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Old
08-30-2013, 10:26 AM
  #651
RangerBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
The Patriots and Steelers win multiple super bowls because of good management and players. The Giants due it because of luck.

I remember one fan congratulating us for the wild card round playoff win in 2012, as he called it our first playoff win in 12 years because "2007 was a fluke and doesn't count."
How can you deny the Giants were fortunate to win their last 2 Super Bowls? They weren't the best team but were playing their best football at the right time. That's hard to do once. They did it twice. They managed to win both times. They didn't win one and lose one. They remind me of the baseball Giants. They won 2 out of 3 years. They weren't the best team. The Texas Rangers were the best team in baseball in 2010 and 2011. They have nothing to show for it. They blew the 2011 World Series to the Cardinals who were like the football Giants. Got hot at the right time. Magic carpet ride.

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08-30-2013, 10:53 AM
  #652
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In almost every sport, every year its the hottest team that gets in.. In 07 the Giants had to go through Dallas, Green Bay in a frozen tundra and then the 18-0 patriots. in 2011, we had to win our final game to get in against Dallas, then beat Atlanta, then both GB and SF on the road, the NE AGAIN. I dont call that luck, both of those are ridiculous runs, Giants earned both

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08-30-2013, 11:16 AM
  #653
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Wow...massive homerism on display. When you lose to 5, 6, 7 other teams during a season and manage to get hot like that not once but twice there is most certainly luck and fortune involved moreso than other champ teams. Unless you believe underdogs and Cinderella stories are myths and everything is predestined. But it isn't. For any team that ever wins it all there is a massive amount of luck involved anyway. The giants just had even more of it than usual. No one said it was all luck. Anybody who says it was all luck is obviously a complete fool. Of course they had to earn it, they had to capitalize on their good fortune but the fact remains that the good fortune was there.

Also everyteam that has ever won a super bowl has had to beat multiple teams at home and on the road I don't know that saying "they beat teams" is a good way to defeat the thought that "They beat teams and were a little more lucky to do it than other teams when you consider the multitude of flaws they were unable to overcome during the season that nearly cost them a PO berth"

Think about it. "They didn't beat teams because they were lucky! Look I can prove it. They beat teams! See! Proves it wasn't lucky!"

I love the Giants too. Lost my voice cheering for them in both super bowls. Love watching them.

Considering what Brown can do for you based on when he played it is definitely unfortunate/unlucky. The irony of accepting misfortune while denying good fortune...


Last edited by shinchanyo: 08-30-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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08-30-2013, 11:47 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
How can you deny the Giants were fortunate to win their last 2 Super Bowls? They weren't the best team but were playing their best football at the right time. That's hard to do once. They did it twice. They managed to win both times. They didn't win one and lose one. They remind me of the baseball Giants. They won 2 out of 3 years. They weren't the best team. The Texas Rangers were the best team in baseball in 2010 and 2011. They have nothing to show for it. They blew the 2011 World Series to the Cardinals who were like the football Giants. Got hot at the right time. Magic carpet ride.
Just because the Giants played their best football in the playoffs doesn't mean the teams they beat werent playing their best. Is it so hard to believe the Giants firing on all cylinders were the best team in the league?

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08-30-2013, 12:02 PM
  #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Giants has used up their luck with their 2 most recent playoff runs. You guys have no reason to complain about luck.
lol at you having the audacity to say that was luck. Eagles fan?

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08-30-2013, 12:03 PM
  #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
How can you deny the Giants were fortunate to win their last 2 Super Bowls? They weren't the best team but were playing their best football at the right time. That's hard to do once. They did it twice. They managed to win both times. They didn't win one and lose one. They remind me of the baseball Giants. They won 2 out of 3 years. They weren't the best team. The Texas Rangers were the best team in baseball in 2010 and 2011. They have nothing to show for it. They blew the 2011 World Series to the Cardinals who were like the football Giants. Got hot at the right time. Magic carpet ride.
Laughable.

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08-30-2013, 01:23 PM
  #657
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Luck is when you don't play well, make absolutely no plays and the other team continually bite themselves in the foot, yet you still win.

