HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Gagner New Captain?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-29-2013, 02:10 PM
  #301
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Gagner played the 7th most shorthanded minutes per game of any Oilers forward last season.

Here are the players who played more than him on a per game basis:

Eric Belanger: 3:08 TOI/G
Jerred Smithson: 2:57 TOI/G
Lennart Petrell: 2:31 TOI/G
Ryan Smyth: 2:29 TOI/G
Anton Lander: 1:45 TOI/G

What a distinguished list of players to be viewed as a second option to.
Alternately Gagner was 5th among forwards in total pk time as I stated a mere 30 secs behind horcoff. Why not use that metric of what the player ACTUALLY contributed.

Surely you can see the absolute silliness(I hope) of a metric that has Anton Lander or Jerred Smithson making a great contribution.

Congratulations, you just entered more noise to the discussion. Eliminate the obvious Lander and Smithson(limited games played) and Gagner is again 5th in pk time.

As far as the bolded perhaps you can ascertain that Gagner minutes were on demand for this club. With him actually being wanted on the PP and ES and with those minutes of course occupying a good amount of his time.
For intance GAgner led all Oiler forwards in total time on ice last year. Or even Toi/game as you like to cite. So back at you, "what a distinguished player to be second to no one to.." (fixed)

So we see that its laughable you would frame your argument in such a way. I wonder what your reply is.


Last edited by Replacement: 08-29-2013 at 02:37 PM.
Replacement is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:16 PM
  #302
surshot*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OILCOUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda Bear View Post
This is a great post.

The two questions you should have been asking yourself last season were:
1) why was Gagner having to cover for a pinching defenceman so regularly?
and 2) where the hell were the wingers ever?

We had an awful system last season that exposed the centres and defencemen while letting the wingers stay pretty.
Sadly this was very evident and cost us games.

surshot* is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:16 PM
  #303
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
On ice results are not the only indicator of hard work.

And regarding the Captaincy, there are a hell of a lot of more things that are considered other than on ice performance.

Locker room demeanour
Willingness to improve on and off the ice
Oilers social events
fan relationships and player relations
intensity
team building
fairness to other players on the team
taking control of a game in certain situations
character
due diligence
bravery
Doing what the team needs you to do to better the team

(I know someone is going to pick apart this list like a vulture on a rotting corpse, but I forgive you )

Gagner has improved in many area's of his game, on and off the ice, including defense, over the course of his career so far.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge that for some reason though.

The guy has improved many aspects of his game every year he's been an Oiler.
Where did I say that he hasn't improved? Feel free to point that out for me. Now here is how I see it, he still needs a lot of work defensively and on faceoffs. Being a true team guy, wouldn't he be improving in these areas? All of RNH, Hall and Nail made significant strides defensively last season, Eberle was the one guy being considered part of the core that IMO did not besides Gagner. I have no issues with Gagner off the ice, he seems like a nice guy, however the bottom line is that he has not improved important aspects of his game enough at this point for me to consider him the hardest worker on the team or captain material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellacious View Post
He does not want to admit it because it would mean he is wrong. Human nature I suppose.
Yes because my opinion differs from yours I am wrong. I guess his 43% in faceoffs showed great improvement and his - rating. Gagner has room to improve to be a better player if he puts in the work and really wants to improve on D and in the dot. IMO he did take a step forward last season offensively although I guess we'll see how much of that may have been due to a shortened season this season. His offensive numbers should be solid this year, 60 points, maybe more depending on how Perron fits into the team and of course injuries.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is online now  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:21 PM
  #304
GreatKeith
Super Smashed Oilers
 
GreatKeith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,616
vCash: 2394
I can't believe how many people throw their arms up over a rumour. The coaches and players know a lot more than we do. They'll make the best choice regardless of how people on here feel. Dustin Brown has as many rings as Crosby. Is he a better captain?

GreatKeith is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:27 PM
  #305
surshot*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OILCOUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Where did I say that he hasn't improved? Feel free to point that out for me. Now here is how I see it, he still needs a lot of work defensively and on faceoffs. Being a true team guy, wouldn't he be improving in these areas? All of RNH, Hall and Nail made significant strides defensively last season, Eberle was the one guy being considered part of the core that IMO did not besides Gagner. I have no issues with Gagner off the ice, he seems like a nice guy, however the bottom line is that he has not improved important aspects of his game enough at this point for me to consider him the hardest worker on the team or captain material.



