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The Off-Season Thread Part VI - Are we there yet? (Grabovski to Caps, 1 yr)

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08-28-2013, 06:40 PM
  #601
Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
If you develop your first round picks, you have a better chance of winning hockey games, no?
If you put it above winning itself, no. Of course not.

And that's exactly what awarding Kreider a top-six spot coming off a 20+ AHL game stretch which yielded two points would be.

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08-28-2013, 07:50 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
If you put it above winning itself, no. Of course not.

And that's exactly what awarding Kreider a top-six spot coming off a 20+ AHL game stretch which yielded two points would be.
You post a lot of borderline funny, frivolous stuff on here, but this I actually agree with.

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08-28-2013, 08:22 PM
  #603
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You post a lot of borderline funny, frivolous stuff on here, but this I actually agree with.
Um, thanks?

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08-28-2013, 08:23 PM
  #604
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If you believe all that mumbo jumbo you wrote about Kreider, than you're just kidding yourself. I would be ecstatic if Kreider works his way into a top 6 player and somehow produces 15-18 goals.
If that happens, I'll be clicking my heels together and doing cartwheels across the aisles upstairs behind the "blue seats!"
I'm not Bern. I don't believe Kreider will ever be elite in this league. And I like CK.

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08-28-2013, 08:40 PM
  #605
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Cant wait for Vancouver's 4-0-0 start.

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08-28-2013, 08:58 PM
  #606
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Part of the problem with Kreider seemed to be his losing his man and then running around. It's a hockey sense issue and basically he's still learning how to play. There's also an issue of inconsistency--maybe due to lack of confidence when things aren't going well. He has great tools--he just has to figure out how to put them to best use. Another thing is every season he seems to get off to a slow start--got to get out of the gate quicker.

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08-28-2013, 10:23 PM
  #607
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Part of the problem with Kreider seemed to be his losing his man and then running around. It's a hockey sense issue and basically he's still learning how to play. There's also an issue of inconsistency--maybe due to lack of confidence when things aren't going well. He has great tools--he just has to figure out how to put them to best use. Another thing is every season he seems to get off to a slow start--got to get out of the gate quicker.
...and move his feet. Re-watching some of the early games this summer I was surprised how often he was gliding on the ice and just watching the play instead of moving his feet and using that speed of his.

He was very, very tentative from the very beginning of the season. Not sure why, as he was beastly in the playoffs the year before. Don't know if the half season in the AHL during the lockout stripped him of his confidence or what.

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08-28-2013, 10:39 PM
  #608
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Cant wait for Vancouver's 4-0-0 start.
Better yet, Luongo 4-0-0 .978SV%, 0.89GAA, 2SO.

"Henrik Lundqvist is a product of the Tortorella's defense"

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08-29-2013, 12:34 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'm not Bern. I don't believe Kreider will ever be elite in this league. And I like CK.
Opps; agree. If he doesn't produce this year, he may not be around next year and that would be a shame!

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08-29-2013, 02:42 AM
  #610
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I'm not worried about Kreider. He works his butt off, has tons of desire and has too many tools to not make it in the league. Can he turn into a prolific goal scorer is anyone's guess. But I think he will eventually thicken up even more and just be an absolute beast. He's the kind of kid you give extra time to develop, because if he does he could be very, very hard to play against. I see him following the exact opposite development path of Dubinsky. Dubi came into the league and was doing end to end rushes in his first season. He seemed to have more offense than he turned out to have. Whereas with Kreider, he's most likely going to grow into his game. On a seperate note, I just went and re-watched SEL highlights of Jesper Fast. Who knows if this kid can stay healthy or not. And he's not an imposing body. But I will say this, the kid seems to know how to finish. I'm really excited to see this kid. Last time the Rangers had this many kids to get excited about it was the early 90s.

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08-29-2013, 02:51 AM
  #611
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I'm not going to address this question on a serious note.
Why? I am just speculating on the impact.

Imagine these tweets, @Cerny "Chris Kreider has announced a PC 8pm on Thursday. Still no confirmation #subject".

@Zipay "Suprised by @CKreider @PC. No idea what why its called. We have to wait and see".

@NewYorkRangers "@CKreider announces that he will change his name to Chris de la Kreider. #cool"

@DarrenDreger "NYR Chris Kreider has changed name to Chris de la Kreider. No relation to family name. Says he just like the sound of it."

@JeremyRoenick "Chris Kreider has change his name to Chis de la Kreider. The NHL is turning into the NBA."

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08-29-2013, 06:40 AM
  #612
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Ryan McDonagh spent the first 3 months of his pro career in the AHL. The whole Tortorella and Kreider argument has become tedious. Last season was Kreider's first year pro. McDonagh wasn't lights out in the AHL before getting recalled by the Rangers in January 2011. The AHL is tough league for a player turning pro. Just look at McDonagh. Many people here felt McDonagh hadn't done enough to earn the promotion even though Gordie Clark had indicated a few months earlier McDonagh would get the call up. Clark did a podcast with Cerny and made some comments to the Hockey News. He played better in the NHL than the AHL. Kreider played better in the 2nd half of the season in the AHL. It was a stupid 48 game season in the NHL and Tortorella didn't have much patience for young mistakes. He said that many times about Kreider and Miller. The only thing is the Rangers needed any offense and speed they could get but Kreider wasn't given a real opportunity. It didn't help Kreider was playing with a broken bone in his ankle the first few weeks of the NHL season which he suffered in the AHL right before the lockout ended. When Tortorella needed him and gave Kreider the opportunity,Kreider came through with some big plays. The Rangers need guys who can make big plays. The guy has shown he can make big plays. You can't deny the results. 6 playoff goals and 9 points in 26 career playoff games. He hasn't received big minutes in some of the games.