This isn't the 80's anymore. The 15-1 teams aren't guaranteed SBs. Parity is here and there isn't much separation with teams so that 9-7 team has as good a chance as the 15-1 team.

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08-30-2013, 01:42 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Laughable.
It isn't. You're saying that though because what he's saying legitimately takes away some of the luster of your teams championship so it annoys you.

Tampa bay had the opposing teams starting C go nuts and disappear. That's massively lucky. Favre melts down with an awful throw. That's lucky. Obviously the TB luck is greater. Luck plays a role it isn't just the Giants being the best in the world. They won a championship game but I agree with anyone who says the Patriots were a better team overall. The better team doesn't always win though. It didn't that day.

It's just silly homerism to 100% dismiss fortune and luck as a factor. Out of all the super bowl teams there is one that was the luckiest to win. I don't know if they were the actual luckiest SB winning team but it's a good bet the Giants were beneficiaries of luck more than most

Why did the Giants lose so many games in the regular season? Almost all other teams in the Giants exact situation failed miserably. For the Giants to succeed there likely had to be something intangible that helped. I don't know how much of it was extra luck but clearly there was some of it.

Hell the Jets in 02 are a perfect example. They annihilated green bay, N.E. and made the Colts look like a college team yet they got manhandled by Oakland. To even make the PO's a scenario had to unfold in the last few weeks that was unbelievably fortunate. They got luckier than most teams to make the PO that year. For a team to sustain a run like the Giants when they had a plethora of flaws there is luck.

You want to try and logically explain why luck was not involved than by all means go ahead but you can't.

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08-30-2013, 02:32 PM
  #659
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You guys sound the Devil fans when other fans say something about the Devils. A little too sensitive.

They got all of the bounces of the ball. Just like the Islanders got every bounce the puck in their run. Puck luck.

The 2007 Super Bowl and the Tyree catch. A normal play.

The 2011 Super Bowl. 9-7. The 4th seed. Kyle Williams.

Just stop.

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08-30-2013, 02:51 PM
  #660
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Or you could just as easily make the argument that those Giants teams were great teams that ran into hard luck during their losses. I love how you don't even put forth that argument since it doesn't suit your position.

Do yourself a favor and take your own advice. Just stop.

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08-30-2013, 02:57 PM
  #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
It isn't. You're saying that though because what he's saying legitimately takes away some of the luster of your teams championship so it annoys you.
No offense, but good teams make their own luck. Just because you root for a team that has no clue what victory is does not mean that championship teams are winning by luck. What annoys me is this consistent ridiculousness coming from fans of unsuccessful teams that write the Giants off as luck. I watched every game of both of those runs and the team was very unlucky during the regular season. They were super talented but ended up playing down to the level of their inferior opponents.

This has been a trend for years with the Giants. Any Giants fan can tell you about that.

In 2011, the two losses to the Red Skins were exactly that. Playing to the level of a lower team. And they were completely screwed in the loss to the Packers (I love how that's not brought up since it doesn't suit the narrative that the Giants won based on luck). You flip those games, and the team is an 12-4 team. Similar **** can be said about the 2007 run as well.

Take RB's advice that he should take himself:

Just stop.

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08-30-2013, 03:06 PM
  #662
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It's extremely fair to say that the Giants were not the best team in either year they won the SB.

But just because that is the case, that does not mean they simply won because of "luck."

Under Coughlin, the Giants have typically been extremely prepared for games late in the season/playoffs (aside from December sometimes), and play extremely well on the road, two things that are crucial to playoff runs.

There's such a small margin for error in a 16 game season, let alone individual football games, that I think it's unfair to say any team winning was just because of luck (unless you're a bitter fan of a rival).

I'm a Jets fan, but give credit where credit is due.

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08-30-2013, 03:09 PM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
No offense, but good teams make their own luck. Just because you root for a team that has no clue what victory is does not mean that championship teams are winning by luck. What annoys me is this consistent ridiculousness coming from fans of unsuccessful teams that write the Giants off as luck. I watched every game of both of those runs and the team was very unlucky during the regular season. They were super talented but ended up playing down to the level of their inferior opponents.

