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The Official NHLers/Oilers @ The Olympics Thread

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Old
08-28-2013, 12:24 PM
  #301
okgooil
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
I thought you were talking about Carter in the post I replied to?

Couture is another story all together.
I was, but in general we were talking about Hall being left of the team as a joke. So, I'm just saying sure, Even if I give you Carter how about Couture?

Just saying I don't think it is rose colored to say Hall belongs on the team.

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08-28-2013, 12:30 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I was, but in general we were talking about Hall being left of the team as a joke. So, I'm just saying sure, Even if I give you Carter how about Couture?

Just saying I don't think it is rose colored to say Hall belongs on the team.
Agreed. It's one of those 50/50 calls IMO. Stamkos deserved to be on the team in 2010. They still won Gold. What can you do but shrug?

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08-28-2013, 12:45 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
You can't take 1 shortened season and use that to justify Hall over Carter.
Carter has proven over a few years that he can contribute quite nicely at these types of tournaments.

I have to agree with the rose colored glasses theory put forth by that other poster.

Carter is a proven winner at this level of hockey (International Olympics). Hall, not so much.

Although I love to see Hall make the team as well.
What? Carter has never played in the Olympics.

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08-28-2013, 12:51 PM
  #304
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What? Carter has never played in the Olympics.
My mistake. I was probably thinking about Richards.

My point still stands though.

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08-28-2013, 01:22 PM
  #305
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why don't you guys like Carter? i think he's one of the better Canadian goalscorers, and well suited to play wing, which will be needed since you don't have an awful lot of elite natural wingers.

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08-28-2013, 01:47 PM
  #306
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I wasn't really planning on paying much attention to the Olympics for a lot of reasons, but if Hall doesn't make the team and Kunitz does, I might actively cheer for them to fail.

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08-28-2013, 01:57 PM
  #307
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Is there any examples of teammates making the olympic team and suceeding even when one is pretty much along for the ride?

On any major national team

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08-28-2013, 02:03 PM
  #308
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I don't understand the beef with having Carter or Couture over Hall.
Those guys (as of right now) are just as good as Hall, better 2 way players actually and have experience on big stages. I'm not surprised at all by those 2 getting mention over Hall. The 2018 Olympics will be a different story altogether but as of right now, i don't have a problem with having them over Hall.

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08-28-2013, 02:09 PM
  #309
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Just thought of another reason that helps both Hall and Eberle. Advance stats guys always lush over how productive Hall and Ebs both are with limited ice time.

Canada's bottom 6 might only get 10 min of ice a night each. Hall and Ebs can actually put up points in that span, a lot of players can't

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08-28-2013, 02:12 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I don't understand the beef with having Carter or Couture over Hall.
Those guys (as of right now) are just as good as Hall, better 2 way players actually and have experience on big stages. I'm not surprised at all by those 2 getting mention over Hall. The 2018 Olympics will be a different story altogether but as of right now, i don't have a problem with having them over Hall.
I bet about 95% of NHL fans would disagree with that statement. Hall is better now, and will be. Call that rose colored glasses. He outscored them both big time last year. He has a winning pedigree and was the first over all pick. He should be on the team ahead of both. IF you want to win, Hall is your pick. If we offered Hall to LA for Carter the deal would be done so fast Lambardi would get wiplash.

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08-28-2013, 02:15 PM
  #311
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Not having Hall on team Canada would be a joke.

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08-28-2013, 02:30 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I don't understand the beef with having Carter or Couture over Hall.
Those guys (as of right now) are just as good as Hall, better 2 way players actually and have experience on big stages. I'm not surprised at all by those 2 getting mention over Hall. The 2018 Olympics will be a different story altogether but as of right now, i don't have a problem with having them over Hall.
I could understand Couture (2 way guy, center fill line, sniper, speed) or maybe Carter (experience) But Kunitz would be a huge mistake.

I can just see it:

First game, Kunitz struggling playing against top opposition with Crosby. Needs to be bumped to another line, but has no "chemistry" with any other center so must be kept with Crosby because its the least bad spot to put him. Continues to drag our best player down.

Atleast Hall could play on any of the lines and not dependant on another guy

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08-28-2013, 02:36 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by ghostnights View Post
Not having Hall on team Canada would be a joke.
Hall is definitely deserving of being in the olympics but so are many others, Carter IMO is a better choice if that's what it comes down to. I think Hall has a higher ceiling and is as good at scoring but Carter has won a cup, is fast too, and has a really good shot too and he has a little more size including a more rounded out game.