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08-29-2013, 07:20 AM
  #613
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Um, thanks?
I wasn't serious

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08-29-2013, 07:51 AM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
...and move his feet. Re-watching some of the early games this summer I was surprised how often he was gliding on the ice and just watching the play instead of moving his feet and using that speed of his.

He was very, very tentative from the very beginning of the season. Not sure why, as he was beastly in the playoffs the year before. Don't know if the half season in the AHL during the lockout stripped him of his confidence or what.
Quote:
Rookie Chris Kreider (bone chips/ankle) skated lightly today for the first time since an MRI on Thursday showed bone chips in his ankle and not just a bone bruise, as he was originally diagnosed. Kreider hurt himself blocking a shot for Connecticut (AHL) in a 2-1 overtime loss to Adirondack on Jan. 5.

Kreider said he does not have a set schedule moving forward in terms of how frequently he will try to skate, nor did he indicate when he might be able to play again.

“It’s better every day, I’m just taking it one day at a time,” said Kreider, who was scoreless and a minus-2 in three games before coach John Tortorella began scratching him.

Kreider isn’t sure how much the injury affected his play.

“I don’t know, it’s hard to say,” Kreider said. “Obviously it was an injury but everyone’s playing through something. I felt it all along. There were days where it was worse, days where it was better. I would have liked it to be a bone bruise like the original diagnosis. If this was a bone bruise, it gets better pretty quickly and you can play through it.

“It didn’t seem like it was getting better and bone bruises get better,” Kreider said. “I was able to go really light this morning, just stride it out and get my feet and skates. It kind of makes you stir crazy, you want to get back on the ice. You want to be with the group.”
http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/r..._cally_injury/

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08-29-2013, 08:12 AM
  #615
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I'm not worried about Kreider. He works his butt off, has tons of desire and has too many tools to not make it in the league.
I guess its easy not to worry about him when you lie to yourself about his compete level last season.

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08-29-2013, 08:23 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I guess its easy not to worry about him when you lie to yourself about his compete level last season.
Just as easy to make things up as well

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08-29-2013, 08:24 AM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This is a perfect example of Tortorella hate run wild. Take a step back for a second and look at this warped suggestion you are presenting. Essentially, you think Kreider should have been rewarded for looking totally unprepared for NHL hockey.

Give me a hard ass coach that preaches accountability over the pushover that would let that sort of crap happen any day.
I agree, hopefully the new coaching staff will institute some policy based on rewarding players for playing well. No reason to reward and cater to players like Richards for showing up unprepared to play NHL hockey.

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08-29-2013, 08:51 AM
  #618
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Ryan McDonagh spent the first 3 months of his pro career in the AHL. The whole Tortorella and Kreider argument has become tedious. Last season was Kreider's first year pro. McDonagh wasn't lights out in the AHL before getting recalled by the Rangers in January 2011. The AHL is tough league for a player turning pro. Just look at McDonagh. Many people here felt McDonagh hadn't done enough to earn the promotion even though Gordie Clark had indicated a few months earlier McDonagh would get the call up. Clark did a podcast with Cerny and made some comments to the Hockey News. He played better in the NHL than the AHL. Kreider played better in the 2nd half of the season in the AHL. It was a stupid 48 game season in the NHL and Tortorella didn't have much patience for young mistakes. He said that many times about Kreider and Miller. The only thing is the Rangers needed any offense and speed they could get but Kreider wasn't given a real opportunity. It didn't help Kreider was playing with a broken bone in his ankle the first few weeks of the NHL season which he suffered in the AHL right before the lockout ended. When Tortorella needed him and gave Kreider the opportunity,Kreider came through with some big plays. The Rangers need guys who can make big plays. The guy has shown he can make big plays. You can't deny the results. 6 playoff goals and 9 points in 26 career playoff games. He hasn't received big minutes in some of the games.
All the stuff about McDonagh and how tough the AHL can be that you mention is absolutely true. I'm not worried about Kreider gliding here and there. That happens all the time with any player. Chris has been a bit weak though keeping track of the guy he's checking and/or picking up the wrong guy, late guy or no guy at all when someone else picks up his coverage for him. The no training camp and shortened season IMO did him no favors. Torts was not getting any production out of his bottom 6 and Kreider wasn't scoring either so his less than stellar defensive awareness kind of left him in limbo land. One might also throw on top Torts lack of patience to begin with. In some respects it's kind of a lost season and hopefully AV will get him up to speed on things he needs to work on in quick time.