This has been a trend for years with the Giants. Any Giants fan can tell you about that.

In 2011, the two losses to the Red Skins were exactly that. Playing to the level of a lower team. And they were completely screwed in the loss to the Packers (I love how that's not brought up since it doesn't suit the narrative that the Giants won based on luck). You flip those games, and the team is an 12-4 team. Similar **** can be said about the 2007 run as well.

Take RB's advice that he should take himself:

Just stop.
To me, being lucky would have meant having favorable matchups, and avoiding unfavorable ones. The only place I could see the Giants being lucky was having the Niners beat the Saints, a team the Giants have had their problems with over the years. Otherwise, we are talking about to championship runs where the only game the Giants had homefield advantage for was against a Falcon team that had a better regular season record than the Giants. Five of the other 7 wins were on the road, including at GB twice. In both years, they beat the team with the best regular season record.

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08-30-2013, 03:37 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
To me, being lucky would have meant having favorable matchups, and avoiding unfavorable ones. The only place I could see the Giants being lucky was having the Niners beat the Saints, a team the Giants have had their problems with over the years. Otherwise, we are talking about to championship runs where the only game the Giants had homefield advantage for was against a Falcon team that had a better regular season record than the Giants. Five of the other 7 wins were on the road, including at GB twice. In both years, they beat the team with the best regular season record.
Exactly.

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08-30-2013, 03:42 PM
  #666
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Love the whiners who's teams never win.Yea its luck going into GB and beating them in 40 below temps...Corey Webster picking off Favre was all luck..Winning on the road is all luck...right...It goes both ways too if you wish what about Matt Dodge kicking to Desaun Jackson instead of booting it out of bounds that cost us the division and the play offs..and last year the offensive pass intereference call on Barden against the Eagles when all we needed was to take a knee and kick the game winner..Cost us the division again and that call was mighty iffy...Winning 4 games in the post season you are gonna get some breaks a long the way...Our pass rush both times had more to do with it than luck..Ask Brady

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08-30-2013, 03:51 PM
  #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
You guys sound the Devil fans when other fans say something about the Devils. A little too sensitive.

They got all of the bounces of the ball. Just like the Islanders got every bounce the puck in their run. Puck luck.

The 2007 Super Bowl and the Tyree catch. A normal play.

The 2011 Super Bowl. 9-7. The 4th seed. Kyle Williams.

Just stop.
That's probably the ONLY game where you can say they got "lucky" in.

During the two SB runs, they badly outplayed most of the teams that were suppose to be so much better. They made plays to win the games. They didn't get "lucky" due to "bounces" falling their way.

That championship game vs the 9er's, was going to come down to a mistake the way the game was going. Both defenses where outstanding.

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08-30-2013, 03:51 PM
  #668
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How do you define which team is "best?"

If it's regular season Ws, then sure, those Giants teams were far from the best. If it's the ability to find ways to make plays and win games when it counts, then I'd say those Giants teams were among the best in the league.

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08-30-2013, 04:01 PM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
No offense, but good teams make their own luck. Just because you root for a team that has no clue what victory is does not mean that championship teams are winning by luck. What annoys me is this consistent ridiculousness coming from fans of unsuccessful teams that write the Giants off as luck. I watched every game of both of those runs and the team was very unlucky during the regular season. They were super talented but ended up playing down to the level of their inferior opponents.

This has been a trend for years with the Giants. Any Giants fan can tell you about that.

In 2011, the two losses to the Red Skins were exactly that. Playing to the level of a lower team. And they were completely screwed in the loss to the Packers (I love how that's not brought up since it doesn't suit the narrative that the Giants won based on luck). You flip those games, and the team is an 12-4 team. Similar **** can be said about the 2007 run as well.

Take RB's advice that he should take himself:

Just stop.

I sh** you not I originally wrote that teams make their own luck but it seemed like it was redundant to say. Like I said in the beginning anyone writing it off as JUST luck is a complete fool.