Yes because my opinion differs from yours I am wrong. I guess his 43% in faceoffs showed great improvement and his - rating. Gagner has room to improve to be a better player if he puts in the work and really wants to improve on D and in the dot. IMO he did take a step forward last season offensively although I guess we'll see how much of that may have been due to a shortened season this season. His offensive numbers should be solid this year, 60 points, maybe more depending on how Perron fits into the team and of course injuries.
He improved defensively as well. His back checking was the biggest improvement. Do you know what the difference between a 43% faceoff guy and a 50% faceoff guy? 1 Faceoff win a game. Perhaps with wingers that help and a crack down on faceoff cheating he well improve that number. But disregard it to support your opinion, thats fine.

surshot* is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:27 PM
  #306
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,673
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
How did he get the second most points on the team last year hemmed into his own zone.

He must have quite the shot to get er in the net from below his own blue line.
Luck on the power play.

worraps is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:31 PM
  #307
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,673
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda Bear View Post
Why weren't his wingers being aggressive enough for contested draws? If he had better support on his faceoffs for the loose puck, his numbers would've looked better (maybe around 46-47%).

The wingers played high to the points, the defence played man-to-man instead of zonally and the centres were tasked with playing board-to-board instead of dot-to-dot in the defensive zone.

Only RNH, an on-ice genius with beautiful stickwork who deservedly went first overall in 2011, managed to keep his head above water in that system--and he benefited from Taylor Hall regularly ignoring our defensive scheme.

I'm not going to pretend that Gagner is some amazing defensive player, but just as the centre impacts his teammates the most on the ice...so too are centres the most impacted by teammates on the ice. If everyone's running around or not getting involved, you're not going to look good.

"But what about previous seasons?"
You mean when we had an even worse collection of players?
Kreuger's moronic system certainly didn't help nor did playing a significant amount of time with Yak and Hemsky early in the year.

But he was underwater with a relatively strong defensive winger in MPS too.

I like Sam as a scoring winger on most teams but I can count the number of cycles he has broken up on one hand.

worraps is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:33 PM
  #308
oilexport
Registered User
 
oilexport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
I can't believe how many people throw their arms up over a rumour. The coaches and players know a lot more than we do. They'll make the best choice regardless of how people on here feel. Dustin Brown has as many rings as Crosby. Is he a better captain?
I think this disscusion is based on the rumours, people get excited because they are passionate about the Oilers and hockey. Is that not what this board is for ?

If the passion was not there, neither would the $100 tickets that pay for Gagner or Halls contract.

There are many knowledgeable fans that watch the team from the stands that have a right to express thier opinion based on what they see "on the ice" and off. Having said that, we as fans do not see everything behind "closed doors", so most give an opinion on this bases anyway.

great discussion as always (well...almost always) on this Board !

oilexport is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:36 PM
  #309
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellacious View Post
He improved defensively as well. His back checking was the biggest improvement. Do you know what the difference between a 43% faceoff guy and a 50% faceoff guy? 1 Faceoff win a game. Perhaps with wingers that help and a crack down on faceoff cheating he well improve that number. But disregard it to support your opinion, thats fine.
Has he ever had a 50% faceoff season? Since you know it's just 1 a game/etc. he must've alternated year to year between 50% and 40%..... Backchecking you say? Like that play where he laid on the ice whining while the puck went the other way? Or when he gets caught too far up ice by completely abandoning his defensive duties as a center? He has a long ways to go as of now he is suspect defensively at ES, he can improve on that, that's what good players do.

Bryanbryoil is online now  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:38 PM
  #310
surshot*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OILCOUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
I can't believe how many people throw their arms up over a rumour. The coaches and players know a lot more than we do. They'll make the best choice regardless of how people on here feel. Dustin Brown has as many rings as Crosby. Is he a better captain?
Its more than just a rumour coming from Wanye. He only reports something when he feels it is legit. His source is guaranteed in the know.

surshot* is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:38 PM
  #311
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Has he ever had a 50% faceoff season? Since you know it's just 1 a game/etc. he must've alternated year to year between 50% and 40%..... Backchecking you say? Like that play where he laid on the ice whining while the puck went the other way? Or when he gets caught too far up ice by completely abandoning his defensive duties as a center? He has a long ways to go as of now he is suspect defensively at ES, he can improve on that, that's what good players do.
You're seeing what you want to see.

