top but Im just speculating.

Nobody knows if they attacked these issues head on with the coach during the season - the type of heroic stuff you mentioned in your non-sequitur story about your boss. The bottom line, for me, is it sure looks like we have a team here who refused to enact a system that worked for them in '11-12 because, well, I dont know what their reasons are which is part of the problem, but it sure looks like it stems from them thinking they're better than they actually are -- thinking that loosening the reigns will let them have fun and be a more successful hockey team. Check back with me in April, because the team will have a chance to back it up. But, right now, the reasoning looks like a crock of ****.
That's the part that gets me. It really does feel from various interviews that no one on the roster went to anyone on the coaching staff and expressed concerns about the system, or things not working out, or whatever. There was one quote from Tortorella over the past two weeks (from some Vancouver paper) talking about how not one player brought up any issues to him during the exit interviews.

Yes, Torts yells and does his best to be a grouch. But when all is said and done, he's a little old chihuahua who's all bark and no bite. How a bunch of young professional athletes can be so intimidated by a little old man like that is beyond me.

The best thing about this team was their guts and character on the ice. Why did it disappear in the dressing room?

Whether it's Tortorella or any other coach, I want to see players who have the balls to talk to their coach, to communicate, to do what's best for the team. Even if they would've fired the coaching staff no matter what, I want the players to stand up and express themselves.

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08-28-2013, 04:20 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
That's the part that gets me. It really does feel from various interviews that no one on the roster went to anyone on the coaching staff and expressed concerns about the system, or things not working out, or whatever. There was one quote from Tortorella over the past two weeks (from some Vancouver paper) talking about how not one player brought up any issues to him during the exit interviews.

Yes, Torts yells and does his best to be a grouch. But when all is said and done, he's a little old chihuahua who's all bark and no bite. How a bunch of young professional athletes can be so intimidated by a little old man like that is beyond me.

The best thing about this team was their guts and character on the ice. Why did it disappear in the dressing room?

Whether it's Tortorella or any other coach, I want to see players who have the balls to talk to their coach, to communicate, to do what's best for the team. Even if they would've fired the coaching staff no matter what, I want the players to stand up and express themselves.
Easier said than done, hell it took Messier until the ECF to tell Keenan to shove it and just let them play, and Keenan laid off. Would Torts have laid off? Maybe he would have called the player a punk in the next presser? Who knows, you don't know they didn't do that, so either way it's just speculation. He said he didn't hear anything during the exit interviews, maybe they did express themselves throughout the season? Maybe not, who knows.

He's obviously not as harmless as you assume from watching in the comforts of your own home, the guys who are best able to form an opinion on him and his antics, are the ones who spend the majority of the year around him on a daily basis. Don't you think? Also I doubt it has so much to do with being intimidated as it does with being disrespected, it's one thing to yell at a guy, most adults can handle an ass reaming if it's warranted. It's the never ending criticism that rubs thin on guys, the making a big deal out of the little things, calling guys out over small matters that can easily be handled in a two minute man to man talk face to face.


Last edited by Barbara Underhill: 08-28-2013 at 04:27 AM.
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Old
08-28-2013, 06:19 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
That's the part that gets me. It really does feel from various interviews that no one on the roster went to anyone on the coaching staff and expressed concerns about the system, or things not working out, or whatever. There was one quote from Tortorella over the past two weeks (from some Vancouver paper) talking about how not one player brought up any issues to him during the exit interviews.

Yes, Torts yells and does his best to be a grouch. But when all is said and done, he's a little old chihuahua who's all bark and no bite. How a bunch of young professional athletes can be so intimidated by a little old man like that is beyond me.

The best thing about this team was their guts and character on the ice. Why did it disappear in the dressing room?

Whether it's Tortorella or any other coach, I want to see players who have the balls to talk to their coach, to communicate, to do what's best for the team. Even if they would've fired the coaching staff no matter what, I want the players to stand up and express themselves.

I dont care who you are or how tough you think you are....hearing constant yelling n screaming gets tiresome n old after awhile... Nobody wants to hear from the drill sergeant n feel like their in basic training for 4+ years....after awhile your like..... Oh Is he screaming again....

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08-28-2013, 06:45 AM
  #544
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In regards to communication, the one statement from Torts that I found to be the proverbial nail in the coffin for me is when he said something like

"There were no problems with the type of game we played. I wasn't aware of anything that [Glen Sather & the players] weren't on the same page with. If there were, no one told me about it."

Again, I'm paraphrasing something from a few months ago. The fact that he wasn't able to adjust and wasn't aware of the need to adjust despite the obvious signs left and right from players and MGMT and from personal experience is one problem. The "If there were, no one told me about it" part is basically why I was 100% behind the coaching change. When it gets to the point where Glen lays off because of the futility of his attempts to change the way Torts coaches and where the players are afraid and unwilling to confront or even communicate with their coach on things that were obviously so vitally important to the success of the team, the coach needs to go.

It's one thing for players to not confront the coach, it's another when the coach is oblivious to things around him and isn't even fully aware of the fact that the things that went wrong that lead to his firing were not communicated to him because of how difficult he is.