But simultaneously anyone denying that there was very likely more luck than usual involved is also just in denial. Of course it isn't JUST luck and if I was making that argument then you are right and I should just stop. But I am making a valid point about how luck likely played a bigger role than is normal for a Sb winner. The thing that annoys me is people get upset and can't admit it. Yea the Giants took advantage of it more than the other team. That's why they got to win 2 championships despite their multitude of losses throughout those two years and that's a good thing. I would kill for my jets to take advantage of luck for once instead of falling on their own sword every season.

Also why is it that the giants played down to the skins but then no one simultaneously says the Patriots and other PO teams maybe played down to the Giants? Which again would indicate the Giants were not the best team and they just got lucky that the worn out Patriots played down to them. Or does this argument only apply to make the Giants look good? But it doesn't matter if they weren't the best team because they managed to win despite their previous failures.

How did they make Wes Welker drop that pass? I mean come on that's a play that is 100% luck. So was the missed chip shot FG (and wasn't there an atrocious end zone drop too?) which allowed the Patriots to make it to the SB. Maybe the Ravens would have won against the Giants? I just can't dismiss luck altogether but as I said I would never say that it was all luck or even mostly luck.


Last edited by shinchanyo: 08-30-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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08-30-2013, 04:32 PM
  #670
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The 2007 Giants had beat a better team in the 18-0 Patriots. But I don't think any of the other teams they beat along the way were better. So, really only the SB itself was an upset. Remember they lost to the Patriots by only 3 points in week 17.

In 2007, Despite the 9-7 record, that was a year where the Giants were quite healthy and, in my opinion, were the best team going into the postseason. So I wouldn't call that one an upset. They had beat the Patriots that season already.

I'd be thrilled if the Jets beat the Cowboys or Eagles in the Super Bowl, incidentally.

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08-30-2013, 04:37 PM
  #671
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During the two SB runs, they badly outplayed most of the teams that were suppose to be so much better. They made plays to win the games.
Pretty much all that needs to be said. The crying is hilarious.

Sure, they got some bounces. If you dissect every SB winner, ever, you will be able to find numerous instances where they got "lucky". That's sports. Beyond that, that's life.

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08-30-2013, 04:40 PM
  #672
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The 2007 Giants had beat a better team in the 18-0 Patriots. But I don't think any of the other teams they beat along the way were better. So, really only the SB itself was an upset. Remember they lost to the Patriots by only 3 points in week 17.

In 2007, Despite the 9-7 record, that was a year where the Giants were quite healthy and, in my opinion, were the best team going into the postseason. So I wouldn't call that one an upset. They had beat the Patriots that season already.

I'd be thrilled if the Jets beat the Cowboys or Eagles in the Super Bowl, incidentally.
Thats wild that you thought that.

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08-30-2013, 04:40 PM
  #673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
How did they make Wes Welker drop that pass? I mean come on that's a play that is 100% luck. So was the missed chip shot FG (and wasn't there an atrocious end zone drop too?) which allowed the Patriots to make it to the SB. Maybe the Ravens would have won against the Giants? I just can't dismiss luck altogether but as I said I would never say that it was all luck or even mostly luck.
So now every dropped pass is magic luck? That stuff is going to happen every single game. I'm sure Jets opponents have dropped passes before, too.

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08-30-2013, 04:58 PM
  #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
The 2007 Giants had beat a better team in the 18-0 Patriots. But I don't think any of the other teams they beat along the way were better. So, really only the SB itself was an upset. Remember they lost to the Patriots by only 3 points in week 17.

In 2007, Despite the 9-7 record, that was a year where the Giants were quite healthy and, in my opinion, were the best team going into the postseason. So I wouldn't call that one an upset. They had beat the Patriots that season already.

I'd be thrilled if the Jets beat the Cowboys or Eagles in the Super Bowl, incidentally.
Me too.

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08-30-2013, 04:59 PM
  #675
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If there's been any luck for the Giants it was picking 4th in 2004 and still ending up with the #1 pick and by far the draft's best player. Since then, it's largely been that player, not luck.

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