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08-28-2013, 02:41 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by gqmixmaster View Post
Hall is definitely deserving of being in the olympics but so are many others, Carter IMO is a better choice if that's what it comes down to. I think Hall has a higher ceiling and is as good at scoring but Carter has won a cup, is fast too, and has a really good shot too and he has a little more size including a more rounded out game.
Don't get me wrong, I get it, Carter is a very good proven player, but.

PPG last year.

Hall 1.11
Carter 0.69

I mean, come on, alot of people are just selling Hall short here, the guy was one of the top 10 players in the NHL last year IMO.

I like Carter, and I like Couture, but, Hall is on the team ahead of them. If not, then I don't like our Canada GM's at all.

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08-28-2013, 02:52 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Don't get me wrong, I get it, Carter is a very good proven player, but.

PPG last year.

Hall 1.11
Carter 0.69

I mean, come on, alot of people are just selling Hall short here, the guy was one of the top 10 players in the NHL last year IMO.

I like Carter, and I like Couture, but, Hall is on the team ahead of them. If not, then I don't like our Canada GM's at all.
Carter had 10 more goals than hall and has proven he can perform at the highest level. I just think Carter gets in this time, Hall next time but it does depend on how the first half of the season goes especially for the final selections.

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08-28-2013, 02:55 PM
  #316
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Hall is just more of a threat. The way he can carry the play and enter the attacking zone. I am never worried when Carter has the puck when the oil play the kings. Hall is a game changer. I honestly think it would be very foolish for players to be chosen because they've won a cup.

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08-28-2013, 03:01 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I bet about 95% of NHL fans would disagree with that statement. Hall is better now, and will be. Call that rose colored glasses. He outscored them both big time last year. He has a winning pedigree and was the first over all pick. He should be on the team ahead of both. IF you want to win, Hall is your pick. If we offered Hall to LA for Carter the deal would be done so fast Lambardi would get wiplash.
You are wearing rose colored glasses. I wouldn't trade Hall for either of them as well but we're talking about NHL accomplishments thus far and both of those guys are more accomplished whether you want to believe it or not.
Sure, Hall scored more points than both of them for a losing team and has more upside but those guys are superior 2 way players and are prominent players on elite teams. When you are talking about an putting together an Olympic roster, they generally go for the more proven commodity over the younger player if all else is fairly equal.
As topchowda mentioned, Kunitz I would have a problem getting the nod over the Hall because he is entirely the product of playing with Crosby but none whatsoever with Carter and Couture.

Until the Oilers accomplish something and Hall establishes himself as a proven winner at the NHL level, he won't get much respect from anybody outside of the Oilers universe and will be in tough to make Team Canada's roster.
I fully expect Hall and RNH (maybe) to have a big role on the 2018 roster but it's simply too soon for both of them IMO.


Last edited by CupofOil: 08-28-2013 at 03:10 PM.
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08-28-2013, 03:18 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
You are wearing rose colored glasses. I wouldn't trade Hall for either of them as well but we're talking about NHL accomplishments thus far and both of those guys are more accomplished whether you want to believe it or not.
Sure, Hall scored more points than both of them for a losing team and has more upside but those guys are superior 2 way players and are prominent players on elite teams. When you are talking about an putting together an Olympic roster, they generally go for the more proven commodity over the younger player if all else is fairly equal.
As topchowda mentioned, Kunitz I would have a problem getting the nod over the Hall because he is entirely the product of playing with Crosby but none whatsoever with Carter and Couture.

Until the Oilers accomplish something and Hall establishes himself as a proven winner at the NHL level, he won't get much respect from anybody outside of the Oilers universe and will be in tough to make Team Canada's roster.
I fully expect Hall and RNH (maybe) to have a big role on the 2018 roster but it's simply too soon for both of them IMO.
Disagree. You are putting way to much stock in the Fact Carter and Couture play for better teams. Sure, that counts a bit, but not a lot. Hall was a better player last year. I think if you ask 95% of NHL fans they will agree.

However, if you insist I wear Rose Colored glassed becuase I think some one who finished in the top 5 in the NHL for PPG, is tough, won two memorial cups, has played for team Canada, was drafted #1 over all should be on the team. THen fine, I wear rose colored glasses.

It isn't like I am suggesting Nuge, Eblerle, or Schultz should be on the team. If you are picking a team now, and you don't look a the year Hall had last year and pick him. Then I don't want you picking team Canada.

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08-28-2013, 03:19 PM
  #319
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I don't think Hall would be competing with Carter. Carter would play RW and is comfortable not being his line's facal point. He doesn't need the puck on his stick to be effective, and when he does get the puck, it's usually in a scoring position. Coincidently, Carter isn't a strong playmaker, which could be a concern depending on his linemates.