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08-28-2013, 07:12 AM
  #545
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Easier said than done, hell it took Messier until the ECF to tell Keenan to shove it and just let them play, and Keenan laid off. Would Torts have laid off? Maybe he would have called the player a punk in the next presser? Who knows, you don't know they didn't do that, so either way it's just speculation. He said he didn't hear anything during the exit interviews, maybe they did express themselves throughout the season? Maybe not, who knows.

He's obviously not as harmless as you assume from watching in the comforts of your own home, the guys who are best able to form an opinion on him and his antics, are the ones who spend the majority of the year around him on a daily basis. Don't you think? Also I doubt it has so much to do with being intimidated as it does with being disrespected, it's one thing to yell at a guy, most adults can handle an ass reaming if it's warranted. It's the never ending criticism that rubs thin on guys, the making a big deal out of the little things, calling guys out over small matters that can easily be handled in a two minute man to man talk face to face.
But that's exactly why it's so important to stand up and talk face to face. So it doesn't get to the point where there's a full blown mutiny. Torts is stubborn and an idiot a lot of the time, but if the core group had found their balls back in March/April and told him point blank the system is broke, maybe the season would've ended differently. Not saying he'd suddenly become Mr. Sunshine, but at least the management side of the organization would know right then and there something needs to change. Hell, maybe Sather would've fired the guy back in April if the guys stood up.

Look, I know it's hard to confront people, especially when a career is potentially on the line. But it gets to a point you have to do something to save your own sanity. No one said life on this rock was going to be easy. I've had to stand up to a few bosses in my day as a lowly peon. It's scary as hell, but sometimes its the only way for a company to fix what's broken.

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08-28-2013, 07:34 AM
  #546
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THe remaining UFA names are significant.

Lots of quality players will be available on the cheap. Fedotenko and Stralman are two players they got for nothing.

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents

Crazy to think what Pittsburgh gave up for Morrow and the guy is still unsigned. I thought he actually played well down the stretch.

Martinek is one guy who's interesting. Big, right-handed shot. The injury resume is massive, however. Maybe worth a tryout. He hasn't been healthy since he was 12.

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08-28-2013, 07:50 AM
  #547
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A lot of this stuff about Torts being fired is just conjecture. Full blown mutiny?--who the **** knows. I tend to doubt it. A couple--three, four actors seem more likely. AV is the coach now. Two years ago the Rangers overachieved big time and came within one point of winning the Presidents Trophy--losing to AV's team which pretty much was considered the class of the West. I think we have a coach with a very good track record--regular season anyway and that's a start.

Looking back if there was a signal that Torts was going to go it was when management stepped in and took Richards out of the lineup in the playoffs replacing him with Newbury Apparently Torts wanted to keep him on his 4th line which was getting shellacked by Boston's 4th line. Richards by the way would be doing us all a favor by going back and watching each and every one of his playoff games. Maybe he would groan the way the rest of us were because he sucked every game.

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08-28-2013, 07:50 AM
  #548
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Leaving aside the specifics of the blow-by-blow that led to his firing (which none of us will ever know), how many coaches that employ Torts' assclown screaming style last as LONG as four seasons? That childish idiocy always burns out after a couple of seasons.


According to Larry Brooks,Mike Sullivan was a bigger yeller and screamer than Tortorella. Bad cop. Worse bad cop.

Quote:
Oh, and by the way. If Tortorella truly does intend to become a new man, then bringing Mike Sullivan to Vancouver with him as assistant coach isn’t likely to help the transformation process.

Truth is that Sullivan, who only reinforces Tortorella’s us-against-the-world mentality, had alienated more Rangers by the end than the head coach.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/islan...bd91qJC041ZIXO

Sullivan joined Tortorella in Vancouver. Mike Gillis interviewed former Stars head coach Glen Gulutzan for the Canucks coaching job. Gulutzan is the other assistant on the Canucks staff. Someone hired Gulutzan.

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08-28-2013, 07:52 AM
  #549
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A lot of this stuff about Torts being fired is just conjecture. Full blown mutiny?--who the **** knows. I tend to doubt it. A couple--three, four actors seem more likely. AV is the coach now. Two years ago the Rangers overachieved big time and came within one point of winning the Presidents Trophy--losing to AV's team which pretty much was considered the class of the West. I think we have a coach with a very good track record--regular season anyway and that's a start.

Looking back if there was a signal that Torts was going to go it was when management stepped in and took Richards out of the lineup in the playoffs replacing him with Newbury Apparently Torts wanted to keep him on his 4th line which was getting shellacked by Boston's 4th line. Richards by the way would be doing us all a favor by going back and watching each and every one of his playoff games. Maybe he would groan the way the rest of us were because he sucked every game.

I agree with the bulk of your post, but I don't think the problem for Richards was that he was unaware of his shortcomings. In fact, he seems like the kind of guy who is going to dwell on his crappy performance 10 years from now.

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08-28-2013, 08:47 AM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
But that's exactly why it's so important to stand up and talk face to face. So it doesn't get to the point where there's a full blown mutiny. Torts is stubborn and an idiot a lot of the time, but if the core group had found their balls back in March/April and told him point blank the system is broke, maybe the season would've ended differently. Not saying he'd suddenly become Mr. Sunshine, but at least the management side of the organization would know right then and there something needs to change. Hell, maybe Sather would've fired the guy back in April if the guys stood up.
How do you know that they didn't?

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