Replacement is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:38 PM
  #312
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,704
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Gagner played the 7th most shorthanded minutes per game of any Oilers forward last season.

Here are the players who played more than him on a per game basis:

Eric Belanger: 3:08 TOI/G
Jerred Smithson: 2:57 TOI/G
Lennart Petrell: 2:31 TOI/G
Ryan Smyth: 2:29 TOI/G
Anton Lander: 1:45 TOI/G

What a distinguished list of players to be viewed as a second option to.
Those might not be stars, but they're all damn good defensive forwards. Why is it a shock that Gagner wouldn't get the opportunity to kill penalties before them? He played the PP, they played the PK. No point in playing a couple people 30 minutes and others for 2

The Nuge is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:42 PM
  #313
nhlisajoke
Registered User
 
nhlisajoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 597
vCash: 500
Come visit us at the Oxford Save-On-Foods location, meet Oilers Kids Club CAPTAIN Sam Gagner and pick up your Kids Club package.

Foreshadowing.............

not going to lie, kinda has a nice ring to it... Captain Sam Gagner

nhlisajoke is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:56 PM
  #314
oilman9482
Registered User
 
oilman9482's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 406
vCash: 500
Top 10 list of people that should be the next Captain of the Edmonton Oilers:

1) Hall
2) Smid
3) Eberle
4) RNH
5) Ference
6) Jones
7) Yakupov
8) Perron
9) Petry
10) Gagner

**Note** I was being facetious about #10, I would really choose myself at that position before Gagner.

oilman9482 is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 02:57 PM
  #315
Travis093
Travis
 
Travis093's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Saskatoon
Country: Canada
Posts: 100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlisajoke View Post
Come visit us at the Oxford Save-On-Foods location, meet Oilers Kids Club CAPTAIN Sam Gagner and pick up your Kids Club package.

Foreshadowing.............

not going to lie, kinda has a nice ring to it... Captain Sam Gagner
Club Captain sounds pretty nice too..

Travis093 is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 03:08 PM
  #316
surshot*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OILCOUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Has he ever had a 50% faceoff season? Since you know it's just 1 a game/etc. he must've alternated year to year between 50% and 40%..... Backchecking you say? Like that play where he laid on the ice whining while the puck went the other way? Or when he gets caught too far up ice by completely abandoning his defensive duties as a center? He has a long ways to go as of now he is suspect defensively at ES, he can improve on that, that's what good players do.
Why ask a question you already know and has nothing to do with what i said? Not going to play that game with you. He has problems winning faceoffs against cheaters, The league is cracking down on winning faceoffs with your feet. He has spent the last 4 seasons taking faceoffs against guys he had no business taking faceoff against, thanks to Horcoff and Belanger. Just because he took them does not make him bad at faceoffs it means he was thrown into the fire.

Yes I said back checking and it was evident that it improved with numerous takeaways on the back check he even took a few penalty's for someone that is so weak and small. I can recall more then one. But yet you only recall one defensive lapse that happens to every center in the league. Its game of mistakes and his mistakes are not that evident. Him abandoning his position is total BS, He made the NHL because of his positioning and its rather good. He made mistakes its not any where near a problem area for him. Say what you want the proof is in the pudding.

If any of what you say is true he would not be getting paid like he is, he would not be a serious contender for captain, he would not have lead the team in ice time, he would not be getting it on with that hot ass docter, He would not have so many haters like you. The last one is how know he is good even Gretzky had a **** load of haters as well. People who suck have zero haters and they just suck.

And no I am not saying he is as good as Gretzky just saying he is good. Why is that so hard for you to admit???????????

surshot* is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 03:12 PM
  #317
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,704
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman9482 View Post
Top 10 list of people that should be the next Captain of the Edmonton Oilers:

1) Hall
2) Smid
3) Eberle
4) RNH
5) Ference
6) Jones
7) Yakupov
8) Perron
9) Petry
10) Gagner

**Note** I was being facetious about #10, I would really choose myself at that position before Gagner.
Why even bother posting something so ridiculous? Are you just looking to get a rise out of people?