The biggest issue I see for Hall, is that he likes to control the puck while entering the zone. This isn't a bad thing, however most of Canada's best players like to do this also. Hall would best be utilized playing with a centre who likes to quickly distribute the puck (similar to what RNH does). As we saw with Duchene in the WCs, if Hall has a centre who isn't comfortable distributing the puck frequently, Hall's effectiveness is diminished.

In regards to Couture, I think Team Canada already has a lot of two-way, experienced forwards. Hall brings a different, less abundant, dynamic to the team.

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08-28-2013, 03:21 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by ghostnights View Post
Hall is just more of a threat. The way he can carry the play and enter the attacking zone. I am never worried when Carter has the puck when the oil play the kings. Hall is a game changer. I honestly think it would be very foolish for players to be chosen because they've won a cup.
Exactly, by that logic you should also have Justin William, Nathan Horton, Bolland, ect ect on the team. Just foolish logic.

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08-28-2013, 03:22 PM
  #321
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Given the lack of respect for the oilers in general I think a lot of people will be disappointed in January

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08-28-2013, 03:29 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Disagree. You are putting way to much stock in the Fact Carter and Couture play for better teams. Sure, that counts a bit, but not a lot. Hall was a better player last year. I think if you ask 95% of NHL fans they will agree.

However, if you insist I wear Rose Colored glassed becuase I think some one who finished in the top 5 in the NHL for PPG, is tough, won two memorial cups, has played for team Canada, was drafted #1 over all should be on the team. THen fine, I wear rose colored glasses.

It isn't like I am suggesting Nuge, Eblerle, or Schultz should be on the team. If you are picking a team now, and you don't look a the year Hall had last year and pick him. Then I don't want you picking team Canada.
Carter and Couture are better 2 way players at this point than Hall, i don't think it's a stretch to say that. Hall is more of a gamebreaker for sure but i think that Team Canada wants players who play both ends of the ice and play a more structured game plus the fact that those two have more experience on a big stage.

You're basing placing Hall above those guys on the basis of one shortened season, junior accomplishments and draft pedigree.
I'm not saying that Hall shouldn't get the nod over the guys but i don't think it's such a big deal if they get chosen over him and i can understand why Team Canada would.
I have little doubt that Hall will be better than both of them but i'm talking about overall pro accomplishments where Hall still has a ways to go.

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08-28-2013, 04:20 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by gqmixmaster View Post
Hall is definitely deserving of being in the olympics but so are many others, Carter IMO is a better choice if that's what it comes down to. I think Hall has a higher ceiling and is as good at scoring but Carter has won a cup, is fast too, and has a really good shot too and he has a little more size including a more rounded out game.
having a Cup should have little to no bearing on whether or not a player be included on an Olympic team roster. They are going to be on the big ice. They need young, intelligent, fast guys who can play a 200 ft. game, bottom line. Carter is good, but he's a bit one dimensional and isn't exactly the fastest player, I'm not familiar with the idea that Carter is fast, he's certainly not as fast or dynamic a player as Hall. The one thing he has going for him is the size and perhaps overall experience, although he was left off the last Team Canada's Olympic roster, or he may have been a reserve. Either way, Hall should definitely get the nod over a guy like Carter conditional on his start.

Giroux-Crosby-Stamkos
Sharp-Toews-Tavares
Hall-Bergeron-St.Louis
Ladd-Staal-Nash

have no idea what the D could be, that is really up in the air aside from Keith, Weber and maybe Doughty.

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08-28-2013, 06:22 PM
  #324
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No slight to Hall, but how homer-colored are these glasses your'e reading through to be calling Carter a joke?
Never called him a joke.

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Hall doesn't even play PK on a bottom-5 NHL team. Carter was PKing for a contender. He's scored 40+ goals in the league before. He was on pace for 45 last year itself.
There are other players that are much better defensively that will be on Team Canada. It is about who is hot. Carter hasn't scored 40 goals in 4 years. Hall is a better player right now and I don't think it is all that close.

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He's scored big goals in big playoff games his whole career. He's a big body, he can skate, he can score, and he can play a 2-way game.
Don't really disagree about any of this. Just think Hall is better in every way except for two-way game (which is overrated, Carter is no Datsyuk) and playing center.

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Doesn't seem like a big mistake to me. You need your role players on this team.
Bergeron, Toews, Couture, Sharp...endless amount of possible role players.

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The only role Hall's ever showed he can play - and he does it quite well - is a top-line scoring player. But now he's up against names like Crosby, Staal, Giroux, and Stamkos for that role. That's why he's getting cut.
Jeff Carter's two-way game is really getting overrated here. You talk about him like he's some sort of combination of Lucic, Bergeron, and Hall.

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08-28-2013, 06:35 PM
  #325
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Couture has shown us time and time again that he has elite level offensive ability. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he lead the team in goals.

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