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08-29-2013, 09:06 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
All the stuff about McDonagh and how tough the AHL can be that you mention is absolutely true. I'm not worried about Kreider gliding here and there. That happens all the time with any player. Chris has been a bit weak though keeping track of the guy he's checking and/or picking up the wrong guy, late guy or no guy at all when someone else picks up his coverage for him. The no training camp and shortened season IMO did him no favors. Torts was not getting any production out of his bottom 6 and Kreider wasn't scoring either so his less than stellar defensive awareness kind of left him in limbo land. One might also throw on top Torts lack of patience to begin with. In some respects it's kind of a lost season and hopefully AV will get him up to speed on things he needs to work on in quick time.
Good points.

Unfortunately they will inevitably be countered with the ignorant viewpoint that Kreider is an offensive player and shouldve been consistently in the top 6, consequences be damned. Its not only short-sighted, but its an awful way to develop a player. I would only be on board with something like that if you're talking about a player with undeniable, eye-popping offensive skill, which Kreider doesnt really possess.

And I do think the Kreider discussion is very important. Its a microcosm of an epidemic on this board involving over-inflating the expectations of players, and then blaming everybody and everything except the player when expectations aren't met.

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08-29-2013, 09:10 AM
  #620
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I guess its easy not to worry about him when you lie to yourself about his compete level last season.
I disagree 110% with this. Questioning his compete level? What basis do you have that he didn't want to compete? I understand he was tentative, but from what I saw, it was because he was overthinking everything instead of just playing like he had in the playoffs the year before.

Like Pierre Mcguire said, you have a young thoroughbred horse, why are you trying to turn him into a working horse? Or something along those lines. Every player can't be totally solid defensively and block shots. He was never really allowed to grow with the team and learn from his mistakes because whenever he would make a mistake, he would be benched immediately. How is that a good way to develop a young player?

And comparing Kreider to Stepan and McDaongh is foolish. Every player is different and trying to develop them all using the same path is a great way to ruin a lot of prospects.

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08-29-2013, 09:13 AM
  #621
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Good points.

Unfortunately they will inevitably be countered with the ignorant viewpoint that Kreider is an offensive player and shouldve been consistently in the top 6, consequences be damned. Its not only short-sighted, but its an awful way to develop a player. I would only be on board with something like that if you're talking about a player with undeniable, eye-popping offensive skill, which Kreider doesnt really possess.

And I do think the Kreider discussion is very important. Its a microcosm of an epidemic on this board involving over-inflating the expectations of players, and then blaming everybody and everything except the player when expectations aren't met.
There's no need for him to be a top-6 player, but there is no reason for him to play on the 4th line either. The team was starved for offense. Live with the growing pains.

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08-29-2013, 09:16 AM
  #622
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I disagree 110% with this. Questioning his compete level? What basis do you have that he didn't want to compete? I understand he was tentative, but from what I saw, it was because he was overthinking everything instead of just playing like he had in the playoffs the year before.

Like Pierre Mcguire said, you have a young thoroughbred horse, why are you trying to turn him into a working horse? Or something along those lines. Every player can't be totally solid defensively and block shots. He was never really allowed to grow with the team and learn from his mistakes because whenever he would make a mistake, he would be benched immediately. How is that a good way to develop a young player?

And comparing Kreider to Stepan and McDaongh is foolish. Every player is different and trying to develop them all using the same path is a great way to ruin a lot of prospects.
Do you ever get sick of making excuses for Kreider? I mean, the entire post, excuse after excuse after excuse.

Whatever you want to call it, lack of compete level, tentative and overthinking, the fact remains you had a player that might as well have been renamed Chris Gleider. Funny you mention throroughbreds considering race horses are one of the dumbest animals on earth. What you're condoning here is to let Kreider and all his faults on the other side of the puck to roam free without consequence. That, my friend, is how you ruin a young player.

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08-29-2013, 09:18 AM
  #623
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There's no need for him to be a top-6 player, but there is no reason for him to play on the 4th line either. The team was starved for offense. Live with the growing pains.
In a 48 game season? Yea, OK. How would you have felt if the team missed the playoffs but Kreider scored a couple more goals. Satisfied?

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08-29-2013, 09:18 AM
  #624
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Eagerly awaiting the "Fire AV" threads that will undoubtedly appear if Kreider plays in the bottom 6 at all this season...

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08-29-2013, 09:20 AM
  #625
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Do you ever get sick of making excuses for Kreider? I mean, the entire post, excuse after excuse after excuse.

Whatever you want to call it, lack of compete level, tentative and overthinking, the fact remains you had a player that might as well have been renamed Chris Gleider. Funny you mention throroughbreds considering race horses are one of the dumbest animals on earth. What you're condoning here is to let Kreider and all his faults on the other side of the puck to roam free without consequence. That, my friend, is how you ruin a young player.
You do realize that there is a huge discrepancy between these things right?

Do you ever get tired of knocking the Rangers organization over and over and over?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Please go re-read what I have written. Where did I condone him just throwing his defensive responsibilities to the wind? Maybe he could learn while he is playing considering he would bring something the team needs both now and in the future? Oh the horror!!

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