The Nuge is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 03:50 PM
  #318
oilman9482
Registered User
 
oilman9482's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 406
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Why even bother posting something so ridiculous? Are you just looking to get a rise out of people?
I've been saying for the past 3 seasons that Gagner is supremely overrated. He only gets his points because of the people around him. His defensive game is below average. The only thing about him that I like is his effort. He has the talent of a top line AHL player at best. That's my opinion. All those people on the list are better suited to be a captain LONG TERM. Hall should be the captain and this thread about Gagner made me laugh and cry a bit at the same time.

oilman9482 is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 03:53 PM
  #319
T-Funk
Registered User
 
T-Funk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Why even bother posting something so ridiculous? Are you just looking to get a rise out of people?
His list is exaggerated just a little, but I'm sure tons of oilers fans have at least Hall, Eberle, Ference, and possibly Smid above Gagner.

T-Funk is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 03:53 PM
  #320
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,704
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman9482 View Post
I've been saying for the past 3 seasons that Gagner is supremely overrated. He only gets his points because of the people around him. His defensive game is below average. The only thing about him that I like is his effort. He has the talent of a top line AHL player at best. That's my opinion. All those people on the list are better suited to be a captain LONG TERM. Hall should be the captain and this thread about Gagner made me laugh and cry a bit at the same time.
ok then...

The Nuge is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 03:54 PM
  #321
Jimmi Jenkins
So Rainy
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman9482 View Post
I've been saying for the past 3 seasons that Gagner is supremely overrated. He only gets his points because of the people around him. His defensive game is below average. The only thing about him that I like is his effort. He has the talent of a top line AHL player at best. That's my opinion. All those people on the list are better suited to be a captain LONG TERM. Hall should be the captain and this thread about Gagner made me laugh and cry a bit at the same time.
What? Now I know you're trolling. Plenty of people hate Gagner, like Horcoff before him, but even those who hate him understand he's an NHL player. Not sure what's complicated about that.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 03:54 PM
  #322
Jimmi Jenkins
So Rainy
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
His list is exaggerated just a little, but I'm sure tons of oilers fans have at least Hall, Eberle, Ference, and possibly Smid above Gagner.
His follow up didn't exactly support this case though. But you are correct yes.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 03:57 PM
  #323
oilman9482
Registered User
 
oilman9482's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 406
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
What? Now I know you're trolling. Plenty of people hate Gagner, like Horcoff before him, but even those who hate him understand he's an NHL player. Not sure what's complicated about that.
He is an NHL player on a losing/non competitive team. He fits nowhere on a playoff team. Maybe, and I mean maybe, he fits somewhere as a third line winger. His ability to play the center position is SUPREMELY overrated.

oilman9482 is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 04:06 PM
  #324
Jimmi Jenkins
So Rainy
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman9482 View Post
He is an NHL player on a losing/non competitive team. He fits nowhere on a playoff team. Maybe, and I mean maybe, he fits somewhere as a third line winger. His ability to play the center position is SUPREMELY overrated.
ok then.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline  
Old
08-29-2013, 04:18 PM
  #325
surshot*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OILCOUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman9482 View Post
He is an NHL player on a losing/non competitive team. He fits nowhere on a playoff team. Maybe, and I mean maybe, he fits somewhere as a third line winger. His ability to play the center position is SUPREMELY overrated.
This is how we know Gagner is good. Nobody says crap like this unless your good.LOL.

Jealous much?

I read a good article about haters that Joe Rogan twitted the other day. The saying haters are gonna hate is true. There is two types of people, there is the people who have a "positive disposition" that are logical and largely productive in the way they live there life and enjoy it. Then you have the negative disposition people who are complacent and very rude and do not like much if anything in this world and overly voice there not very well thought out opinions as fact. I suggest going and reading on anybody that is curious on the psychology of a hater and why they exist. Even haters should go maybe decide to make a life change after reading for the better.

surshot* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.